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Screen Tablet malarky => Heyaaaalpppp => Topic started by: farinasa on November 05, 2010, 05:22:09 AM



Title: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: farinasa on November 05, 2010, 05:22:09 AM
Hey Guys,

I have a mystery digitizer from a tablet pc and have some questions about interfacing it because it was not shipped with a cable (I just assumed it used an FFC).  I bought it on ebay and the seller listed it as USB, but had absolutely no other information.  The model number is SU-13W02E-03A and there is basically no information on the web about this model.  The SU5E-13W01AS-00X is listed on www.wacom-components.com as being UART and USB.  The board I have has a 14 pin connector.  9 serial + 5 USB?  I don't recognize the connector on the sensor board.  It's a 14 pin, 1.0 mm pitch connector, but it doesn't seem to be a Zero Insertion Force connector, because I can't find any way to snap a cable in place.  I'm willing to solder directly to the pins if I really can't come up with a connector.  The pins seem to be round but I can't get a good view of them.  I tried prying the chip from the board but chickened out when it gave good resistance.  Pics follow.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 05, 2010, 10:25:23 AM
Is that just me or you have 4 of these boards?

Not sure what you are trying to "pry" -- but this is not a FFC connection and other than the little "clips" on the side, I do not think anything moves in there.

Might be worthwhile to look harder for the datasheet or some sort of specification for this part and maybe find the matting connector type and ordering it from an electronic supplier -- like digikey, mouser, etc.  

An alternative would be to solder directly onto the board (we see the connections at least on one side) ** or "plug" little wires directly inside the connector (if these are holes?) -- you can get "wire wrap" wire that is very thin quite easily from local electronic parts shops or online. (like 30AWG)

Have you looked at Undersampled build thread?  I am not sure how many pins his tabletpc device had.  He mainly dealt with another connector but worth looking it up.  (it was serial).

you might try to email Wacom and ask what is the matting connector type (and maybe also the spec about it!) for this component.  I have a feeling this should be quite standard for Wacom components. I will pull mine and check if I have something comparable.

EDIT: more info and links on this topic can be found here: http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:penenabled


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: parism_s on November 05, 2010, 02:09:14 PM
Don't solder directly to the pins. Buy a used digitizer cable from another tablet PC. All wacom tablet PC sensor boards seem to have the same 14pin interface.

Here is one from HP tx2000:
http://www.pchub.com/uph/laptop/72-38419-9092/HP-Pavilion-tx2000-Series-Various-Item.html? (http://www.pchub.com/uph/laptop/72-38419-9092/HP-Pavilion-tx2000-Series-Various-Item.html?)
and from Gateway E-155C / C-5815:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gateway-B1795050G00004-C-5815-C-1517c-Digitizer-Cable-/360311440923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e43c461b (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gateway-B1795050G00004-C-5815-C-1517c-Digitizer-Cable-/360311440923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e43c461b)

You can find some info about the pinout at Undersampled build thread Undersampled build thread (http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1659.90). However different wacom boards may have different pinouts.

Your board seems to be the board from the Axiotron modbook as this seller (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50-New-Wacom-Digitizer-SU-13W02E-03A-Sensor-Boards_W0QQitemZ400168426573QQcategoryZ3680QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D400159168472%252B400159168472%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4738228908403280562) on ebay sells it and also sells the axiotron's wacom pens. So it must be a kind of usb interface just like the above hp tx2000 and gigabyte e-155c are(info from the linux wacom driver mailing list archives).



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 05, 2010, 06:44:54 PM
Welcome to the forum parism_s!

Hum, if this is really the same component as the modbook -- maybe you can email these guys and ask for cable(s) information and pin assignments?

Well, 2$US is a good price! (pchub.com)  Even for a "try-it-and-too-bad-if-it's-wrong".



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: Wilcorp70 on November 06, 2010, 08:08:29 AM
Based on my previous research into the modbook for the serial tablet conversion, this is definitely it.  The modbook people are kind of tightlipped, a little like Apple themselves.  I am extremely interested in interfacing this exact digitizer though (possibly on a Mac, like the modbook), so keep to it, I know I will be following the progress with bated breath.  All of Wacom's current offerings list usb and uart as their connections, only the most recent of tablets use the usb interface though. 
~Will


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: farinasa on November 07, 2010, 11:26:57 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Is that just me or you have 4 of these boards?

