Screen Tablet malarky => Monitors => Topic started by: Clutter on November 26, 2007, 02:24:41 PM

Title: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Clutter on November 26, 2007, 02:24:41 PM
I've been digging around in this forum for a while, and eventually came to the conclusion to give building a cintiq myself a chance.

Thus being I've been searching eBay for the past week or so looking for a deal on a tablet. And amongst hopping around different links and checking sources and such I stumbled upon this little number from Proview:

But the thing that is most incredulous is the fact that it is selling for a mere $550 on some sites.

Of course skeptical I went in search of reviews, but either no one knows about it, it just came out, or it sucks so bad that no one has ever bought it.

I don't know much as far as what to look for if it's really all that great, so I thought I'd come and ask the experts.

(I don't know if this is the place for this topic, but I figured it fit the description of a monitor. So sorry if this is misplaced.)

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Chems on November 26, 2007, 02:48:42 PM
It does actually sound quite good, an if its about 500 US dollars it would work out to about 300 in british money. I may be tempted!

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: AndreZX on November 26, 2007, 03:06:03 PM
Can you post some links of where you found it so cheap? I only found a couple places selling them, and they wanted around $670 for them.

Thanks! And great find! I'm sorely tempted to buy one, though I may have to wait until after the holidays.


Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2007, 07:53:59 PM
well  price is not a big worry to me what I look for in a tablet is the work area / pen...

First off the proview has 1,025 levels of presser vs wacom 18x has 512 not a BIG deal but still second. Wacom pen has no battrie pro view uses AAA. Again not a big deal but with out seeing reviews of the proview I would still buy a wacom any day over can get cintiq 15/18x on ebay from 500-800 pounds some times cheaper I got mine for 100 euro like 70 pounds. Wacom JUST makes tablets so they know what to do.

I guess it' really up to you I trust wacom with my money any day. As for the proview only time will tell I have seen lots of diffrent screen/tablets things and none but wacom work how I want them. To pens with bats i find feel very heavy so you really start to feel it after about 20 mins work.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Clutter on November 26, 2007, 08:56:51 PM

I agree with you Geo, except for the point that money isn't a big worry. I just don't have 1,500+ USD to drop on a drawing utility (why I'm here in the first place), and I'm not the most awesome ebay prowler. So to me, it's worth it to deal with some sketchiness rather than having to forfeit my college education haha.

That being said, I don't want to get something that's cheaper with drivers that make your lines fly off screen every other stroke.

All in all, $550 is still a good chunk of change to me, so I think it may serve well for me to wait for those reviews, regardless of how my wallet hand itches.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Geo on November 27, 2007, 12:00:34 AM
By money I mean if I need it for work and can make money using it I would pay more for a brand I trust. If its for a hobbie then yes money dose matter because you will not get the money back...The old "spend money to make money"

If your going to college maybe look into laptops with tablets in the screen that use the wacom digitizer. Its a computer you can draw on take notes with keep in your bag. but you have to look out some laptops do use wacom digitizers but sux ass to draw on because they don't use presse/tilt stuff  they are made for writing on and I seen them on ebay for about 500 or less if you buy old like 800 mhz ones. Slow but for drawing dose the job just don't use 100 of filters or run at 3000x3000. This is only an idea my self I would not use one unless I was on the go a lot.

Also there... there is MANY other kinds of screens like your looking at  ( NOT REALLY A TABLET )

No idea if they are any good. It just shows that lots of people try to copy wacom but wacom is still KING among the pros ^^ sorry this post kind of went off topic

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: AndreZX on November 27, 2007, 12:59:00 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here.   ;D

True, Wacom is still king among pros. But after 20+ years with no real competition, are they still king because they're so much greater? Or are they still king because these are still fairly big-ticket items and the vast majority of of people are afraid of spending their money on an unknown upstart brand?

Like you said, you've never tried it, but you've still got a preference. I have a feeling a lot of people feel the same way, without ever having tried it. At this point, the competition's tablet is still on the losing end without ever having been used for anyone to see for themselves. It's 100% the brand recognition factor.

For a long time Intel was King among computer processors. Then AMD hit a streak where their processors were better, faster, cooler, and cheaper than Intel's, and still many people wouldn't buy them because Intel was the brand they knew. Same thing.

I'm not saying these are better than or even at the same level as the Wacoms. I'm just saying that they could be, and odds are that it would never catch on anyway.

