Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Successful builds! => Topic started by: metapharsical on September 20, 2008, 10:19:08 PM



Title: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: metapharsical on September 20, 2008, 10:19:08 PM
I've just begun my overly ambitious build with wacom's biggest tablet!   ;D

EDIT: Finished pictures on page 5 (http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1374.60)

If all goes well, I wanna make the case and stand something of a piece of work as well.  I'm building it to be floor-standing with articulation for tilit and rotation of the tablet-screen.  I will engineer for form as well as function. H.R.Giger or a blasphemous reinventing of H.P.Lovecraft as cyberpunk will be my intended design.
I see it now: A cyber-beast-of-burden, arisen from the depths of Robot-Hell... Shackled by serial cables... Transmuted into a uberCool ! human interface bot  !  :D


So far:
  • received my 22-inch LG L226WTQ-BF $140 (curse Ebay shill bidders...).  Tested, works beautifully!
  • stripped monitor, and it still works!    8)
  • placed intact intuos3 6x8 under screen to test interference with no shielding: average from what I've seen from other builds (est. about 10-20 pixels of jitter when pen is near circuits along top of screen.  At bottom of the screen, it's about 2-4 pixels!! )
  • waiting for intuos3 12x19 $350 from craigslist seller.  Scheduled to arrive by the 23rd

I'll post some pictures here of the monitor stripped so you guys can see what all the naughty bits look like...
FYI: Since the power supply is internal and the backlighting (CCFL) drivers are on the same board, this is not an ideal monitor for a build, but what the hell, I'll make it work...
It looks like I shouldn't need to extend the cable which sends the video signal to the big circuit board along the top of the screen.  It would be nice to be able to extend the wires to the CCFL tubes, but people doing this have reduced the brightness of the tubes.  Something with the fact that the wires are carrying such HIGH voltage that it causes them to act as capacitors.


wish me luck!!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 21, 2008, 01:01:12 AM
If you wanna see the guts of a 22" LG panel from the perspective of a crappy cell phone camera:
http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/

Instead of dumping them in the forum, me hopes this is more convenient.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: elin on September 21, 2008, 01:51:15 AM
Awesome!!! Good luck!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 21, 2008, 09:33:20 PM
I'm liking that stand as well.  That deserves honours if you manage to pull it off.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 24, 2008, 04:06:33 AM
Alrighty then... Start polishing my trophy  ;)

It's going to take me awhile to make the stand: a rough estimate of machining time is about 8 hours per vertebrae piece!
8 x 12 = an F-ing long time!
I'll be making them using a machine that doesn't remove material using a conventional spinning cutter (CNC mill), but instead uses an electrified wire .010 inches thick (Wire EDM).
It cuts very slow, but it will allow me to make the pieces very thin and lightweight...

I got my practically-new intuos3 today and promptly dissassembled it.

Two circuit boards: Giant sensor board and another sizable board that the usb cable plugs into.

I'll post pictures if I can borrow my friend's digital camera, my cell phone just isn't cutting it...



Stacked everything up, plugged it in, booted computer and HAZAA!
I sorta have a working DIY Cintiq!!!

I decide to disconnect everything and put it away for the night and I should have taken it to heart someone's suggestion to have a place were you can set everything up nice and safe, and not have to move anything around ever
I am forcefully humbled before the gods of silicon as I accidentally sever atleast one of the wires that goes from the LCD's logic board to the daughter board that drives the pixels.  Its this cable with 27 wires and plastic connectors at both ends.
I was being extra careful removing the plug, but my needle nose pliers slips and I clamp down on the bundle of wires   >:(
I haven't found any replacements online, but I'll be able to fix it, just a few wires to solder.
It gives me time to stop and think about other stuff like building the case and buying shielding materials...  Instead of just coming home from work and playing with my naked-tiq  :D
A small penance to the gods of wacom for my blasphemy...  :-\


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 24, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
Any jitter?  How think is the backlight?  You mean it just worked??????

Those plastic connectors can be very fragile, rolling them out with a scalpel blade is the best bet, checking to find the little clips that hole them in.


and PICS dammit, this is the BIGGEST EVAR   8)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 26, 2008, 04:11:23 AM
NEW PICS http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/
My friend loaned me his super nice digital camera to document the first sighting of this beast IN ACTION!    :o
I'll be borrowing another friend's camcorder so you can see some video this weekend!

I was able to solder the broken wire going to the screen driving board.  I meticulously checked all  27 wires to be sure there were no other broken ones and I lucked out.

I set it up again, this time with the power and video boards underneath the wacom as it would be finally assembled...

No surprise, the jitter was worse than before when I had it set up with the boards off to the sides, even though I had grounded the aluminum foil over the screen driver board along the top.
So I disconnected everything, VERY VERY CAREFULLY.  Then I placed the power and video/logic boards inside their sheetmetal box that they were assembled in from the monitor, and I put the tablet and screen back ontop.
This probably benefited me two fold by grounding the boards and shielding their EMF.

Jitter was much improved.  It's still there, but only about 8-12 pixels at its worst.

Hey Drew!
Tomorrow I'll remember to bring home my caliper to measure the backlight thickness and pen read-height     ::)
I wish the backlight was thinner! The pen only starts to read about 1-2mm away from the screen :(
And I really don't want to choose between an unprotected screen or a Cintiq that doesn't work...  :P

EDIT:  I guess I didn't have something grounded or shielded proper
Read Height with CCFLs plugged in :  7mm
Read Height with CCFLs unplugged:  12mm
Read Height with LED backlighting: To Be Determined  ::)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Rayall on September 26, 2008, 12:36:13 PM
Don't forget, in the system preferences (or I guess for a pc, the control panel), once you install the driver, you can change the settings. When I did that with the iBook the jitter was gone, and there was no lag.  ;)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 26, 2008, 08:27:04 PM
In theory you could polish the front of the backlight slab down a bit.   Oh and do feel free to post the pictures here, there's no problem with space or bandwidth on the server.

There's a thread on jitter here -> http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=209.0

with various solutions that people have used.



Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 27, 2008, 01:54:41 AM
So I take it some of the successful builds have eliminated jitter almost completely?

I have read that thread about jitter (about half a dozen times now...    :'( )
There's a few more things I'm gonna try:
  • I haven't grounded the wacom sensor board to anything -do that.
  • I removed the giant metal sheet from behind the wacom board, do people leave this behind the sensor board and ground it???
  • I have some ~3mm thick copper sheet at work I can use to make a well formed shield around the top LCD board(copper=good conducter, good conductor of EMF? ??? ??)
  • Shield the power supply even MORE!
  • Bury a big metal pole in the yard and run a cable to my ground wire   ;D

On another note,
I measured the thickness of the backlight diffuser...   6mm
I remember you mentioned polishing down the diffuser in a thread, but even if I did that, I'd have to perform surgery on the backlights since they are a fraction taller than the slab itself...
I saw someone here dissect their CCFL enclosures, but I think that was because they HAD to in order to strip their monitor.  I'd just as well leave them.
I could go the extra mile and do like AmbiDextrose's LED backlight driver, as well, use his great shielding ideas...
I think the answer to more read height is in shielding...

P.S. I present to you the EXO-TIQ  ;D in its birth-day suit!  :o     (polarizer set on camera so the screen doesn't appear so bright and my mouse is visible for scale...)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0020.jpg)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 27, 2008, 02:12:37 AM
Oh I forgot to mention some of the things I have tried to eliminate jitter...

