Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Successful builds! => Topic started by: Kerbec29 on April 30, 2008, 09:23:44 PM



Title: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on April 30, 2008, 09:23:44 PM
Hi,
I am a French artist of South American origin. You can visit my portfolio on line at http://leobeker.free.fr/portfolio/

Sorry for my limited English. I am 61 and livinig in Brittany.

Today I stripped clean an IBM 15" screen. I received it by noon  and by 4 PM it was done. Not worked on it during my lunchtime...
It still works. Kind of a miracle.

I have yet to receive a Wacom UD 1212 A4 tablet. It cames from Holland.

A few pictures of my Bongtiq in progress :

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/IMG_5217.jpg)
First connection to test. As you see, the high part of the screen is darker than the lower part. Same thing with a brand new 19" of Dell just purchased...  ??? Don't know if that's a fashion or a defect...

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/IMG_5219.jpg)

The transformator is well outside the body of the screen, like recomended !

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/IMG_5230.jpg)

The FFCable looks VERY small. Thanks to Bongo I managed to unlock the socket really beautifully. A door type of lock.

 I wonder if the extension from diy-Beamer is really  necessary. It seems feasible to glide a wacom board  between the FFC cable and the LCD diffuser. That will generate interferences, maybe ?

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/IMG_5232.jpg)

I spend most of my time trying to undo the metallic shielding. Very hard. But most of all, it let the plastic frame really spineless...
The neons tend to take sail at every movement. I had to add two screws to secure them in place.

Hope my wacom will still work at a distance of 12 mm to the stylus tip -shielding of the screen still to come !-

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/IMG_5233.jpg)

Et voilà !

Thanks everybody for the input !

As we say in Brittany: "You rock!"

The rest will follow as soon as the wacom arrives...






Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 01, 2008, 03:17:13 AM
Bienvenue.  Je parle un peu francais.


Yeah, the only thing about the sliding the wacom is that when you get it you will see that the active area is 12x12. The whole circuit board however is 16x16.  So, unless you want to have a large dead area, you will not be able to just slide it in.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 01, 2008, 12:46:47 PM
Merci Switz !

That makes sense, yes...

Diy-Beamer here I come !

In that case, I will probably have to extend a lot of cables !


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 02, 2008, 09:54:59 AM
Hey!The Diy-beamer site is out of order !

Here is the ffc I have to extend :

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/Beamer%20005.jpg)

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/Beamer%20002.jpg)

And this other guy. Does anybody know if there are extensions for it at diy-beamer ?


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 02, 2008, 01:13:11 PM
I don't think I've seen extensions for the second one. It's a lot of soldering to extend it yourself, but at least you only have to do it once.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 02, 2008, 02:39:42 PM
Yeap!
Thanks, Drew.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 06, 2008, 04:20:04 PM
Hi all!
Nice to see here that I'm not the only french speaking guy here!
Swits also speak a little french. Coool!

Bonne chance @ Kerbec29 for your build!

Happy!
colinus


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 06, 2008, 05:32:09 PM
Salut Colinus !

Thanks for your wishes !

Same for you! You are doing a great job. Very ambitious! Clean work.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 06, 2008, 06:37:15 PM
Salut Colinus !

Thanks for your wishes !

Same for you! You are doing a great job. Very ambitious! Clean work.

Thks!
It's better to start with an ambitious project, in order to obtain a "good" result, nope?  ;D


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 07, 2008, 12:53:37 AM
Shure.
But here I am just the servant of my inner impulses. A victim of a strange fever Drew invented. I am not able to resist the urge to have this contraption finished. Why end  up an illustration with the old pencil and ink method? Let the publisher just wait a little more. Maybe my tablet will arrive tomorrow and I will finish the build tomorrow night... And the illustration the day after... In my new Bongtiq!


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 11, 2008, 10:40:19 PM
Well, load of news. Received everything. Diy Beamer ffc, tablet. Spend a lot of time extending a cable of the screen. Screen works ok. Tablet too. Except when they are together the table don't react in a two inches central column. Impossible to make the cursor coincide with the stylus too. Need a USB adapte: at this moment my build squats my wife's tabletop.

LCD display seems to fragile for stylus. Need to find a solution for that too.

Anyway

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/DrewRocks%20001.jpg)

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/DrewRocks%20004.jpg)






Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 12, 2008, 10:43:25 PM
The problem with the two inches column was solved with a bit of French cuisine : aluminium foil and plastic transparent film to isolate one of the two flaps of electronics that hangs from the screen.  ;)

The coincidence between the cursor and the stylus is better after a lot of fiddling with the wacom control panel's interface.