Another thing that sucks is that a lot of programs only support Wacom's drivers for pen sensitivity. This seriously hinders the scope of a lot of competitors, and it's the final clincher in Wacom's monopoly.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Geo on November 27, 2007, 03:26:31 AM

^^ As much as I am a wacom fan boy I would love to see some more companies  really TRY and crack into the market to get prices down but when companies do VERY cheap rips offs like Trust where tablet is pretty usless just like a touch pad on a laptop no real control. I know its for kids to mess about with but still... Wacoms cheap graphire model is made for just messing about I have used my TINY old 4x5 graphire 2 for years and years its ditry cracked and plastic cover has big holes warn  into it but still its amazing compared to laptops and trust tablets i used.

This is really a hard thing to judge because we all have our own points of view may it be price or looks we all see tablets in different ways. But 1 main thing is WACOM IS KING  now there might be better tablets but every one uses wacom so they just give up and stop making them. like Microsoft and linux... Microsoft is king.... but is it better?

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Drewid on November 27, 2007, 10:16:10 AM
Part of the reason Wacom tech is more dependable/reliable/whatever is that they have tons of technology patented up the wazoo.
I head from somone that had worked with Wacom that some of the tablets (I guess the cintiq) have nearly 200 patents attached to them.



Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Clutter on November 27, 2007, 11:32:19 PM
All really good points. Even if a bit saddening. I knew it was a good idea to run it by you guys.

At the beginning of college I did look into Tablet PCs and was close to getting a couple, but people kept telling me that in general tablet pcs were no good, bad hinges, poor hardware, and "the technology just isn't there yet." So I ended up passing.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: robcat2075 on November 30, 2007, 12:03:12 AM
I suspect one of the bigger superiorities of the Wacom Cintiq is that is precisely tracks the cursor to the tip of the pen.  Most tablets track a point in the barrel of the pen.  Offsets make the tip and cursor line up when the pen is held at a certain angle, but as soon as you tilt your hand and pen a different way the offsets are no longer correct.  This is a problem with my Reflectiq and will be with any homebrew cintiq-alike and probably with most tablet PCs. The difference although small, is distracting and prevents the tablet experience from being more like a real pencil on paper experience.

for $100 my reflectiq is very satisfactory, but for $500 I'd want to know that the cursor stuff is worked out in their product.  It it's just intended for pointing and choosing in an office setting doubt they went to the lengths that Wacom did to make a good artists tool.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Drewid on November 30, 2007, 10:18:06 AM
The only way to know is to try one out somewhere.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: AndreZX on November 30, 2007, 04:17:26 PM
I wish I could try one out. Seems like these off-brands are only sold online though, so it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

After Christmas, I'm gonna sit down and weigh out a lot of factors, and see if I'm willing to take the plunge and pick one of these up. If it's $550 or so, it's very close to the range I'd be looking at spending on my 20 or 22" DIY model after all is said and done, and the new one has an added benefit of a warranty, and I suppose I could always return it (even if there were a restocking fee and all) if it wasn't any good. The biggest downside for me is the smaller size and resolution of that 19" screen, but even that is plenty.

And with the tablet in the first link, it did say in the product description that it's suited for artists/designers, so I'm assuming they've got a suitable degree of precision out of it. Of course, you can't trust what they say about it 100%, but they're at least not sticking to the "great for office work" tag.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Clutter on December 03, 2007, 04:19:19 PM
Ok, I found a review. It's off on a Romanian site, so I had a friend of mine translate it. The translation is a little hard to read, but I thought you guys still might like to read it. Though it doesn't really seem like the author really looks at the thing from an artistic perspective.

About the Taiwanese Brand Proview in genere I can't tell you very much, from personal experiencea, because I haven't worked much with their produse. I also saw like you did, some monitors, but only on the shelves and my constant impression was that they didn't shine through anything, especially next to the giants like Samsung or the professional series from Ilyama.

You start the trip in 1989 and you dedicate to the production of the displays, Proview reccomends as "One of the biggest monitor manufacturers" and after I looked over the company's profile, I realized that they really are.  Not really on 5th place, this is clear; it is almost a little white lie. To us though, it is a sporadic presentation in stores, in spite of the fact they still appear in the media of speciality. This…instead of an introduction for the first touchscreen monitor presented by www.LiquidCore.RO (Thanks ETA2U), and specifically Visboard VA1-19b, a impressive display as you will see. Not so much as a monitor, but as prodes with a small other temptation and clear of recess.  However, we want the new one! Anyone?