  • monitor only allows two refresh rates- 59 and 60mhz, lowering resolution helps alot but F- that!
  • unpluging backlights- Helps a lot with jitter and pen drop-out
  • rotating power supply- can't rotate a full 90deg because of short CCFL cables. second reason to change to LEDs!
OH!, Rayall is right! I forgot to set the report rate of the tablet to slow (finally found the setting in wacom window), will try that tonight...
[/list]

Thanks again Drew and to all the others that have added so much to this awesome board!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Rayall on September 27, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
When I did the iBook, and set the prefs, there was no lag or jitter. But, even when I recently got the Digimemo there was somewhat of a jitter, which was another reason I returned it. And they did not include a driver where you could set your own prefs, don't know what they were thinking.  ::)

They even had a slight problem with the modbook with the lag, but if they set the prefs it probably would have been fine.

I edited this since I see you said you will reset the prefs.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 27, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
Definitely stick the metal plate back behind the sensor, that might make a big difference and copper is a great metal for shielding, or if you use lead foil then it'll be radiation proof as well. (can't be too careful). ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 28, 2008, 06:14:18 PM
Here's the weekend update:

Went in to work after-hours and cut a few pieces of metal:
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0026.jpg)

Here are 3 of the ~12 vertebrae pieces I have so far for the stand.  I might cut the two thicker ones into two so then I'll have 5 and I'm almost half way there!  They aren't polished yet so they look kinda rusty, that's just the way they come out of the machine.
I think I'll sand-blast them so they have a matte silver finish that looks like metal-bone...

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0025.jpg)

I also cut 2 pieces of 3mm (1/8 inch) copper plate to sandwich the top circuit of the LCD.  It helps.  Jitter is down to ~4 pixels right near the circuit!

About shielding:  I put the wacom metal shield back (underneath the wacom case, touching the sheetmetal enclosure for the monitor boards).
Jitter was a improved a bit, but I had problems with the pen dropping out and it would take 5-10 seconds for it to be recognized again...
I took it back out and it is fine again...
I think I'll try placing it where it's supposed to be ;D (directly under the sensor board), before I throw it away....

And another thing.  In my wacom preferences it has 4  ??? pens recognized (sometimes less than four).  If I delete them, they're gone for awhile then, they reappear when I'm not looking  >:( 
Not a big deal, but has anyone had this occur?
Could be my WAY outdated computer with its woefully inadequate 250W power supply cannot handle the extra burden of the dual-monitor video and the 12x19 wacom.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 29, 2008, 01:28:30 PM
4 pens?    errrm.  Not come across that one before.  ???

The rear shield is grounded straight onto the wacom power input on mine, I don't know if that would make a difference.

Those vertibrae are the coolest thing I've seen for a long time.   


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Tanassi on September 29, 2008, 09:15:42 PM
hi,

you have a huge beautiful thing there!  :o
about the 4 pens recognized. i had something like you when i used the intuos A3 in my Vince-tiq project.
it may be dued to the fact that the pen (or any other pointing device) has a unique numerical code that it send to the tablet.
cause the interference of the monitor this code is sent erroneously and interpreted from the tablet as a new device, so the tablet automatically adds new devices when it recognize a new one.
nothing so bad, try to shield more the interference.
beautiful vertebrae, where did you find that profile? :)

bye... Vince


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 30, 2008, 03:43:30 AM
Hey Vince!

It's an honor to have you back.
Now that there's (friendly) competition for big builds  ;)
Does this mean you're going to post in your build log ;D

Many people would like to know what happened with your LEDs and backlight slab...
Especially me... ::)
I really need to do something about pen reception/interference.
The more I shield, the less jitter I get, but the more my pen drops out of range/reception.  I'm grounding everything of course.
I think replacing the CCFLs with LEDs, changing to a thin backlight slab, and replacing power supply are the things to do...

I'm usually shooting for perfection when I'm creating something 8) ;D
It would be possible to fix all those things on the list, but everyone else who has done big builds (You, AmbiDextrose, Artmach1, am I forgetting anyone?)
has tried to conquer all these problems and left their builds stagnate. WHY???
With no answers to these problems, I'm just going to try to decide as quickly as possible, based on what information I can get from the forum and what testing I can accomplish, how to finish this build!!!
Curse the evil that manifests in the ether!!    :P
Quote
e·ther  (thr)
n.
1. Any of a class of organic compounds in which two hydrocarbon groups are linked by an oxygen atom.
2. A volatile, highly flammable liquid, C2H5OC2H5, derived from the distillation of ethyl alcohol with sulfuric acid and used as a reagent and solvent. It was formerly used as an anesthetic. Also called diethyl ether, ethyl ether.
3. The regions of space beyond the earth's atmosphere; the heavens.
4. The element believed in ancient and medieval civilizations to fill all space above the sphere of the moon and to compose the stars and planets.
5. Physics An all-pervading, infinitely elastic, massless medium formerly postulated as the medium of propagation of electromagnetic waves.

Anyways, to answer your post, I'm sure you're right about the multiple pens being an erroneous ID caused by interference.
And the profile of the vertebrae: I created by google-ing pictures of human spines and vertebrae then used that as a reference when I modeled the stand in Maya (3d software, very nice program wouldn't you agree switz?  ;D).  Then I brought the files into the shop I work at and translated them into code for the machine that cut them.

Here's the concept,    roughly 3 ft tall (90cm)  :   
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/GigerStandrev.jpg)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on September 30, 2008, 06:02:13 AM
I did some more testing and have narrowed down my problems/solutions...

CCFL's gotta go. They cause pen drop-out and horrible interference along the top edge where the LCD driver is.


I will probably* order up a MAXIM LED driver eval board.  I've done some minor electronics projects before, so I can connect (+) and (-) in the right spots  ::) .  I'll go over AmbiDextrose's build with Ctrl+C at the ready...  ;)

Big question: I've read the thread about color gamut and LEDs and I'm wondering if people's (Vince  ???)  LEDs were up to snuff?
I could look through DigiKey or Mouser (huge distributors of electronics bits) to find just the right LED if I knew exactly what I was looking for...
More research is needed...

AmbiDextrose's comments were VERY helpful in this thread...
http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1232.0

But what about diffusing the beams of light coming from all these individual LEDs?
I'm thinking: If I could find LEDs that had a wide focus beam, that would be the trick...
It's a shame that thread just ends with only half the answer to an LED conversion...


*first I'm going to try dissecting my CCFLs and removing the metal shielding from them.  I hope this does the trick (doubtful). Because I do like the even backlighting they provide.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on September 30, 2008, 01:28:22 PM
Got to be worth trying the dissection first. a couple of things to be aware of...

The tubes are the most fragile thing on the planet, and (at least on mine) the wires were held in rubbery "clips" with a split in them, so were not too hard to get out.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 01, 2008, 12:21:34 AM
Not really sure if this is worth an update, but I dissected the CCFLs and checked interference.

No real improvement...

And it only took about 10 seconds before the plastic ends  ??? started smoking.  :o
Without the metal to dissipate the heat these things get BLAZING hot! 