Yes, actually I have 5.  The only way he would sell me any is if he sold me multiples.... Want one?  lol


Not sure what you are trying to "pry" -- but this is not a FFC connection and other than the little "clips" on the side, I do not think anything moves in there.

I was trying to pry the wafer from the sensor board.  I read another discussion on this site where someone had successfully done so.  I wanted to get a better look at the pins, but I know now what type of connector it is.


Might be worthwhile to look harder for the datasheet or some sort of specification for this part and maybe find the matting connector type and ordering it from an electronic supplier -- like digikey, mouser, etc. 

I've looked for weeks and cannot find anything at all.  Very frustrating.

Have you looked at Undersampled build thread?  I am not sure how many pins his tabletpc device had.  He mainly dealt with another connector but worth looking it up.  (it was serial).

you might try to email Wacom and ask what is the matting connector type (and maybe also the spec about it!) for this component.  I have a feeling this should be quite standard for Wacom components. I will pull mine and check if I have something comparable.

I've studied it for a while now.  I actually have the same tablet pc that he is working on, but when I saw the driver trouble he was having, decided to look for a USB board.  The 13.3 inch size was a bonus because that is the size I'm looking for.  I will try to email Wacom, but from what I see around the web, they aren't spilling anything.  I appreciate your help bernard, you seem to be very active in this community and I'm thankful for how you helped undersampled, as that thread alone has taught me a lot.

parism_s:

Thank you for that link.  I agree that it seems to be the modbook digitizer.  I will probably try to get a used cable just to see if it works.  I found a forum post on another site where a guy with a TX2000 had USB trouble.  None of the ports worked and his digitizer quit working which lead people to believe his USB controller had failed.  Does this indicate that the tx2000 digitizer is USB?  You also seem to be right about the digitizers all using the same 14 pin connector, but how do you tell the difference between USB and Serial?  Undersampled mentioned that his board worked fine while accidentally giving it 5v, but he was convinced that it was serial.  Could it be possible for the board to accept both voltages?

Wilcorp70:

Are you saying that the modbook digitizer is indeed serial and not usb?  I also thought that only the newest ones would use USB but the linux wacom driver has an update for USB tablet pc support from 2008.  Also, the tx2000 I believe was for sale during 2008 and was also USB (according to thread I mentioned above).

Am I way off base here?

I think I'll order a cable, probably from the tx2000 and just try it as bernard said, but I'll still need to come up with a pinout to be able to convert it to a usb plug.  Thanks again.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: Wilcorp70 on November 08, 2010, 04:54:16 AM
You'll have to forgive me, when I think of new tablets I think of ones that aren't just small updates to previous models so 2008 is completely correct, the 13.3 inch usb digitizer was first used on the Asus R1E and the modbook as far as I know, I think it was a response to the R1 that got the linux guys working on the usb part of the driver.  The modbook does use usb, they even advertise it in the more technical circles, however, I believe that all the digitizers that wacom comes out with now have both uart and usb capabilities on the same board. 

~Will


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 08, 2010, 06:03:38 AM
On that note, I am working on an ADB -> USB (and later on a serial->USB) bridge for Wacom tablets using a hardware solution. The idea is to use the more recent USB-based Wacom drivers with ADB or serial Wacoms. Ambidextrose is helping out and he has a TabletPC too, so this will be definitely not too far in the list. Nothing is finished yet but there is good hope.

(long) thread: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1738.0


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: farinasa on November 16, 2010, 03:54:58 AM
Bernard, let me know if I can help out in any way.  

I've ordered the cable and need some assistance determining the pinout.  I'm pretty sure the green and white wires on the left are the two usb data wires because they are twisted  and shielded.  Left of the green and white wires are brown and black wires, with red and orange to the right.  The Black, brown, green, white, red are consistent with a USB plug, but the orange throws me off.  Then, on the far right are another black and another red.  They are a bit thicker, which makes me think that these might supply the power, except that they are nowhere near the green and white.  I have also seen pin outs list the usb data cables as green and yellow, which could indicate the wires on the right are the usb wires, but they are out of order and the data cables are not twisted.  I also noticed the green paint on the one side and wondered if this indicated the first pin, but on the opposite connector, the opposite side is painted.  Any ideas?


