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Screen Tablet malarky => Build Logs => Topic started by: Jodas on September 21, 2010, 08:39:24 PM



Title: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on September 21, 2010, 08:39:24 PM
Hi, to all.

old 15'' Acer extensa laptop + old wacom UD1212-R = awsome

what do you think? how hard is this build?

some pictures

the plan:
(http://www.imagenetz.de/img.php?file=5094548860.jpg)

wacom board:
(http://www.imagenetz.de/img.php?file=2a4842088c.jpg)

tft measure:
(http://www.imagenetz.de/img.php?file=9b3bea638a.jpg)

Questions:
do i need a spezial serial-usb-adapter?
any ideas for the power supply? (i want an real working laptop with cintiq-feature!)
let me hear your oppinion.

more coming soon in building logs...


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: bernard on September 22, 2010, 06:19:55 AM
real working laptop -- you mean, portable?  Because the screen, once unfolded probably won't fit back into the laptop case and worse, you'd have to fit the wacom sensor board in there.  If you think that it works "mechanically" for you, then that's good!   For the power supply, the UD-1212-R probably requires 12 volts (if I remember correctly), you might be able to tap directly onto the laptop input supply if there is enough current in there.

random thoughts here:
It is very possible that with a little electronic soldering and luck, you can get away with just 5 volt and the sparkfun FTDI breakout board (USB-serial converter) that UnderSampled used.  Does the ACER has a free USB port that you can use? If not you need to add a USB hub on top.  I say all this because I know the board controller a little (did the Wacom Science thread) and if I recall correctly, the 12v is only present to get RS-232-valid signals --  and convert that to 5v afterwards.  I believe the board can be powered with 5 volt if tapped at the right spot. (would have to look again to be sure).


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: Jodas on September 22, 2010, 12:33:54 PM
at first: thanks vor reply!

the wacom board is huge. i want to use parts of it for the case. i know, it will be hard work.

i scribble my idea:

(http://www.imagenetz.de/img.php?file=2d20cb2bd5.jpg)

my asus is broken but asus laptops are cheap. -> i have to buy a new one at ebay.
i use the old motherboard to learn soldering an messure the parts.
the tft is working, maybe i can use it with the ebay-asus.

what can i do for shilding the wacom-board from the laptop?



Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: bernard on September 22, 2010, 12:36:19 PM
I do not understand your shielding question.  Shielding it from what exactly?


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: Jodas on September 22, 2010, 02:54:15 PM
i think electromagnetism. i read about jitter and drops. i don´t want that :)


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: bernard on September 22, 2010, 03:36:06 PM
:) yes. 

Typically you want to shield stuff around the Wacom to minimize the interference between the pen and the sensor (remember, there is a LCD in between!!). That is why you unfolded the LCD in the first place. Metal is like a RF wall thus anything metal on the LCD interfere. Little interference might be okay and have no visual impact; Wacom tries to compensate a little (at least they say so, we are not in a Star Trek episode unfortunately).

The steps are as follow: you first try it without any shielding. If it works, you are done!

---

Note: In your picture, the LCD seems to be upside down.

--

Before going any further I would urge you to get the parts to try it. Sometimes the jitter is so bad that a build won't go. And be very careful with manipulating the unfolded LCD component -- this breaks very very easily, do not fold/unfold too often.

What is the brand and model number of your "ACER TFT"? -- I do not recall Acer manufacturing LCD Panels (yes they do monitors and laptops, but not the actual internal LCD component).  At the same time tell us what is the native screen resolution -- 1024x768 ?



Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: Jodas on September 22, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
its a quality product:

XGA (1024 x 768 Pixel), 15''
chi mei optoelectronics (made in taiwan)
LCD-PANEL-15-0-N150X3-L07

it seems to be a standard asus-tft.

in the next days i want to try out my wacom. searching drivers and put all the things together.
AND i have to learn to solder :)

thanks for your hints.


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: Jodas on September 24, 2010, 12:53:22 AM
DATA:
which serial-usb-adapter should i use?
can i solder cables directly to the usb port or is an adapter essential?

POWER:
where can i solder the usb+5V contact and the ground?
what for is the cn102 port?

IMAGES:
(http://www.imagenetz.de/img.php?file=2ce6d25c92.jpg&pid=)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/USB.svg/220px-USB.svg.png)

pin1 = +5 V (500-900 mA), pin4 = ground

OTHER QUESTIONS:
my monitor is not big enought to cover the whole wacom.
is it possible to calibrating it -> disable parts of the board?


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 24, 2010, 06:35:48 AM
I have exactly the same board. If I recall correctly, the 5v regulator is at the top (IC102).

That CN102 connector is indeed linked to the power -- I vaguely remember it is connected to that regulator. But not sure on which "side".  Do you have a multimeter?  This would be good to test the stuff.