I'm surfing around for LED sidelighting solutions.
It would be great if I could find high brightness LEDs that didn't have that dome shape that makes them so narrowly focused...
It looks like they sell monitors/TVs that are able to get evenly dispersed light from LED sidelights, but It of course involves specially focused LEDs and a purpose built diffusion slab...   :(

AmbiDextrose said he was generally satisfied with his LED conversion, and AndreZX's build with LEDs went well until he switz'd his monitor ;)
So I guess I'll be ordering up this if its available: http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/5476

All ideas welcome!
NO I don't want to try-my-luck with another monitor  ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 01, 2008, 01:44:47 PM
I wonder if any LED screens are finding their way to the scrapheap yet.  Possibly look for a borken one in the ex-corporate dead kit type sellers on ebay or similar.  Maybe you have a tech recycling company nearby?


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 01, 2008, 11:27:43 PM
Ok, I ordered that Maxim LED driver, but now I'm not so sure I really need it  :-[

If I just buy one of those LED light strips like Dynam1c did for his build, I might be good.
EDIT:  Just ordered 4 of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230296398946
saved $ with my best offer! yippee only $80  :'(

I know of a custom PCB shop in my city that could probably mount a bunch of tiny Surface-Mount LEDs to a long board for a reasonable price.
But I'm still looking for a crap load of cheap, bright, Surface-Mount LEDs.
I'm lost on what specs I should be looking for...
luminous flux and wattage and there's white, white diffused, clear, water clear, the list goes on...
If AmbiDextrose's brain could just chime in... :P

I'll look on Ebay for one of those LED light strips since the Ebay links expired from Dynam1c's post.
EDIT: done and done!

Re: Drew
Yeah, I live in a big city so there are a some electronics recyclers.
Just called em last week trying to unload 8 CRTs and assorted PC rubbish, I'll give them a ring.
Anyone wanna trade half a dozen working CRTs for a broken LED LCD, hmm?



Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 09, 2008, 02:48:57 AM
Woot !

LED strips came in today!

Wired one up to a 12V DC wall adapter and placed the strip along the diffuser slab.
The brightness is fair with only one mounted.  I'll have to borrow my friend's camera again for pics...

I can press the strip up against the slab and I can get it to be pretty damn bright, but then the ugly dark stripes start showing between the LEDs.
I'm thinking that if I shoehorn the LED strip into the old CCFL rail, that will give the LEDs a little space for the light to bounce around and even out.
All I have to do is cut holes in along the back of the U-shaped CCFL enclosure where the LEDs can shine in...

So... work is ongoing to complete the case and stand  ::)

I've cut three more vertebrae pieces, now up to 7 out of 13
If I ditch this girl I'm suppose to go out with this weekend, I could get it finished  ::)  8)
Ahh we're only young once...  ;)

Anyways, I'm also wrapping my head around how I'm gonna wrap this up into a case...
Plexiglass, Lexan, or ABS (any other suggestions?) would work, but I'd end up with something aesthetically displeasing I think.
All the edges would have to be square and such, I don't think it would match with the stand...

So my idea has been to use a rubbermaid tub lid as a fiberglass mold (just the lid would be fine, but NOTHING sticks to it, which coincidentally makes it great mold material  ;D )
All the curvy lines will make for a challenge.  There's nothing like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
But enough about my date this weekend...  ;)  ;D

I'll try and get some pictures up ASAP if she looks good.
MY tablet, NOT the girl    :P  :D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 10, 2008, 07:57:37 PM
What if there was a diffusing film/paper between the LEDs and the slab, would that help??




Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 13, 2008, 09:08:14 PM
I haven't poked holes in the back of the CCFL enclosures, but I'm thinking this will yield the best results because I need to give the light a chance to spread out evenly.  Drew, I think sandwiching a thin piece of diffusing material is going to just block the light more than it will redirect it evenly...  :-\
The best solution would work like a prism, where by the light is redistributed without losing intensity. I'm thinking to apply this idea, one could probably cut a long strip from a $10 Fresnal lens like this:
                                                 \/
[(((((((((((((((((0)))))))))))))))))))]   This would be the thickness of the backlight slab
                                                 /\
of course centering lenses over each LED would be the best, but infeasible...

[(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))]

You can purchase tiny Fresnel lenses that are made to fit over LEDs, but they're ~$2 x 60 LEDs = $120, no thanks

If my 'LEDs through a CCFL diffuser' idea doesn't pan out, the single lens could be worth a try...


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 13, 2008, 10:13:49 PM
here's a case & stand update:

I cut three more vertebrae, just two left!

Spent a $H!T load of time on the case.
I went and bought a rubbermaid lid and tub. Don't need the tub, but they make you buy one to get the lid  >:(
Of course I failed to take into consideration during my measuring at the store that the screen-driver-board actually sticks out along the top past the tablet board.
This meant that I had to cut the lid in half and increase its height by 2.5 in (64mm)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0027.jpg)
That was just one of many little hurdles I had to overcome to engineer this mold, but I'm confident the results will be spectacular!
 ;D
So now I have the two halves spread apart, space filled in with pieces of 3mm acrylic sheet, and glued down to a big flat piece of wood.  All I need to do before I begin making fiberglass is to exactly locate on the mold where I'll need screws and posts in the final part so that I can reinforce those areas with extra fiberglass cloth.

Oh, I also went to a local picture framing shop and got some 2mm glass cut.
I bought a piece of this anti-reflective 'museum glass' , which wasn't cheap at $50.  :o
On the up side, they let me keep the piece of regular glass that they cut for a test fit for free  :D
The difference is very visible! Rather I should say, in-visible: practically NO REFLECTION!!!
They let me hold up a piece of the museum glass in front of a monitor so I could check for unwanted discoloration or dimming and I didn't see much that would cause a problem.  Just a tiny-tiny-minuscule-hint of rose-ish tint.
The fit of the glass in the LCD's metal frame is perfect.  I'll be using some of the plastic and metal originally from the monitor to give me something to fasten the LCD to the case.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 14, 2008, 01:37:51 PM
This is sounding _really_ exciting.
Another possibility for a diffuser. This is a brainfart, so I don't know how feasable it is.
Take a clear piece of plastic and scratch the surface vertically with a coarse sandpaper.      The vertical scratches ought to scatter the light horizontally in a random fashion without reflecting too much back. 
If there's too much in the way of microscratching then wave it over a hotplate for a few seconds.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 15, 2008, 03:19:49 AM
Here's something that looks VERY promising :
http://www.luminitco.com/index.php/?item=hm

I sent them an email for a sample, hard to tell exactly what angle would be perfect, but this should do the trick!   8)



Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 15, 2008, 01:09:08 PM
Very nice. I'll stick a link to that in the "useful links" section if they turn out to be good guys.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 16, 2008, 03:26:24 AM
So I received a reply from Luminitco.
They sent me an order-form for samples...  8.5" x 11" = $49  :o   Definitely a special order kinda company  :'(
Before I received the email I had a chance to call their office in California and speak to a sales engineer (how does one go about engineering sales?  ::) )
She didn't speak English as her first language (sounded Indian), but she bore with me.  She said that she could give me a one-time discount on the price of a 10"x10" sheet because she sympathized with my situation.
only.......  $100   :o :o :o
Well, apparently going price is $400, so yes technically, this is a steal of a deal.

OK,OK, so this stuff is just what I need, but do I need it that badly?
No doubt, I have plenty of screen rel estate to put up with the inch and half or so of dark strips at the edges.
But then again, thinking of the other people who could benefit from this solution, I think I could cough up the cash, and atleast rationalize the cost if even a half dozen people would be willing to pay like $10 for 2 slices of diffuser.
 (shipping would be negligible, since they're just thin strips of plastic...)