Tomorrow I will make a try with a glass frame to protect the screen from the stylus.
And go out fishing downtown Brest for a serial-USB adaptor in order to finish squating my wife's PC and use my own laptop with no serial sockets.

Joy !


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 13, 2008, 01:31:13 PM
HOORAY!!!   ;D


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 14, 2008, 11:41:30 AM
As you say, Drew !

Still I have to figure out how to cope with the screen’s ffc that sticks like a handle out of the rear case of the wacom tablet.

I suppose I will end up bending it backwards behind the wacom’s board. Trying not to make a crease... I’m sure someone had that problem already. Any idea is welcome.

My wacom tablet seems to have fell in love with my wife’s tabletop. I bought a PCMCIA card adapter (42 € ! almost as dear as the 15” screen I bought at ebay) in order to have a serial socket to plug the wacom to my laptop. Then the laptop recognizes the tablet OK. But it doesn’t recognize the stylus... At each start-up the system recognizes a “new element” : the tablet, and ask me to install the driver, witch I do. But is a never ending story. I have to re-start the computer to install and then it recognizes the tablet and ask me to install...

The wacom forum seems out of order for a moment now...

I have another tabletop wich I could use. It accepts the tablet OK but it doesn’t recognises the 15” screen !

So, I’m stuck testing my bongtiq moonshine style in my wife’s PC...



Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 14, 2008, 01:44:08 PM
search the wacom europe tools for wacom uninstall.  Run the program, then restart, then reinstall.  You should be ok.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 14, 2008, 03:32:16 PM
Thanks Switz. I already uninstalled twice with the control panel. I'll try again with your method.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 14, 2008, 04:44:52 PM
Well, didn't find a uninstaller at Wacom Europe. But I do found one at wacom asia : wacuist.exe. Launch it and say that "an error occurred in deletion precessing of some files or registry". It ask me to perform deletion once again or "check history or delete manually" wich I would do gladly if I knew how.

Intalled anyway and old same routine started again... No pen.

By the way Windows says " Windows wasn't able to charge the pen installer" (my translation from french). Tried to find a pen installer on Windows update, but didn't find one.

At this moment I am not able to uninstall wacom drivers from the Control panel either witch I could do before... "Internal error. Impossible to charge or to call the external dll."

I think i have havoc on the registry. Don't know how to clean that...







Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 14, 2008, 08:52:20 PM
You run regedit.exe and search for any mention of Wacom, then delete that entry.  It should be quite easy wacom will have things arranged properly so it should be quite easy.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 14, 2008, 09:16:45 PM
Yep. it should work with a search in the reg (but PLEASE make a backup before any other operation)!
For my uninstallation needs, I prefer using this: http://www.crystalidea.com/index.php?action=show_page&name=utool. Utool goes really faster than this shitty "Add or Remove tool". In some cases for me (too mutch softs installed om my pc), it has saved me a lot of time, and removed olds softs that the windows tool won't. Give it a try!

Good luck!


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 14, 2008, 09:25:44 PM
Thanks Drew, Collinus. I will give it a try.

In fact since I work on installing that serial socket on my laptop since yesterday I had enough of it for the day.

At least I succeded installing the 15" screen in my old tabletop. No need to squat my wife's no more... I simply reduced the resolution and Bingo !
The tablet works fine in a real serial socket, there.
Time to begin working on the casing of all the stuff.

Have a lot to read of what others did.

Strange thing, you can read the logs over and over again, it's not untill you are really face to face with the problems that you actually realise their true nature.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 15, 2008, 12:40:12 AM
Thanks Drew, Collinus. I will give it a try.

In fact since I work on installing that serial socket on my laptop since yesterday I had enough of it for the day.

At least I succeded installing the 15" screen in my old tabletop. No need to squat my wife's no more... I simply reduced the resolution and Bingo !
The tablet works fine in a real serial socket, there.
Time to begin working on the casing of all the stuff.

Have a lot to read of what others did.

Strange thing, you can read the logs over and over again, it's not untill you are really face to face with the problems that you actually realise their true nature.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, THEY WARNED ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(your reaction)


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 15, 2008, 06:29:09 AM
...
Strange thing, you can read the logs over and over again, it's not untill you are really face to face with the problems that you actually realise their true nature.

Perfectly true!
In my case I have to find solutions every 15 minutes when I work on my project. Perhaps if I were an engineer, it won't happen... But I'm only a mid-skilled diy guy. For now I'm near the end of the back cover phase (I hope).