First, it is clear that we have something to do with a multimedia monitor.  The form of the screen of 19" has a ratio of 16:10, good contrast and brightness (we would have liked them to be a little bigger however, at this price), and the time to answer it is recommended even for games.  Now the problem is that I don't know exactly if they thought about this specifically, meaning games.  Honestly, I don't think so.

Its place if far from the dining room, in the conference room for presentations, in the media, projections (here, I don't stick my hand in the fire because of the impreciseness of the stylus), and even medicine. In any case, yes, super, if you want to make an impression.  And another way you can use the touchsceen face if not in the mentioned areas, considering that it is not a classic touchscreen, with pressure sensors like the Tablet PCs and PDAs, but detection of the presence of the stylus (this also has a battery) and the interaction with this cause electromagnetism, and the surface on which we "magnetize" is made of glass. So, don't even think about moving the cursor you're your finger.  The dectection of the grade of pressure that you are applying with the stylus is caused through the application of a larger tension on the surface, offered by the battery within it.


1. First impression

The package that the Visboard VA1-19b comes in is clearly over the media of the others: compact, with an attractive design, ergonomic (opens laterally, not like the rest of the TFT monitors higher up) and thought for portability – because the monitor needs to be transported to the client or presentation room, right?  As a gift is delivered to us together with the manual, The CD with the drivers and applications (absolutely necessary if you want to use it as a touchscreen), USB cable for the touchscreen's comments controls, 2 SGVA cables with D-SUB15 connectors for the two entrances, the basic cable and box are pretty racy where you find the stylus with the AAA battery afferent and two points of plastic material as a reserve.

The design of the monitor is an elegant, simple and satisfying ensemble, the buttons for comments being positioned down-center and buried in the mask.  When pressing them, they are still kind of sucky, as a paft of a stupid mobile.  With the base of the monitor, you don't need to torture yourself, since it is ready to be set up.  We mention as a similarity to any other behaved graphic tablet Visboard VA1-19b can be brought horizontally becoming a surface on which it is possible to work much easier;  it can be folded to the maximum even in situations the you don't realize that it was once a monitor. But the wrapping doesn't make the merchandise easy to see...


2. Technical Specs.

 Diagonal (inch)
 19" Wide
Vizual area
 410.4mm x 256.5mm
Maximum Resolution
 1440 x 900
Number of colors
Reaction time(ms)
 5 ms
Brightness (cd/m²)
 300 cd/㎡
Horizontal Frequency (KHz)
 30~ 81 kHz
Vertical Frequency (Hz)
 56 ~ 75 Hz
Consumptive power
 40 watts
Monitor WxHxD (mm)
 458 x 392 x 271 mm
Package WxHxD (mm)
 544 x194 x358 mm
Net weight(KG)
Package weight (KG)


3. Functionality and Performance

As we were saying, the stylus functions on the principle of electromagnetism, through emitting electromagnetic waves, offering in theory 4000 lines per inch.  Practically, the large limit comes because of the said graphic tables integrated in the monitor and which offers a resolution up to 1000 lines per inch, but especially for the other factorsd.  The writing speed (which matters in fact, because other latencies still intervene, for example the necessary processes) it is specified at 180pps. The number of the level of pressure is also sufficiently large that so as not to waste your time :) meaning, 1024.

This was the theory, but we all know that any crime is done practically.  We needed cca 35 minutes for a good calibration of the detection of touch and movement. Pretty good... an impediment we believe would be that of the contact surface is a little too far from the presentation (the glass, in other words, is kind of far from the display).  This means a pretty big angle, in the function of a good position, which makes the point of the stylus in front of the place where the pointer of the mouse is found.  Meaning, it is pointless for you to calibrate if you change your position towards another spot / and let's be serious, you can't stay stockstill in a presentation.  So a small constructive and ergonomical problem.

Other than that, the drivers, we still have on CD some indispensable tools. I'm talking here about, first of all, a piece of software which on one superior layer drawers effectively on the screen that which is traced with the pen.

Title: Re: A serious threat to Wacom or another cheap ripoff?
Post by: Switz on December 07, 2007, 06:40:25 AM
I definatly have spennt more then this on my project, but the whole point was to learn!
Which is why I may just end up selling when I am done, idk yet