Roughly calculating :
Thickness of average backlight slab : 6mm or ~.25"
10" x 10" cut into .25" slices would make : 400 linear inches of 10"x.25" strips
or 8.5 x 11 cut into .25 slices would make : 374 linear inches of 11" x .25 strips
avg. monitor would need lets say 15"top  + 15"bottom


So, I could outfit about 10 monitors .  Assuming this stuff is as effective when cut and lined up next to another piece (kick me if my fingers aren't crossed)...

I doubt that many people are gonna come looking unless the supply of Dell 1503's dries up  ;D
If anyone else is following this, give me a PM if interested...


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 16, 2008, 02:07:50 PM
Sheesh!  That's a lot of money for a piece of plastic.   I'd try the sandpaper thing first on a piece of scrap plastic.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on October 17, 2008, 01:41:38 AM
Well, I thought I'd give your idea a try.
The result was a slight improvement in diffusion and culmination of the LED light.
I tried two things:

  • Different pieces of acrylic -one sanded vertically, the other horizontally. gave the light some scatter, but dark spots were still very visible.
  • Strips cut from an old headlight.  The plastic front lens had molded bumps and scallops for focusing the headlight beam.  Had a noticeable redirecting of the lights, but wasn't repeatable enough to be feasible.

A different idea would be to desolder all the LEDs off the strip and do a new circuit board where they are so densely spaced that there are no dark spots  :D

Well hopefully its solved, since I went ahead and ordered a sample sheet 8.5" x 11" of diffuser from Luminitco for $50  :-[
I can't help myself  ;D   mwaha ha ha !
When asked why I spent so much time and money on this project instead of just buying a Cintiq, I'll have to use -solid- reasoning :

YEAH, BUT THIS ONE GOES TO ELEVEN!
???


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on October 18, 2008, 08:16:22 PM
You deserve to win just for that quote.


If it works you could sell it on.  Perhaps Tanassi might be interested in leftovers.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on November 05, 2008, 12:56:23 AM
So, weeks go by.  But I'm still climbing the mountain.  Albeit very circuitously...   :) 

I got the Luminitco diffusing material, and well, I'm in a bind.  :-\
no. bind, not blind... but that would suck too.   :P
Yes it works just as advertised. It sufficiently disperses the separate LED light so it becomes one solid line of illumination.
-BUT-
If the film is too close ( roughly less than .125" or 3mm) it does not have any effect.
EDIT: only slightly effective at less than 12mm or .5".  Check out the picture a few posts down.  That's with 6mm of gap.

I want/need to keep the original monitor piece that surrounds and supports the LCD (also gives me a perfect ledge for my protective glass), so I'm stuck with the LED strip fitting where the CCFL tube was, which leaves me a gap of about .2inches or 5mm.  And so, I'm very close to the solution. PUN!!!

Back to the drawing board...


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on November 05, 2008, 02:28:03 AM
Since I've been gone awhile I figure you deserve another update!


The fiberglass mold is finished and I made parts from it!!!
One of them is scrap because the edges turned out completely misshaped.  :(


Here are some pics!
Go here for more: http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/

The mold which is a rubbermaid lid cut apart and acrylic sheet to fill in the gaps, glued down to a piece of wood for flatness.
The middle has a pocketed recess for the LCD power and video boards.
The pieces of acrylic along the sides are melted and bent to maintain the rounded edges of the lid.
Before placing fiberglass in, I had to cover all the acrylic with packing tape because the fiberglass resin attacks the acrylic  :(
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0027.jpg)

Outside of fiberglass piece
that I made from the mold which be the rear half of the case.
You can see the pocket sticking up that I made to fit the LCD power and video boards.
The horizontal bars you see across the pocket are a couple aluminum plates in between layers of fiberglass to give me something hard to mount to.
The other dark areas just surrounding the pocket and at the outer most edges are where I didn't place fiberglass foam material. The white material with dots across it is a foam mat that soaks up resin [ structurally acts like the middle zig-zaggy layer in cardboard] and thus adds extra rigidness, is very difficult to form around corners.  Something I learned after my first attempt...  :-[
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0030.jpg)


(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0031.jpg)


This gives you a rough idea of what it'll look like.  Using the piece I messed up I roughly cut a rectangle the size of the screen:
You can see how the first one I made looks real bad around the edge because the foam material did not want to comply with the rounded corners.
I'm going to remake that piece properly.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0033.jpg)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0032.jpg)

Notice the neat indents in left and right sides for my express keys (and touch strips -if they work  :-\ )

Yeah, it looks like crap right now, but that's just the way it goes with a crude mold like I made.
It should look minty fresh once I remake the top half, fill in any imperfections with Bondo, and give it a couple layers of enamel paint...   ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on November 05, 2008, 02:38:23 PM
WOWser.  That's impressive. Nice update. :)

I was wondering if there was enough space on the edges of the slab to shave a mm off?  Or perhaps on a slope?  Or could the LEDs go above, with a mirror to redirect the light into the diffuser.
_
U           
||     ____________
\=>||
       ---------------------


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on November 06, 2008, 03:27:20 AM
Thanks!
This is an unconventional build.  So I appreciate the unconventional solutions, Drew!
Using my highly scientific instruments which consisted of three pairs of sunglasses  ;D   I precisely measured the distance needed to get a perfect dispersion of light:
~12mm or .5"
Which means trying to cut the backlight slab down by that much on top and bottom would be out of the question...
The mirror idea, if you'd believe me  ;), would be beyond my means of building/implementing.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think I got it!!!
I don't know why I hadn't tried this already.
It seems that if I simply layer the material one in front of the other, it has an increased effect!
DUH!
I'm guessing it should work pretty well with 3 or 4 layers.

Here's a picture of the LED strip:
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/diffuserfaces.jpg)
If you want to see what it looks like with one layer at an ideal distance I can take a picture of that as well, but it's not really feasible in a build...


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on November 06, 2008, 02:51:20 PM
Of course! Genius.   You could even include a layer of clear material between the diffusers, I'd guess that refraction over distance (if you can call 0.5mm or so  a distance) might help to scatter the light more.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on December 04, 2008, 06:30:05 AM
So, it's taken me a couple weeks, but I've made a lot of important progress.

I've engineered a way to lock the screen and sensor board into place in the fiberglass case.
I did this by making four pieces of plastic (nylon), one for each corner of the sensor board.
I made these pieces to have raised edges and 'lock' around the corners of the sensor board.
Then I drilled holes on their inner sides (where they meet the edges of the monitor), which allowed me to screw them into the monitor frame.
The nylon is then glued (2-part epoxy) into the case against the backside of the front half of the case. (get it?  ??? )
This lets me lock the position of the sensor board to the screen and the screen to the case.
I edit this post with a diagram later so you can understand more clearly, because you can't really see what's going on in the pictures.   :-[

I'm currently waiting to glue the nylon in because I just got finished painting the outside.  I've test fit it and so far so good.  8)

I also epoxy glued aluminum brackets to the inside of the front face so I can fasten the front and rear fiberglass halves together.
Hopefully the metal won't interfere with the sensor.  I placed them as far out to the edges as possible, and they do not directly overlap any sensor area...