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 17, 2008, 06:02:44 PM
Well lots of work, folks... I'll post some snaps later, right now I am in serious trouble I think.

See for yourselves

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20017.jpg)


I mean the white one at the bottom, of course. I think I fried some bottom row electronics... Hope it is only bad isolation...


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 17, 2008, 07:17:09 PM
Hard to see, bigger pic please.  I assume you messed something up with the FFC.  Not a huge deal, but it may or may not be fixable.  Turn it off, unplug and replug in all cables and see if it disappears.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 17, 2008, 08:06:37 PM
Thanks Switz,

Maybe this one is clearer. (http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20019.jpg)

I will try to reconnect all the cables...



Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 18, 2008, 05:37:05 AM
Thanks for the pic.

Yeah, it seems to be a cable or FFC thing.  If the cables replugging, you might want to try just rubbing off the ends of the ffc's (be careful) to make sure there isnt any dust or anything.

If not, it might be permenant.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 18, 2008, 09:13:56 AM
Yep,
during my tests I've had the same problem. Finally I've cleaned the ends of the ffc with acetone, and vacuumed the ffc connector, and everything was ok after that.
Perhaps it could be a short in your row / column pcb, I suggest that you insulate it...
Does the display trashed row moves if you gently moves the row / column pcb's?


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 18, 2008, 06:59:03 PM
Thanks for the advice, Switz, Colinus.
You gave me back my spirits. I will do what you say.

Colinus:  Yes, when I touch the last row pcb's there's some reaction at the bad strip level. Nothing great. A black line that budges.
I cheked the pcb's with a magnifier and everything looks OK. No cuts, no shorts... Anyway, I still have to clean the FFC's contacts. I'll post after the clean up.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 18, 2008, 09:43:08 PM

...
Colinus:  Yes, when I touch the last row pcb's there's some reaction at the bad strip level. Nothing great. A black line that budges.
I cheked the pcb's with a magnifier and everything looks OK. No cuts, no shorts... Anyway, I still have to clean the FFC's contacts. I'll post after the clean up.

Ouch, smells bad for my opinion... Did you have checked that the soldering / gluing joints are ok here (in red on your edited pic):
(http://www.racinecarree.ch/dump/cintiq/going%20019.jpg)

The connections with the "ffc-like" brown cable between the pcb and the lcd are VERY fragile. I've broken one with my first screen attempt... So for the second one, they were (and are now) taped with electrical fabric tape.
Give it a check!

In a general manner:
- avoid moving things if you don't really need it
- always triple-check everything, especially the one's you can't go back (like cutting cables)
- always insulate everything metallic / conductive
- always check the conductivity of the materials you use with a multimeter (I've even found conductive plastic tape  :o).
- always a clean workspace
- avoid dust
- and so on....

Good luck!

I hope it's just a matter of insulation or connection... fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 18, 2008, 09:58:23 PM

...
Colinus:  Yes, when I touch the last row pcb's there's some reaction at the bad strip level. Nothing great. A black line that budges.
I cheked the pcb's with a magnifier and everything looks OK. No cuts, no shorts... Anyway, I still have to clean the FFC's contacts. I'll post after the clean up.

Ouch, smells bad for my opinion... Did you have checked that the soldering / gluing joints are ok here (in red on your edited pic):
(http://www.racinecarree.ch/dump/cintiq/going%20019.jpg)

The connections with the "ffc-like" brown cable between the pcb and the lcd are VERY fragile. I've broken one with my first screen attempt... So for the second one, they were (and are now) taped with electrical fabric tape.
Give it a check!
Those are FFC's.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 19, 2008, 08:13:27 AM
This is true, but they are quite delicate as well.   I would say this might be a problem.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 19, 2008, 08:55:20 AM
"Did you have checked that the soldering / gluing joints are ok here (in red on your edited pic):"

Yes, Colinus, They look perfect under the magnifier. I couldn't work on my build since saturday. Today I have a lot of things to do too... Grrr...  I will try to spare some time for my build.

Thanks for the advice.


Title: It's Waterloo...
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 19, 2008, 10:40:34 PM
Well guys, it was great while it lasted.

Today something in my screen's pcb fried.

Real smoke and even a red hot spot in one of the chips' back.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/fried%20001.jpg)

Closer look

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/fried%20002.jpg)

I was looking for the problem with the bottom row. Cleaned up everything. Even plugged the pcb's FFC WITHOUT the diyBeamer extension. Checked continuity and shorts in cables. Everything looked OK. But the missing row was still missing. I was resigned to  mount everything in spite of the row. Then I plugged once again the screen to the PC and that was when the fire started.