I will have to check my board again, my memory fails.  Maybe I wrote something in the Wacom Science thread about it, but certainly not where to apply 5v. Also we have to somehow compute if we have enough amperes coming from the USB. I can probably measure how much the board is pulling.

*if* you use the FTDI chip approach with the USB direct 5v supply, then that is your USB-serial adapter.
 
If powering that way does not work, then you have to get a "normal" usb-serial adapter.  Someone bought one recently (last 2 months) that works fine.  Search the forum.



Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on September 24, 2010, 12:54:16 PM
Do you have a multimeter?
not yet, but i think a friend of mine

I can probably measure how much the board is pulling.
that would be nice.

Someone bought one recently (last 2 months) that works fine.  Search the forum.
i´ve done that, but i will check again.


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 24, 2010, 02:54:14 PM
you can try to use google search too.  I do not know what happens with the search, sometimes ones works sometimes it's the other works better. Weird stuff.  You can also screen the "last posts" (and do a page find of USB or Serial). 

I think we should build a wiki page with adapters that are known to work.


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' ###
Post by: Jodas on September 24, 2010, 07:54:16 PM
my monitor is not big enought to cover the whole wacom.
is it possible to calibrating it -> disable parts of the board?

checked my wacom and the drivers today. its posible to use a smaler area (15'' monitor). -> cool driver
10-12mm for monitor assembly. -> cool hardware

today i bought 2mm plexiglass and searched ebay for new laptop parts.



Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 24, 2010, 08:03:17 PM
yes, sorry, I missed that question -- you can easily reduce the active area on a Wacom, but the reverse is much more difficult to achieve (bigger screen than the wacom).

Jodas --> cool dude   :)


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on September 25, 2010, 12:58:04 AM
sorry, i can't find anything to working adapters.
some are working others not. argh...

i found some at my local electronic dealer:
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/971791/DIGITUS-USB-20-SERIELL-ADAPTER (Chip: FTDI / FT232RL.)
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/972543/USB-SERIELL-ADAPTER (Chip: unknown)

which one will work?


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 25, 2010, 06:41:14 AM
I would use the FTDI-based chip. But it is not guaranteed since it could have been configured with a buffer I think. (One good thing is that it might be possible to reconfigure with the FTDI utilities.)

Note that off the shelf usb-serial adapters won't provide you the 5v USB power (unlike a FTDI chip breakout board http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=718 - that undersampled used).

On top of that, since off-the-shelf uses real RS-232 signals, you will most likely need to feed 12v to the wacom board. (the 5V injection hack will probably not work since 12v is required to generate the RS-232 signals level).

Onto another note, for the 5v injection hack to work, you will need to also find solder points for a few serial signals. These would be "behind" the serial driver chip. You even might have to unsolder that chip or find a way to disconnect a few traces. So lots of "challenges" to meet here. This is not counting the fact that the wacom should not pull more than what the USB can give you. Do you have enough USB connections? If not, you will need to also install a USB hub inside.

Finding a 12v source and not modify the wacom board is "easier" electronically: but then you have the portability issue, how to get that power source from running on the laptop battery? Not clear. On that note, I saw something that generates a 18v 100mA  http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=460  Not perfect since you might need 12v (and still not sure about how much mA).



Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 25, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
btw, the recent post talking about a working serial - usb adapter is here:  http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1722.0


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on September 26, 2010, 03:44:00 PM
thank you. is this the right one? http://www.usbmax.com/u232-p9_mct_u232-p9_db-9_serial__adapter_high_speed_230k_usb_serial_rs-232_.cfm
iam also following this thread too: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1659.90
and iam searching an cheap notebook on ebay.
any suggestion to system configuration?
mine are: 1,5ghz 1gb ram 15,4'' winxp (maybe linux) -> painterX (gimp)


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on September 26, 2010, 10:49:47 PM
I just did a test run with the wacom board:  I was able to inject 5v into it ! yay!

As I suspected, the injection point is right out of the voltage regulator (left side of IC102, near C106, I hooked myself directly onto the regulator leg).  I also computed how much milliamp it was pulling on the 5v:  ~97.5mA  -- we can say 100mA.  Which seems to be within USB limits.

BTW, somehow the mA reading was also 100mA when connected through the normal 9v volt input power (same for 12v!) (the input power can be anything from 9v to 12v -- and it is true, below 9v it starts failing). That means the higher the voltage, the more "power" (watt) it is pulling. So feeding 5v is more economic than feeding 12v or 9v.

Now my test is not fully completed because I had no PC connected to it -- I only had the little led on the board to tell me that it is functioning and accepting the pen.  