As for interference  ;D .  I decided I'm going to mount the LCD power supply outside the case and deliver the twelve wires of electricity up to the LCD Logic board using a regular VGA cable since it has 15+ pins  :)

Backside of front face with nylon 'screen locks'  placed in
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0045.jpg)

Front face primed and ready before paint (I painted it flat-black today, maybe I'll add some glossy-black accents later...)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0047.jpg)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on December 04, 2008, 10:39:54 PM
I look forward to your updates, they always give me a grin.   ;D

Might be worth trying the sensor in there as soon as it's safe to, just to see if the metal does interfere.  It'd be a bit unfortunate.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on December 06, 2008, 05:03:23 AM
Thanks Drew  ;D
Yeah, I'm getting very antsy about my build now, after all this work I'd probably have a nervous breakdown if something was broken or didn't work with my design!

Hey, can I get a second trophy for least comments on a build as well???    :D (I'm surprised it's even gotten to 3 pages! It must be the giant pics  :-\ )
Maybe I need to post more of my brainstorming processes and my copious notes, because so far I've just been plopping down pictures sporadically as I get things done.
I figure much of what I'm doing won't be applicable to most people because of all the machines I have at my disposal, but maybe some people can use my ideas in other ways, I dunno...
To that end, here's a quick diagram of what I was trying to explain in the last post about the 'screen locks'.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/diagramscreenlocks.jpg)

The one part that might not be obvious is the part that the blocks attach to.  It's a piece leftover from stripping the monitor.  It's a very thin metal frame and it had some convenient holes along on the sides, which didn't seem to serve a purpose in the original assembly.  Maybe they were used if the monitor would be mounted in some different enclosure other than the consumer desktop case.

Anyways.  The lcd itself, another plastic frame piece, and the diffuser slab fit inside the metal frame.  The lip of the metal frame is the same height as the back of the diffuser slab when everything is in there.  I measured the distance from the edge of the lip down to the center of the holes in the metal frame. I put the holes in the nylon blocks that same distance away from the ledge on which the sensor board rests. Voila!
Oh, I also epoxy glued my 2mm protective glass inside the metal frame.  It made the metal frame MUCH more rigid.  My design probably wouldn't have worked if I had not done this, because the frame was just too flimsy.

I think it goes without saying.  I made a lot of careful measurements of the sensor board and the metal frame from the screen in order to fabricate these blocks.
I'd be happy to share these measurements if it's any help someone trying a build with one of these ENORMOUS tablets.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on December 06, 2008, 02:03:55 PM
I'm getting a bit nervous too as well. That's a lot of metal hanging around.  Could you try it without the monitor? Just stick the sensor in and give it a go on your main monitor?


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on December 13, 2008, 06:36:38 PM
I put the sensor board in and tested just that.  no interference FTW!

I let the paint dry, mounted the metal screen-frame to the nylon blocks and glued the screen locks in, looking very sexy  :-*

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0053.jpg)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0050.jpg)


Then I flipped it over and placed the LCD and sensor board in for a test fit.

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/DSC_0055.jpg)


There were a couple small issues...
The wacom logic board is sort of in the way of the other aluminum piece I want to put in to make an 'X' across the sensor board.
I'll have to shave a little off the other cross member in order to get it under the logic board.

I still have a list of things to do.
  •   ???glue the diffuser material in to place for the LED backlighting
  • Extend the 40+ wires that go to the LCD driver board on top the screen from the logic board in the back of the case
  • Solder up the new buttons to the express key circuits
  • Repaint the back half of the case and mount the parts to attach to the stand
  • Fabricate 3 or 4 more pieces that will complete the stand

Here's the back half of the case looking all ugly, because it's a cell phone picture and because it WAS painted at one point...
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0260.jpg)

The metal pieces haven't been mounted yet.
The diagonal pieces I cut out from from shelf-mounting brackets (for a little extra strength against flexing).  The ring piece is a 'lazy susan' to allow me to swivel the tablet.  I added 7 ball-bearings around the inner ring to support it when I have the tablet tilted-up because the 'lazy susan' is only designed to support weight on its bearings and spin when it's in a flat down position and it would have just froze up from all the sideways-weight when I tilted the tablet.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on December 13, 2008, 07:23:14 PM
So are all of those pieces of metal aluminium?   


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on December 13, 2008, 08:58:58 PM
yeah, everything is aluminum.  Gotta make it as light an strong as possible!

The brackets around the inside of the front case are cut from a square tube.
I had to cut one face of them off so they would fit around the sensor board in places.
=              __        __
from this   [_]  to  [__ <========
                                     /\
=                            sensor board

That, I had laying around the shop.  The other metal pieces I found at a local home-improvement store.
The aluminum brace that crosses the sensor board was about $5 and is 'U' shaped. very sturdy, very light...
The diagonal brackets on the back of the case were 90deg angle brackets for mounting shelves in your house.  I cut them in half.  Today, I will drill holes to bolt and glue them down to the fiberglass.  I'm going to paint the case before I mount them because I want them to stay that bare metal color, and it will be a lot easier to mask off the area on the case than to mask off the parts themselves and paint it.
The 'lazy susan' I also picked up from the hardware store, it was like $20  :( .  But the ball bearings I had at the shop  :) .
All in all, I'm finding more than half the stuff I need lying around at work.   ;) Most of it is scrap that won't be missed  ;D  :-X


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on December 13, 2008, 09:25:00 PM
I'm just wondering if alu would be cause less of an interference problem than something more magnetic.  I know I'm generally dubious about any sort of metal being around.  I'll have to try some stuff out. I've got some alu scrap in the SHED.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on December 20, 2008, 11:53:51 PM
Oh, lovely Minnesota weather!
It's been snowing all day and I can't get down the street without my car bottoming-out because they wait for it to stop snowing before plowing.
I just hope they clear the streets tonight so I can get down to the shop tomorrow and do some work on the build.

I'm sooo close.

I just need to glue the LEDs and light diffusing strips in and I should have my next functional test ready tomorrow!
After all this time building, I'm spasmodic about the final assembly.   :P
everything should work as planned, but is there room for improvement?  8)

I have some small misgivings about the LEDs:
They came in strips that happen to be the EXACT length of the diffuser slab. Perfect!
BUT...
In between every third LED there is an extra gap where there are no circuits or LEDs.  So they look like this:
:=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=:=:=O=O=O=:
I did a test on an extra strip to get them evenly/tighter spaced.
like this:
:=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=::=O=O=O=:
  I cut them at the =:=:= part to remove the extra space, and they work fine when I solder the ends together.  They even have convenient (+) and (-) holes where I can connect the (+) and (-) wire to (those are the colons :: in the diagram).
If I remove the excess board I can fit two more sets of three LEDs so that means 6 more lights to brighten my display   :D  :-\   :D  :-\
Two problems:
I'll have to be all careful about my spacing between the units when I solder them together or else I'll have uneven and possibly weird looking lighting.
And the other problem is that if I have any extra wire sticking out the back of the holes then it'll push the strip closer to the slab and  I'll lose space in that already tight area for the light to spread out.

It's just one of those things where I've got to decide between just plain-old perfection and 'This Build Ownz U !!!1!' perfection...    ;)  ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on December 22, 2008, 02:10:50 PM
Ah it's always worth pushing for extra owage.    ;D ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: elin on December 30, 2008, 06:37:47 AM
This is a beast!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on January 09, 2009, 03:21:44 AM
Sorry, no updates yet :(

I've shelved the project over the last few weeks on account of the holidays.