I don't know why that happened. So I am a little shy to begin frying another good monitor.

Anyway, here are some snapshots of some good parts of my build that can give ideas to somebody.

At one point in the build I realized that It will be easier to keep the neons and everything in the screen in the original black plastic frame. And that it will be easy to gain about 5 mm thickness on that frame. So I dremel...- Sorry, I don't have a Dremel-. I have an old Black&Decker with Dremel type plugs. So I Black&Dremelized the frame. See the original frame and the thickness to gain.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20006.jpg)

In order to avoid problems with the pcb's screen flaps somehow cutting out themselves, I made two seats for them. This is a picture of them just before gluing. Strange thing, cyanoacrylate glue didn't work on that kind of plastic. Needed to clean up the  cyanoacrylate glue and use another type of glue : Araldite, in France.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20008.jpg)

I decided the better place for the main pcb of the screen in the back of the wacom was when the plug sockets were aligned with the wacom's own.

That conditionned a lot of things :

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20009.jpg)

For exemple the inverter board should piggyback the main board if I didn't want to extend a lot of the cables going from one to the other.

I placed the inverter in a way that I could put a cache over it that I would use to rest my bongtiq. Guess from what I made the case...

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20015.jpg)

Yes, a portion of a deck on my tool-case...

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20014.jpg)

Another point of view of the back of the Wacom.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/going%20013.jpg)

That's about everything.










Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on May 20, 2008, 12:39:13 AM
looks good.  too bad about the frying.

mmmm eggs.......


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 20, 2008, 07:23:22 PM
Wow, that's a shame. I've never seen that happen before.


Title: It's Waterloo from the wrong side
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 20, 2008, 10:19:43 PM
Yeah, Drew, I am a real pioneer ! :D

Anyway, I placed a bid for a Iiyama monitor that ends tomorrow...

I reckon that when I was stripping the monitor off  of all the metal shielding and earthings, I was wondering if It wasn't a bit risky.


Title: Need a fix...
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 27, 2008, 03:29:55 PM
Yeah... I am unable to fech a monitor. The prices are going up. It must be an army of diy-cintiq builders out there in France. They are paying double the price it took me a month ago to have my old fried screen. Yesterday there's one that went for 91 € on ebay!

I was wondering if I could use a laptop screen. I dit a little research on this forum and didn't find anything suitable. Yet I distinctly remember that somebody was doing just that.

Anyone can help me ?


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on May 27, 2008, 08:40:22 PM
Ambidextrose was doing one of those.  You need a LVDS card to drive the screen,  prices of these are really variable depending on the panel you are driving, so you need to know the name, rank and serial number of the screen before ordering.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 28, 2008, 09:25:03 AM
Thanks Drew.



Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: wei803 on May 28, 2008, 12:02:56 PM
Or you can actually get the seller to bundle the LVDS driver board with the LCD panel. They can pre-programe the board to work with the panel for you. Also not to forget they will bundle the correct LVDS cable, inverter cable, save a lot of time to look for them later.

That's what I'm doing, my seller will ship the panel kit out by end of this week. I'm getting the UXGA (1600*1200 px) 15" panel with a DVI + VGA driver board. Will update how it goes, if it is good, will share the contact with you guys.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 28, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
Thanks wei803.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 29, 2008, 11:12:19 AM
Hey Kerbec29, I've found two dell 1503fp here:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Moniteur-pour-PC-DELL-15-1503FP_W0QQitemZ290234190808QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290234190808&_trkparms=72%3A606%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.fr/DELL-1503FP-Noir-Ecran-plat-LCD-15-pouces_W0QQitemZ260245018528QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260245018528&_trkparms=72%3A606%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I imagine the shipping costs to Britanny are not expensive...! I've also searched for a 1503 fp on the "ebay-like swiss site", www.ricardo.ch, but nothing.

While talking from Britanny, I'll come there with my familly for holidays, two weeks in Belle-Ile... nice! I come here every two summers!


Hope my post helps!


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 29, 2008, 03:27:49 PM
Thanks colinus !

I've just had a IIYAMA BX3811U for 62 € a few minutes ago !

Please call me when you come to Brittany. I can show you two or three spots as good as Belle Ile or better in the Finistère !



Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on May 29, 2008, 03:38:30 PM
Oops, I came too late!
I hope this IIYAMA BX3811U (what's for a strange brand name) won't cause jitters! Personally I've started with a acer, and he was not friendly with my wacom... lot of jitters and random clicks. For punition my girl has made a big puncture in the lcd screen! (see my build log).