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 16, 2010, 08:12:14 AM
Good analysis so far.  Your connector there only has 10 pins used out of 14.

Am I right or did you ordered this cable separately, I mean, how do you know this wire is compatible with your Wacom?

One thing to look at is the wacom controller board -- Wacom often have been very informative directly on the PCB. In particular, the test points names and sometimes the connector pin outs.

For example, I have a SU-017-X01  (from a Compaq/HP tc1100 tablet) for which I have no clue what is the pinout (yet). I am looking just now and, after lifting a white "barcode" sticker I see a lot of markings.

There are only 10 pins to that wacom board.  There is also a 14 pin for the tablet, but in addition to the wacom signals, it also feeds the inverter (backlight) and some Ni-MH battery pack that is fitted in the front case.
 
[attachment=1]

Can you take a shot of the wacom controller board?
Do you have a multimeter?


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 16, 2010, 11:00:24 AM
Just a thought here: If the wacom board can both have the USB and UART (serial) interface, the TabletPCs would normally only connect one of the interface at a time, no?  Thus the cables found on ebay would either connect the serial signals OR the USB signals -- I wouldn't understand why both be connected!

USB has indeed only 4 connections -- and only really 2 data pins + 5v power+ground.  Serial ports are different, and we saw from the undersampled thread that we have a full suite of serial signals, (from memory, I recall the following: DTR,RTS,CTS,RX,TX,GND) -- 6 signals essentially (not counting power here).



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: random-jimmy on November 17, 2010, 07:42:53 AM
From looking at the PCB, I would say that the green and white wires are USB +/- (especially considering the shielding as this is part of the USB spec), and that the green and yellow wires are the UART/serial wires (since I think that green and yellow are also the colours used for this sort of thing). The serial part of the digitiser would not need any of the handshaking connections usually found with ye-olde serial connectors as bernard suggested (it just connects the two data pins and that is it).

In terms of finding which serial pin is which, either see if Google can help, or hook a multimeter up to the board once it is powered and measure the resistance to ground and voltage on each pin, and post this back. If a pin has a high voltage (either 3.3V or 5V) then I would say it is the TX from the controller.

As far as the two random wires in the middle are concerned, I would bet that they serve some random purpose - the most likely being enable to allow the tablet function to be disabled, and also a status LED of some sort to indicate whether or not if the tablet is enabled or disabled.


Oh, hi again everyone, sorry for the absence - it seems university (and uni life) is much, much busier than I had at first anticipated.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 17, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
Well, hello back random-jimmy!!  thanks for jumping in!


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: farinasa on November 18, 2010, 07:12:45 AM
I did buy the cable seperately, but I'm pretty sure it's right.  I don't know for sure, but the connector fits.  I was also confused as to how or why the tablet would connect to both, but it looks like the wires match pretty closely.

The connector has a red and black on one end, presumably for power from usb, and green and white for data from usb.  In addition, the other wires match up with all the serial wires excluding the "hand shaking" connections as jimmy said.  The colors even match up (see picture). 

I started searching around and found that the wacom driver commonly installs these devices:

- Wacom Virtual Hid Driver
- Wacom USB Pen

Often times along with others such as mice and virtual keyboards.  Could this virtual hid driver be for the extra serial connections?  If so, what does it do?  Could it work with just the usb connection?  Does any of this information even sound correct?

Also, bernard, I have a board similar to yours (SU-017-B01).  The PCB has VER 2.0 stamped on it.  I don't have a multimeter, but I think it's time to acquire one and I included a picture of the PCB in my first post.

Thanks and let me know what you think.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 18, 2010, 09:27:17 AM
multimeter

You'll want:
- digital
- DC voltmeter
- a continuity tester (beep)

- DC Amps reading could be nice to see how much power is drawn
- Ohmmeter might come handy for reverse engineering

... but most decent multimeters have all that anyways.    :)


A multimeter can be found for quite a bargain -- and I am not even talking about ebay deals here. But speaking of ebay, let me take a look anyway...