I'm gonna get back on it soon though, I'm just manic about finishing it...
My mind works great planning things out, but when it comes to this point in the build where I have nothing left to design and it's all just assembly, I lose much of my obsessive work ethic  :)
It's so ridiculous that it's so close to being wrapped up yet I find my mind moving to other things already...   :P
ah, tangents...

I bought a 3D mouse for cheap on ebay (spaceball 5000 USB $50) . It's pretty nifty, I flew around google earth for days!
Works in maya/3dsMax if you're just roughly positioning things.  It would work great if I was animating a character since I could position limbs in 3D...



Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on February 20, 2009, 11:22:31 PM
YES!
Three Cheers for Drew!!!
I was beginning to worry that this unique resource would be no more.

 SO much progress in the time the forum has been down...
This is the perfect time to give you guys a foggy glimpse of my creature taking functional form.
Treasure your voyeuristic position, For to witness this beast first hand, to be in the presence of this imposing grotesque metamorphosis of metal, is to plunge your perceptions deep into the very abyss of madness!!!!

Which of course is where the best art comes from  ;) ;D



I don't have anything but cell phone pics right now, but here's some shots of the progress:

Nothing is welded together yet - it's being supported by a guitar-stand that I photoshop'd out   ;)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0274.jpg)

I got the car exhaust pipe at a local muffler shop and had them bend it -$10
The vertebrae I made in the shop [temporarily being braced to the pipe with wedges of foam]  turned out absolutely WICKED! (some people think I should leave them rusted looking, the way they came out of the machine, they look kinda like unearthed dinosaur or alien remains.  My idea was to paint them black so as to match the tablet case that I'm NOT REPAINTING AGAIN)
What does does everyone here think?

Here's a few more angles of the spine and foot:
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0275.jpg)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0276.jpg)

Here's a pic of the tilt mechanism which allows the tablet to roll from flat to upright.
There's an arched V-shaped piece I scavenged which rolls along 3 plastic wheels I made.  The wheels are attached to a 'hand' and that hand to an opposite hand with the same mechanism mirrored, and the two hands are allowed to pivot together at a 'wrist'.  Pictured is also one of the two gears I made to hold the 'elbow/wrist' in place which allows me to raise and lower the tablet height via the arm (not made yet).
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0277.jpg)

Here's my latest concept. You can imagine how the arms and tilt parts make it possible to have a flat lap height or upright easel type setup...
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/lastStand.png)


oh yeah, here's a lo-fi pic of the screen working.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/840A0273.jpg)
Haven't put the buttons in the sides yet.
Jitter is barely noticeable unless you're using a brush that's smaller than 4pixels and I think can be eliminated with better grounding, read on...

When I first installed everything in the case and turned it on, I got a flashing power light and random vertical/horizontal lines!
 :o
 Actually I wasn't shocked, I was more  >:(  >:(  >:(
I double checked all my connections for shorts and misswirings.  For days I couldn't find a damn thing wrong with the circuits and the monitor shows up in my 'display properties' even.
So I started to poke guesses and I figured the most likely thing to go wrong would be a faulty ground connection...
When I extended the wires from the LCD power board to the LCD logic board there were three! 3!! ground wires in the bundle, and they all showed a common ground with the mounting bracket grounds on the corners of the board.
But I'm not so smart with the electronics engineering apparently...
As soon as I connected the ground plate on the corner of the one board to the other... WIN!!!

I must now make a box for the [now] external power board, and wire the express keys in to the case keys, and put in a few more strategically located grounds and the tablet's a done deal!
Next week I'll be finishing the last few parts for the stand and I will borrow my friend's nice camera to show you guys the EXOTIQ  in it's final development...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: m0x on February 22, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
I'm so happy the forums are up again =)

...otherwise I would not have the possibilities to watch this gorgeous build prosper and grow on and on and on and on... :)

I love it! :)

Just awesome (=

Greetings from germany =)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on February 23, 2009, 02:11:33 PM
I really really can't wait to see this one finished.  The stand looks amazing.     
It's got to be worth a boingboing hit at least.  I'll have to get some donation buttons set up quick ;)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Oobly on February 26, 2009, 05:09:47 PM
Wow!!

This is an incredible build! Can't wait to see the finished product. Rather H. R. Giger-ish. I bet you can't help but feel inspired and artistic working with it :) Truly a work of art.

-Oobly


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Oobly on March 04, 2009, 11:49:28 PM
I say go with painting the vertebrae black. Possibly just for health reasons. We wouldn't want you to lose a foot to gangrene after a minor accidental scrape ;)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on April 20, 2009, 07:42:49 AM
All is well, and I'm back with a new update!

It's getting to be grand finale time!

You should check out the rest of the pics on photobucket.
http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/

Like I saiid, I lost my interest in finishing once I had done all the design work  ::)
Here I am, though, with barely nothing left to build and I'm quite ecstatic !!!
Y'know, the 'devil is in the details', and it took the form of some minor redesigns of the stand.
Sometimes though it can spur me onto a moment of inspiration and the results far exceed what I had previously envisioned...

So here goes    Phase XVII  ver.3.469 revision C      :D

It now stands on its own legs! 
The legs are made from scavenged pieces which I welded a pin to one end, powder coated, and riveted a few together so they'd be able to take weight (I can actually STAND on the heel plate they attach to and the legs don't budge!)  They're also adjustable so I can lower the front end significantly.
 The spine is now welded to a flange that I cut off of my car exhaust (hey, anything is fair game when you DIY) .
No, no no, the exhaust was already off the car  :)  I'm such a pack-rat that I saved it from when I dd my own exhaust repair...
I'm going to cut some sheet metal to accentuate the heel plate, it looks boring to me...

Up the spine, I've decided I'll paint the pipe black and clean the vertebrae pieces to a silver finish.
The elbow and arm are complete, though the wrist and hand aren't connected yet because I need to redesign the wheels on which the wrist arches roll, allowing tilting of the tablet.

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3295.jpg)

Legs tilted into lower position:

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3306.jpg)
A screw on the bottom allows me to fix the leg from turning.

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3298.jpg)

Underside of the heel plate

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3300.jpg)


Pictured here are all the pieces that make up the wrist and hand.  I should have included the arm in this picture, but I'm still tinkering with a few things on it  The big piece with all the radiating circuitry shapes is just for looks, I just wanted to needlessly embellish the transition from tablet to stand a little more.
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3303.jpg)


SO that wasn't all that much to show for how long I've been gone, but I've had alot of things keeping me away from this project.
I'm glad I don't have a deadline and have had some time to mull over my ideas for the stand.

 Although some people are very eager to see the final result, I gotta say
*** THANK YOU AGAIN DREW NORTHCOTT, FOR THE ORIGINAL INSPIRATION! ***


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on May 02, 2009, 09:41:55 AM
Alright!  Just a few things left!
I could just wait till I have everything put together next week, but I can't resist posting an update.

Here's a pickup from last week's progress:  compared to this beast, MY ROOM IS NOT WICKED LOOKING ENOUGH   :-[
The arm is not bolted to the neck, however I've got the hand fully attached to the arm
The tablet has been this far done for a few months now and serves me as the largest screen in the house.  ;D
The express keys work, but I haven't put the touch strips in, that will be some work for a night.
There's a few scuffs already on the case paint  :o  If I was getting paid to show it I suppose I'd have to touch it up, but I'd have to be uber-careful masking off the screen!

I got the best present from myself last christmas. -a matching computer!!!