Finally I've found a cheap 1503fp witch is well known here, and it works fine! Just minor/ close to no jitter when cursor is near the ccfl's with minimum shielding.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on May 29, 2008, 03:54:59 PM
The first Dell was already in my wishlist. Didn't expect to win the bid for the Iiyama. Anyway I will follow the two Dells bids. One never knows...

The IBM that I fried was not jittery at all. When I put a 3 mm thick glass over the screen the signal was still clear and firm. Frustrating...


Title: The born-again French Bontiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 04, 2008, 01:03:36 PM
Well, I'm up for another round of crazy building.

The monitor-- a IIYAMA BX3811U -- arrived this morning.


(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/New%20Iiyama%20001web.jpg)


Good news for everybody :

It doesn't need a FFC extension!


Only one PCB out from the top of the screen.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/New%20Iiyama%20009Web.jpg)

More news to follow.




Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Drewid on June 04, 2008, 01:44:43 PM
Does it jitter?? We have to know!


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 04, 2008, 07:19:56 PM
 With the stylus rignt on top of the screen, not a bit. But as I put the glass between the screen and the stylus, hmm,    a little bit. But I'm reducing the thickness of the screen's block . And I'm shielding the top PCB, wich with my previous monitor worked fine.

I'm reducing my testing a lot, because with all the plugging and unplugging I broke material. There's already the small plug that connects a lot of cables to the edge of pcb of the screen that just broke.... I think it will work fine anyway since the socket is ok.

My problem right now is where to place the pcb's on my wacom's chassis. Mainly because I made a lot of holes on it for the deceased screen. And that position will determine the cable extension's lenght.

 I'm trying to avoid a lot of double soldering too, for the cable's extensions.

Sorry for my English, right now I don't have the time to check it...


Title: Fraggin' neons
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 09, 2008, 10:52:41 AM
Well, I spend my last days soldering an extension of the main board cable to the screen. Installed the three PCBs on the wacom's rear chassis. The screen works ok. No smoldering this time. But only one neon lights and only half of it. I read somewhere here that the cable extension of the neons is tricky. Will see of that. Hope is not the inverter board...


Title: Re: Fraggin' neons
Post by: colinus on June 09, 2008, 12:04:07 PM
... But only one neon lights and only half of it. I read somewhere here that the cable extension of the neons is tricky. Will see of that. Hope is not the inverter board...

Oooh! The FFC cable extension is a nightmare... in my build I've tested everything to extend these cable, with no success. I've finally re-soldered the original ffc cables, and extended the ribbon cable that goes from pcb to the inverter with no problem.

With my previous screen I've extended the ffc cables with thin sillicon cables, and the result was a dimmer backlight and a inverter overheat.

A friend has said me that the inverter itself is tuned to the exact cable resistance, that's why we can't extend / shorten it, even with the same wire gauge / material (tin or copper usually).

I've managed my chassis arrangement in order to keep the inverter at the same place than in it's original position. It was difficult but not impossible. I've just drilled a hole in the wacom board to have a smooth wire arrangement.

Good luck my friend!!


Title: Those friggin' neon'scables
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 09, 2008, 01:08:29 PM
Hmmm... Thanks Colinus !

I think I'll do as you suggest.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 10, 2008, 12:10:34 AM
SUCCESS!
At least partial. The screen works again ! It was your method, Colinus. Thanks.
Tomorrow, er... Later in the morning I will try to replug the tablet and the screen to the only working computer in the house that accepts them: my wife's. 


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on June 10, 2008, 08:05:43 AM
SUCCESS!
At least partial. The screen works again ! It was your method, Colinus. Thanks.
Tomorrow, er... Later in the morning I will try to replug the tablet and the screen to the only working computer in the house that accepts them: my wife's. 

Happy to know that my poor knowledge and experiments are helpful to you!
For my build I've also noticed an increased jitter when my pcb's became hot, that's why I've added a fan ventilation system to my chassis. I've also shielded the inner of my back pvc cover, that was really helpful!
This is my jitter now:
(http://www.racinecarree.ch/dump/cintiq/jitter2.gif)
Nothing terrible as you see, but I can't totally remove it.

Beware of where you plug you tablet on your wife, sometimes they don't like it...  ;D


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: wei803 on June 10, 2008, 08:10:19 AM
My experiment show that the jitter on a desktop are more. Where I get no jitter when connected on a laptop.
Could it because of the power source? Anyone with a power regulator running with their PC?