I quickly looked at the RS-232 on the board -- and *I think I was wrong*:  it seems to use the 5v supply and not the 9-12v (!) -- The next thing to test would be to connect a PC to it (install drivers, blah, blah blah  :P) and check if the serial port is functioning correctly with the 5v supply. That also means that the sparkplug FTDI breakout board might not be required (neither the hack to find the proper signals to bypass the serial port driver) and a standard usb-serial converted could work.  On the other hand, the FTDI breakout board solution might prove better in terms of energy efficiency (we would bypass/remove another chip from the equation).  Of course, most of the power is going to the LCD backlight, but hey, it is good to note our options here.

Note: If this setup is to be made permanent, I would remove the regulator or at least lift/cut its left leg -- so we disconnect everything on that side of the circuit -- not sure how the regulator likes it in the long run to be feed power from its output while nothing is coming in its input. Probably not that good.

Note2: when injecting the 5v it would be better to leave the main switch in the OFF position -- that isolates more of the circuits.

[attachment=1]


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on September 26, 2010, 11:17:24 PM
Bernard, u're not a normal moderator. You must be a good friend of chuck norris! :)
Many, many thanks! U are a real powermember...
*Thumbs up*


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on November 09, 2010, 08:26:19 PM
mini-update:

i found this about the IC102: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/toshiba/4143.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/toshiba/4143.pdf)
this is about the rom M37702S4AFP: http://datasheet.octopart.com/M37702S4AFP-Mitsubishi-datasheet-104693.pdf (http://datasheet.octopart.com/M37702S4AFP-Mitsubishi-datasheet-104693.pdf)
and this is about the Eprom: http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/74508/MCNIX/27C512-15.html (http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/74508/MCNIX/27C512-15.html)
i don't know it's useful.

next step is testing the usb-output. i need steady 5V and not 4,7V or other.
at last i have to buy a usb-serial connector. when its done i can build a first test setup and start a build log.


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on November 09, 2010, 09:20:04 PM
Just to let you know: I am currently building a little project to convert ADB-based (and later Serial-based) wacom boards to *USB*.  The advantage is that your board will be seen on the Host machine as a USB device and thus you can use the native USB Wacom drivers.

I am using a board called Teensy (18$ US) which provide 5vcc output (from the USB of course) -- but you can program the stuff to tell the host how many mA you want (up to 500mA I think). You last post makes me wonder if this is really a precise 5V -- but I would suspect it should not be too far from it.

The Teensy has a serial port -- but at TTL levels --  (not RS-232 levels) -- but that only means you would need to hook "behind" the RS-232 line driver chip. -- unless you make the reverse-conversion  (TTL->RS232->TTL) with extra hardware.

This project is not finished but is making progress.  http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1738.msg12302#msg12302  (and I talk a bit about interfacing a serial board here: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1738.msg12398#msg12398) -- Since I have the exact same board as you, I will definitely find a solution for it. (just not sure when exactly).


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Jodas on November 18, 2010, 04:02:10 PM
It's a bit embarrassing but i lost the original power supply. It is fallen in a big black box full of supply's.  :-\
I fished around and found one with 12v and 200mA. Is this the right one?
Bernard please help me. My Princess is in another castle!
(http://blog.mlive.com/manzero/2008/09/large_20080908-thank-you-mario-but-our-princess-is-in-another-castle.jpg)


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on November 18, 2010, 04:15:33 PM
I do not have it handy to compare mine -- but we can just compare the specs.

12v sounds like the good voltage and 200mA is good enough to feed the 100mA I was measuring (anything higher than 100mA is good).

Check if it is really *DC* output voltage _=_=_ (not AC output -- dial up modems used AC-AC adapters so some of old adapters in one's "geek attic" might have those!).

Check the wiring in case it is reversed. To do that, make sure the ground side connects to the ground on the board (ground is virtually everywhere on the PCB -- even on screws I think).   To know the ground on the adapter you have to connect it to the wall outlet (without the wacom connected) and using a multimeter check which side is the "negative" (COM) one. (the black test lead normally) -- you should be reading a positive DC voltage value (not negative) with the black (COM) lead connected to ground. Reverse the leads to see the negative voltage just to be sure.

Of course check the connector itself (unpowered) to fit if it is a mechanically fits first!!

Side note: If it does not read 12v do not worry, these adapters often works correctly only under a minimal "load" (something has to be connected at the other end).

When it works, make sure you take a marker and write "WACOM" or something similar on it for the next time around  ;D


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: bernard on November 18, 2010, 04:17:25 PM
Princess: LOL!!!!   


Title: Re: New Build (with pictures) ### Digitizer II (UD1212-R) + Acer 15'' Laptop ###
Post by: Drewid on November 22, 2010, 12:12:17 AM
Do you want me to move this thread into the build logs?


Title: WACOMUD-1212-R
Post by: Teky on June 01, 2018, 10:31:29 PM
Hi Guys

I have a problem with my WACOM UD-1212-R when i put pen on digitizer the light stays red no response i have checked the pen on another pad i works fine
so i guess its the pad any suggestions