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3316.jpg)


So here I'm done drilling and threading and bolting together the 7 pieces plus the tablet case-half that make the most articulation in the stand.
Form will briefly follow function - as I'm not done cutting away weight & making the hands look absolutely stunning .  Keeping them structurally robust is a concern, there's alot of force on the hole for the rod that attaches the hand to the arm.
An improved design of the hand now has a finger surrounding the arch in the middle, a ball bearing inside the finger for the arch to roll on, and a slot to adjust the tension.

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3324.jpg)

You don't even need to see her front ever... She looks so good from the back!
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3325.jpg)
I got all the ball bearings from a local distributor.  I probably only need 4 to support the rotation of the tablet, but I bought 7 just in case.
7 x $5 = $35  The cheap Chinese brand are all you need, the good European can go for $20 a piece!

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3327.jpg)

P.S. the computer is an AMD Phenom 9950, cheapy brand 4GB DDR3 ram, H.I.S. ATI 4850 video, Audigy2 sound, and was a slight pain to fit into the Apevia X-Qpack2 Micro-case. 
The Antec Skeleton computer case would look totally bitchin' mounted on back of the tablet!!! But There's no way I could see the stand supporting that kind of weight though, even if I removed the power supply from the case...
Think about though, if I was to do something crazy like try to make this thing sorta portable...   ::)   ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: liljimmisticles on May 02, 2009, 06:35:16 PM
wow that stand is amazing!!! nice job!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on May 02, 2009, 11:27:04 PM
Thanks for the support!  It's been quite a journey.  And the end is nigh. Very f*cking nigh!

I try to be humble, but I also feel on top of the world.  This is by FAR, far, far the most ambitious project I've ever followed through.
Compared to other people's doodles I've see here, I'd consider myself an amateur hobby artist at BEST.  Once I reached the level where I could draw a very pleasing female figure, I kinda stopped trying to get any better  ;)
So at the very least, I seem to have a knack for mechanical design.

Because everyone here is a designer at heart, if not in profession, I hold your opinions in high regard.  So sincerely thanks for the compliments.

-Metapharsical & the EXOTIQ


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: DonShole on May 04, 2009, 11:28:09 AM
metapharsical, this is a brilliant build!!  Your patience is paying off.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on May 11, 2009, 03:58:40 AM
Here's what you've all been waiting for!
I present to you . . .
. . .the  E X O T I Q . . .
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/PA020004.jpg)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/PA020003.jpg)
(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/PA020002.jpg)

Check out the short vid on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt3oybYjvM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkt3oybYjvM)

Here's how the mechanics work. It's really simple see:
At the top of the spine there are gill slits so the cables can be routed inside the spine!
From there, the first gear is bolted to the spine -and the arm pivots at that point.
(Inside the arm are two metal pieces that slide against springs to lock the gears)
At the end of the arm a gear is fastened to the steel rods that go out to the hands.
The hands hold the arches on ball bearing 'fingers'.
The arches are attached to the 'lazy suzan' rotating plate..
And finally... the tablet is bolted to the 'lazy susan'

There's always going to be more finishing touches...
I'm very glad the big things are worked out and I still have all my hair!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: m0x on May 12, 2009, 06:03:07 PM
Awesome - just awesome !

I love it <3


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on May 12, 2009, 08:35:17 PM
The whole lazy susan thing is fantastic.   It'll make it even more usable.

I see what you mean about the CoG.  The footboard idea is promising, it could be quite decorative as well knowing you.  :)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on May 14, 2009, 03:30:30 AM
So I brought the thing out to my brother's music studio and of course he wants me to make another for him !

It should take much less work on my second time through  ;D

So I already found a deal on a intous3 12x19 for $330 off craigslist, almost $100 cheaper than my first one!!!
I'm looking at monitors and I can't find the same one I used so I'm just looking around for a deal.
Dell sells a 22" IPS panel for only $209 with shipping.
Save a little on the wacom to splurge on a nice screen, seems logical to me  :-\
It goes without saying, I'd be giving my brother the original design with the TFT panel and building a new one for myself with the IPS screen 8)
I just hope the IPS panel doesn't bring any new headaches like a super thick diffuser or terrible interference.
Doesn't the cintiq use an IPS panel?

Good thing I saved the fiberglass mold to make another case.
  :P

Mua ha ha ha!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Drewid on May 17, 2009, 01:45:12 PM
It'd be great as a control surface, or even an instrument.
I've used mine as a theremin before now.


 ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on June 04, 2009, 05:01:16 AM
Ok, here's my little update:
Two more short youtube videos uped.
I warn you, my speed drawing REALLY sucks!
I need a camera that records for more than 30 seconds :)

Dropped off the vertebrae pieces at local plating shop to be chrome-plated   $70usd which is a lot less than I expected  :D

I got the Dell 22" e-IPS monitor and disassembled it.
Pros:
  • No JITTER!
  • FFCs seem plenty long enough
  • 4 USB ports
  • Great viewing angles!
Cons:
  • ***No Backlight Slab!*** There's just a 1" deep box that contains the CCFLs behind the screen.  This will not do!
  • Power and Video boards are on the same PCB, this sucks but this doesn't seem to be causing any interference

So what I did is found a broken 22" LCD on ebay and bought that for $5+$15 shipping.
I Disassembled that monitor, and I will use its backlight slab with the IPS panel. Problem solved  8)
I'm really stoked that this monitor is not causing interference, as my original build has its problem spots along the edges.
I'm not excited about building another case, working with fiberglass is an art I have not perfected...

For finishing the original stand-
I Have a design in mind for the heel plate embellishment, an 'eyeball' where the spine meets the heel plate.
Also if you look close, you can see how the 'hands' that hold the arches can be reversed to move the weight of the tablet further back.

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/StandHeelEyesilver.png)



liquid-flame shapes drip down the front :

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/StandFrontHeelsilver.png)


I'm making the eyeball out of one of those shiny globes you see in people's yards.  Cut in half, and cut a whole for the spine to go through.

Ok, I should really stop this insane build!
I'm just thinking I want it to look really nice and then maybe I could lease it out to art studios that want to impress their clientele or maybe one of my friends who writes electronic music could use it as a control surface for live performances.
But maybe I just dream too much...


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Gem on June 12, 2009, 06:04:15 PM
Very cool, I'm always fascinated by fabrication processes!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on June 13, 2009, 10:20:17 PM
Cool that you appreciate it, since my build log has mostly been my one-sided musings on my design.  No disregard intended to those who don't have a metal shop at their disposal.

I could post some pics of the machines at work and processes that I use if that's anyone's wish.


I'm starting to get offers from people to buy my creation.
Strangely, there's one person who hasn't asked me to make/sell them one...
I sorta got the attention of this well renowned comic artist/producer and we've been dating for a few weeks now   8)
She could put this thing to way better use than I ever could...
She does amazing work, but she has very little interest in using a cintiq.  If she does however, she can pry my exotiq from my cold dead hands!     ;D  ;D  ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Gem on June 14, 2009, 05:05:40 AM
OH REARY?  Hmmm...Sarah Morean?  Taki Soma?  Barbara Schulz?