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on June 10, 2008, 08:12:22 AM
My experiment show that the jitter on a desktop are more. Where I get no jitter when connected on a laptop.
Could it because of the power source? Anyone with a power regulator running with their PC?

Oh oh, interesting solution.... But I have an APC regulator that power my pc... I'll give it a try with my waio laptop.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: wei803 on June 10, 2008, 10:23:56 AM
I wonder if it helps to use those fancy gold plated cable. Some of it advertised as EMI & RFI shielded.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on June 10, 2008, 10:29:27 AM
I've tested with my laptop: a little less jitter (charger plugged or not), but nothing stunning.

I also have to try with the analog cable from my pc, because for now I'm in digital connection with a *standard* cable (nothing gold plated or so).
Perhaps it makes a difference.

But if jitter is due to electric interferences in the power unit, I had to say that all the wall plugs of my office are not correctly earthed (I work in an oooooold building).
To obtain a sort of earthing, I've had to return the central connector to the negative one. It makes a difference, but it's not as if I had a real earth connection.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: wei803 on June 10, 2008, 10:54:05 AM
Yeah, proper earthing is a heck of headche on old building (heck even some new one).
I'll experiment on that and see what result I get.


Title: the cannibal tiq
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 10, 2008, 08:18:30 PM
Well, everything looks ok. I cannibalized the rear cover of the Iiyama monitor to protect the circuitry of the wacom's chassis. So the entire build rests on that cover.

I don't notice any jitter, me.

By contrast, the arrow won't follow the stylus unless it's really touching the glass on top of the screen. Something not very comfortable to work with... But manageable.

Hey! Forgot how everybody secured the screen's block to the wacom's board ! Kind of a puzzle.

Time to consult the archives...


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: Switz on June 11, 2008, 12:16:51 AM
The LCD? Tape lol.
The driver boards. Some screwed them into the back of the wacom as an earth.


Title: Re: Le French Bongtiq in progress
Post by: colinus on June 11, 2008, 11:26:56 AM
For my build I've cut a sheet of 3mm thin pvc at the exact form of my wacom pcb, cut a hole that fits the lcd / backlight enclosure, and double-side taped it on the wacom pcb. After that, if you turn the whole thing upside down, the lcd fall, but he will be maintained firmly by the glass and the front protection thing.

The only problem I have is that pvc is heat-sensitive, and it expands a little bit (1,5 mm) when my ccfl's became hot (after 1/2 hour). But nothing to give you a brainstorm. Perhaps I sould have used another material like hard cardboard or so...

By contrast, the arrow won't follow the stylus unless it's really touching the glass on top of the screen. Something not very comfortable to work with... But manageable.

Could it be due to the pc where you connect it? Too slow machine? Personally I had this problem with my old laptop. But its strange that when you pen is toutching the glass, it works ok... Tried without the glass?




Title: The French Cannibal-tiq in progress
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 11, 2008, 10:28:20 PM
Well, I have enough of soldering and extending cables...
But everything runs smooth.
Today I secure taped the LCD and rear lighting to the wacom's board. But realized that I had to extend the monitor's control pcb cables.

Tomorrow I will make the hole in the Wacom's cover.

Last test is OK. No jitter at ALL ! But lot of parasite shadow black pixels at the side of my lines. Somebody had that problem too.

I had some hairs on the arm burned by a 12 V discharge. I think I will have to study the earthing question someday soon.

No element seems to heat particulary. But after  a 10 minutes test, a groan began to pump up from the computer speakers. And the sensitivity of the stylus began to decrease. Maybe it's a too old PC... Anyway I'm waiting for a new Dell desktop.

Gosh is a heavy and ugly Cannibal-tiq I'm making !

A Frankenstiq ?





Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 12, 2008, 05:42:33 PM
(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/Final%20Frankenstiq%20001.jpg)

The Frankenstiq at its less photogenic side.

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/Final%20Frankenstiq%20004.jpg)

Still having the phantom black pixels shadow line. Not always.

After about 15 minutes use, the computer's speakers begin roaring. It stops when I put the lcd off.

And I finally experienced some jittering! At the bottom right corner. Not a problem for me.

Have to test it for a longer period. And do some finishing work.



Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on June 12, 2008, 10:57:36 PM
Creative use of a carved up monitorcasing there.  I like your thinking.  ;D
I wonder is earthing might solve the speaker problem? or perhaps it's something heating up?


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Switz on June 13, 2008, 03:14:34 AM
And I finally experienced some jittering! At the bottom right corner. Not a problem for me.
That exclamation point makes it seem like you are almost happy you have jitter lol


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 13, 2008, 08:08:37 AM
Quote
"Ajavascript:void(0);
Smileynd I finally experienced some jittering! At the bottom right corner. Not a problem for me."
That exclamation point makes it seem like you are almost happy you have jitter lol

Right on target. I was beggining to think I wasn't like everybody... :D


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 13, 2008, 08:19:54 AM
Quote
or perhaps it's something heating up?

Yeap... It should be the neon's inverter pcb. I must add a fan to test... Considering changing to a led backlight.

The jittering occurs on both sides of the lcd.
I think that clearly points to the tin neon's casing as a culprit.



Title: The fiteen minutes Frankenstiq
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 14, 2008, 03:24:21 PM
Well, added a fan to the neon's pcb.
Nothing changed except that when I touch it it doesn't burn and there's a lot more of noise from the fan. Added a lot of aluminium foil too, to that pcb.
The noise from the speakers starts after 15 minutes. And simultaneously the pointer begins to refuse to follow the stylus.

Ideas anyone ? Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on June 14, 2008, 08:13:28 PM
I wonder if it is a capaticor building up a charge very slowly.  Anyone who knows what they are talking about it know if that sounds feasable?

So if you unplug it for a few seconds can you re-plug and carry on again?


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 15, 2008, 10:26:42 AM
Quote
So if you unplug it for a few seconds can you re-plug and carry on again?
No. Only if I wait a real while. More like it's something that needs cooling... In any case that something is not in the neon's pcb ! The problem with my build is that the others pcbs are really interwined with the wacom's rear case... And it's very difficult to lift the wacom's board up -- because of the shortness of the neon's pcb's cables -- in order to test the heat of the components of those pcbs...

I will end up finding a way, certainly. Thanks !


Title: The Frankenstiq is a neutron bomb
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 22, 2008, 11:09:09 AM
Hi,

some news from my Frankenstiq. I was working on an illustration -what a fool!- instead of DIYing my contraption. Anyway I received my new desktop from Dell, wich was meant to harbor de Frankenstiq, and... droped the illustration.
Do you remember that the thing was sending a signal to the others pc on the room after a ten minutes delay? That those signals were making noise on the loudspeakers of my wife's PC? At the same time the sensitivity of the tablet almost disapeared and it was impossible to draw anything on it.
Well, the news is that on top of that, at the same moment it desactivates the DSL. My DSL modem becames mad and there's no way to have the web again until I unhook the Frankenstiq!
I wonder what kind of signal is strong enough to intrude in a DSL system that works only through cables !
Maybe I must call the French Nuclear Security. Maybe I found a way to DIY a neutron bomb.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on June 22, 2008, 03:12:48 PM
Sounds more like an EMP weapon!  :o 

So something it building a big magnetic field very suddenly after ten minutes of charging or heating. Is it possiblt to try running just the monitor or just the wacom to see which it is?


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 22, 2008, 03:33:06 PM
Quote
Is it possiblt to try running just the monitor or just the wacom to see which it is?

It's clearly the monitor. I have not yet installed the wacom tablet on the new tower.



Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on June 22, 2008, 03:52:58 PM
So the tablet isn't getting any power?


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on June 22, 2008, 04:58:33 PM
Hmm... The tablet is plugged to the tower by a serial cable. And in the serial plug itself there is a 12V input plug wich is connected to the main, but the tablet switch is off.

I mean, that was the blueprint until I unplugged everything.

But yes, maybe I must try if anything changes when I totally unplug the tablet's serial cable.

In any case, when the screen of the screen tablet is off, after a few minutes you can use the Frankenstiq for a few minutes again on the old computer.


Title: Great breakthrough !
Post by: Kerbec29 on July 14, 2008, 07:02:15 PM
Well, it was a swift incursion on my build and the result is a great succes !
I was working on that illustration since I don't know when. Interdicting myself to work on the Frankenstiq. I think I finished it (the illustration). But anyway, nobody works on Bastille's Day. So, I was back to my Frankenstiq.

My idea was to shield every pcb with isolated metallic mosquito net. And re-ground everything.

But I had that crazy idea before I began dismantelling everything.

I have already noticed that the transformer of the monitor was unusually hot.

So, I replaced it with a 12 volts lead battery.

I did it in the middle of a "crisis".

The problem was solved.

I could work longer than I ever did before. No interference, no jitter, no DSL modem turned awoc.

The neons were a little hot, so I have yet to test the build a bit longuer, but that's another kind of problem.