Sorry fer being nosy ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on June 15, 2009, 12:40:10 AM
Well, I exaggerate, she's more of an up-and-coming artist ;)  She's still working a day job...  Her name is Amber Greenlee, goes by the name Glych
I'd actually be surprised if you've heard of her off hand.  But she works a lot and has her hands in everything from puppeteering and special effects to art pre-production on the web and in print.
Which hardly leaves time for me :/   But when we do get time together, it's very exciting talking to her about her exploits.
You can check out her deviant art page under 'Glych', or Youtube the show she does pupeteering/voices for: Transylvania Television

It's safe to say, once she finishes her degree next year she'll be off to LA or some such happening-place and I'll be back to my ho-hum engineering lifestyle.  C'est la vie !

That's fine though, 'cause if I chased her crazy-ass around the country I'd wouldn't get to keep doing lovely stuff like:






(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3378.jpg)

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/metapharsical/IMG_3372.jpg)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: Gem on June 15, 2009, 01:35:56 AM
Looks good with the chrome, I was going to protest when you mentioned keeping the rust but I forgot  ::)  (Im a bit of a quality nut)

Anyhow, always cool to have an artist as a significant other!  I was asking because Im in my last year of working towards BFA in sequential arts, and telling us you are dating one peaked my curiosity :D  So, is yer woman an MCAD student? 


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build!!!
Post by: metapharsical on June 15, 2009, 03:58:25 AM
Yep, it's her senior year at MCAD.  Fortunately she's not the pretentious-art-snob type, she works tooth-and-nail in the business.  She decided she needed the degree so she could take it to the next level.
I've gotta say, it's weird, it's the first time dating someone that I can honestly say I admire what they're doing with their life.
She knows her business well and has an impeccable work ethic.  I didn't know what ambition was before I met this girl!
ok, I'll shut up now  :D

Best of luck in your 'comical' adventures ! 
But most of all, work your ass off !   :D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Gem on June 15, 2009, 07:07:26 AM
nice nice!  Sounds like fun  ;D  Yea, Im in a similar situation.  GF is a photographer, always traveling while I sit here in my little room sculpting and drawing all day  8)

So, you planin' on doing a new model with an adjustable height?  It almost looks like it should be bendy!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Drewid on June 18, 2009, 09:29:26 PM
OOooo. Shiny.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: metapharsical on June 19, 2009, 05:18:54 AM
Drew:
Yes, very shiny my precious!

See, I wanted to make something that is its own trophy  ;)

Gem:
The arm allows plenty of height adjustment... Do you mean artistically that it looks like it could possibly bend and come to life and start cavorting about my room?
In which case, yes, it does "look like it should be bendy"   ;D

Seriously though, there's no way I would want to make a mechanism that could be bendy like that and support the weight out on the end. Way too much trouble.  I achieved a very dynamic appearance with the curves and the chrome.  It's just a shame it's all hidden from my view by the enormous tablet  :'(
Such as it is, I would definitely want to see this thing on a music stage lit up all cool.  WITH LASERS , YES! LOTS OF LASERS


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Fantas-tiq on June 20, 2009, 12:43:07 AM
Great build! Hats off to you buddy  :)


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Patterick on August 02, 2009, 02:01:23 PM
This has got to be the best and freakiest most awesome monitor holder I've ever seen ...

This stand is seriously mass-production worthy


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: elin on August 26, 2009, 03:03:33 PM
That is amazing. I haven't even opened mine yet. I have a cat running around now and am afraid of the pieces breaking. I need to find some sort of sitter for a month or two.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Le_renard on September 08, 2009, 02:26:47 PM
That's great, really love it !
it would be a perfect control surface for me ^^


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: xguy on September 29, 2009, 08:21:11 AM
This is an amazing build, everyone on this forum has so much talent.
I'm attempting a 22 inch tablet as well and if it comes out even half as good as yours I'll be happy (Hell i'm happy someone even came up with this idea).


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Hoitjes on December 14, 2009, 02:25:00 PM
this looks awesome! To bad I don't have skills to make a diy cintiq :'(


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: luxeomni on January 02, 2010, 02:25:07 AM
with a stand like this i ll be too afraid that it wakes up at night and kill me in my sleep.
but its so awesome


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: wolfsoull on August 07, 2010, 11:14:05 PM
wowowow man awesome!! the best personalization tha i see  ;D


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Wence on August 08, 2010, 05:20:46 AM
Very gothic and morbid, yet absolutely amazing! Extremely professional looking build! And incredibly artistic to boot! You win!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Dragon on December 08, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
This is an awesome build.  You say you bought "museum glass" but do you know what brand/model it was?  I searched the term and something called TruView Museum Glass seems like the most likely candidate, but when I called a glass place and told them what I was doing, he said that glass will both scratch over time and accumulate finger prints easily.  He recommended TruView Reflection Control Glass which is only $12 instead of $40 for the size I want.  What do you think?


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: rackoony on April 17, 2015, 08:38:55 AM
Which Dell monitor was used in the second Exotiq build? ??? The model number is never mentioned:

Quote
I got the Dell 22" e-IPS monitor and disassembled it.
Pros:

    No JITTER!
    FFCs seem plenty long enough
    4 USB ports
    Great viewing angles!

Cons:

    ***No Backlight Slab!*** There's just a 1" deep box that contains the CCFLs behind the screen.  This will not do!
    Power and Video boards are on the same PCB, this sucks but this doesn't seem to be causing any interference

Could it be the Dell UltraSharp 2209W (http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/monitors/en/monitor-dell-2209wa-spec-sheet.pdf)?


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: metapharsical on April 24, 2015, 02:46:08 AM
Hello everyone!
I apologize for not posting in awhile. I'm just now following through on my second build and to come back and see the forum still buzzing after so many years is really great!
Ah! so many unanswered questions in my mailbox... sheesh, sorry to everybody.
Umm, I'll reply to anyone who PM's me henceforth...

@rackoony: that dell I had was indeed the 2209W you linked!
It might have worked nicely if I had fabricated a solution to it lacking a backlight diffuser. I would have had to scavenge a light and diffuser from a compatible monitor, which just didn't work out for me.
 In fact, after about 5 years, my Exotiq V1 hacked LED lighting (using automotive accent LED light strips) failed, probably from overdriving the LED's from a variable voltage wall-plug AC/DC adapter. It was also a bogus hack because without a dedicated LED driver/controller I could only adjust the backlight brightness by lowering the voltage to the LED strip. That's not how you're suppose to control brightness of LEDs   :-[

I am now building my second Cintiq around a Dell S2204M 21.5" IPS LED backlit 16:9 ratio 1920x1080 glossy panel with scratch proof glass factory bonded to it. It has some horizontal jitters that I can't tune or shield away, but it's a very nice screen otherwise and I got two of them for very cheap.

I will post a new my build thread soon. But in the meantime anyone is free to PM me if the have questions, I'm glad to help.


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: Aerendraca on April 24, 2015, 07:07:10 AM
It seems slightly strange me saying welcome back when you joined way before me, but what the heck, Welcome back!


Title: Re: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq
Post by: rackoony on June 07, 2015, 02:50:15 PM
@metapharsical:
I had a feeling that was the screen ;D Uh, if it didn't have a diffuser....how did you get the LEDs to work with it in the first place? Wouldn't it only light around the edges if you did that without one? Also, isn't there a cheaper or easier solution like these LED kits from ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/490mm-led-backlight-strip-kit-Update-your-22inch-ccfl-lcd-wide-screen-to-led-/221354178404)? Finding a diffuser though, I guess you really would have the scavange broken monitors, it seems pretty hard to find them on their own. I went ahead and bought a 2209W just for the reason of no jitter. No jitter screens seem extremely rare around here :-\