I wonder even if people that has so much problems with jittering should not check its transformers.

Youpee.





Title: Re: Great breakthrough !
Post by: colinus on July 15, 2008, 06:53:57 AM
...

So, I replaced it with a 12 volts lead battery.

...





Nice idea! That give me the idea to try to plug my cintiq's transformer right on my apc to see if it helps my little jitter problem. I'll try this as soon as I can access my apc (kind of cables jungle under my desk)!

Keep us tuned!


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on July 15, 2008, 09:53:24 AM
No problemo, Colinus !
Still there?
I thougth you were in Brittanny ! ;)

I am used to work with Photoshop in two monitors. The better one at the left, with only my document. All the palettes in the other.
I discovered it's impossible with a cintiq ! Of course... Kind of annoying...

I switched the battery for another transformator. I mean, not the one that heats. I work like that since an hour ago and everything is OK.



Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on July 15, 2008, 08:27:54 PM
Hey, that's great news.  I'll add a note to that effect on the end of the jitter thread.

As to switching monitors, have a look at this:

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=167.0


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on July 16, 2008, 04:17:13 PM
Wow! That's amazing... Thanks Drew.



Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on July 16, 2008, 08:48:30 PM
[tips hat]
A pleasure sir.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on July 28, 2008, 02:12:07 PM
Well, I think I finished my build.
Take a look :

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/frankenstiq%20003web.jpg)

The back side :

(http://leobeker.free.fr/Bongtiq/Final%20019web.jpg)

So I ended up stripping the old back of the monitor and replacing it by a piece of plexi: It was annoying not to have a flat back.

The rubber door-stoppers are very good at holding the screen in a leaning position.

The arrow shows the fan I put at a moment when I thought temperature was important. Actually temperature never rises a lot. I will end stripping that fan at a moment or another.

The build is not totally finished, in fact.  I have jitter. I have a real annoying distance between the stylus and the cursor. VERY difficult to calibrate that tablet.

I am a little bit disappointed that my screen doesn't have a better resolution. I think that if I had to begin all over again, I will take a laptop screen in order to have a better resolution.

I think that when I have the drive to do it I will really clean the screen. Those dust dots ARE annoying. In the long run, I will try to strip the neons off their metal casings. Even flattly replace them by LEDs.

It was a good journey.




Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on August 01, 2008, 09:19:35 PM
I followed the method Drew indicates to calibrate the tablet. It works great now !

Thanks again.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on August 02, 2008, 05:49:59 PM
HOORAY!

I like being able to see the boards, reminds me of ORAC from "Blakes Seven", except less annoying.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on August 03, 2008, 12:02:58 PM
Quote
"ORAC from "Blakes Seven"

That's a lore I don't share with you.  :D Being in France and coming from South America... Anyway it looks great in Wikipedia.

"Fawlty Towers" is not bad either.  :D

Hey Drew, I wonder if  it's not time to put my build on the "successful  builds" section.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on August 05, 2008, 01:23:30 PM
Oh yes. :)


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on August 05, 2008, 01:30:32 PM
Have you tried mapping the unused top bit of your tablet to the other screen?


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Kerbec29 on August 06, 2008, 02:49:22 PM
Quote
Have you tried mapping the unused top bit of your tablet to the other screen?

Hmmm... No... Should I ? Why ? There's the metallic socket of the neons in the middle. That's not a problem ?

In fact I am still waiting for my PCMCIA2serial card adapter provider to provide me with another brand of PCMCIA card adapter. The one he sold me really doesn't work with my tablet. Once I have a fonctionnal laptop with a serial socket I will install my simtiq there and re-calibrate the tablet and the screen on double screen mode.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Drewid on August 08, 2008, 07:58:11 AM
It's free to try it. It would be cool if it does work, menus on one screen - picture on the other... Oh yeah.


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: Le_renard on August 18, 2008, 10:38:17 AM
Nice build !
Bravo !


Title: Re: The Frankenstiq --Was "Le French Bongtiq in progress"
Post by: peculiarpatterns on June 19, 2009, 10:02:27 AM
Hey  Kerbec29

Congrats on completing your build ..........looks like its been a long time since youve been on this site but by the looks of it you had the same monitor im trying to MOD myself .....

The problem for me is i broke the FFC (the smaller one you show pictured that you wanted to extend on page one that measures 1 cm )
Would you or anyone else have any advice of how i might be able to get a replacement FFC cable or possibly, you have your old monitor still lying around ??? (i know thats a long shot)

Cheers