There is one darn cheap multimeter that appears to be sold by a lot of folks on ebay -- it is not "auto-ranging" (as in you have to pick the "range" yourself -- that is not really a big deal -- it just throws you back 20 years ago when most digital multimeters were like that -- but it appears to do the job "more or less" (I saw inaccurate readings when compared with other multimeters (http://megatops.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/%E9%87%8F%E5%85%B7%E5%8A%9D%E8%B4%A5%EF%BC%9A%E4%BC%98%E5%88%A9%E5%BE%B7ut10a%E5%B0%8F%E8%A1%A8/) -- this page actually shows the uni-t that I talk about in the paragraph below). Offered from 1.50$ to 12$US depending who is selling :) -- colors and shape varies. I see black, yellow and some sort of glowing blue -- My guess: it is all the same device inside since they all have the same features and the text almost seems "copied" from one Ad to the other. http://cgi.ebay.com/New-LCD-digital-voltmeter-ammeter-Ohm-multimeter-544-/280544204866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4151bcd842#ht_3374wt_960

For a compact model, I would go with that UNI-T ebay deal -- It's a brand I trust (I have a Uni-T Clamp meter myself and I like every bit), it appears to be quite compact, it is "auto-ranging", has data hold and even has capacitance testing (that is quite a rare feature for a multi-meter) -- you might never use that, but I would :)  12$ http://cgi.ebay.com/UNI-T-UT10A-Modern-Pocket-Size-Digital-Multimeters-/260685364289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb20efc41#ht_2114wt_902   The only downside is that the leads seems "attached" to the tester (instead of being separate) -- but I guess this is to keep the thing very compact.



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 18, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Mine is 10 pins -- and yours is 14 pins -- that's 4 pins difference -- exactly the USB.  So if really, they just added 4 pins for usb, then, the usb could be located at pin 11,12,13 & 14.  (you can see the pin numbers 1 and 14 on your PCB picture).  Does that match the cable when plugged in?

First identify the ground signal -- it is typically the one that has the most coverage on the PCB and is often connected to screws and whatnot.  Next in list is to find the power. One way to find the power is to find the datasheet of the components on the board -- namely the standard ICs (Integrated circuits) -- Here it seems that we have two standard ICs and one custom IC (Wacom).  They are marked "IC".  Can you read the small numbers on the IC2 ?  (the one that has 3 pins) I see "LC" but not sure.

IC1 number looks like a Microchip "clone".  87F16C8A  -- the "F16C8A" looks microchip to me. EDIT: I did not find that part or an equivalent -- it kinda feel like the microchip numbering but it isn't.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 18, 2010, 07:34:28 PM
That is a wild guess but it is very possible that the two USB data lines (D+ and D-) might have a 22 or 24 ohm resistor in series before going to one of the IC pin. This seems to be a typical arrangement for USB devices. (but again, this is a very wild guess).

USB D+ pin --- 22 ohm ---- IC
USB D- pin --- 22 ohm ---- IC



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: UnderSampled on November 20, 2010, 01:17:06 AM
Hello,
Here is the final result of what I got when I when I was working on this:

Pin No.Signal Name (Probable Meaning)I/O
1Ground-
2??????
3??????
4??????
5??????
6??????
7Data Terminal Ready (DTR)O
8Request to Send (RTS)O
9Received Data (RxD)I
10Transmited Data (TxD)O
11(GRD) (Unknown Signal)I
12DBGEN-P3N + PLTRS1-E3N (Unknown Signal)O
133.3v Power-
14Ground (GND)-

It'd be really cool if the tablet already outputs USB. Then we wouldn't have any driver issues.
Regardless, these should work if you can connect to them. Note that you only really need pins 9, 10, 13, and 14. Of course it's better if you have the others.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 20, 2010, 03:23:01 AM
Thanks for jumping in Undersampled! 

ah yes, I remember those names -- and some of my (unproven) theory was that:
- the pin 12 could be for "enabling" the device 
- the GRD is for driving a "dual" led -- but that was totally unproven.

Looking at your cable colors:
- The two grounds fits with the cable colors (black on each side)
- if we map the red to pin 13 (3.3v power) then we end up with (this is highly speculative):

Wild Guess Attempt (considering all the info we have so far):

1-  USB Ground - Black
2-  ?          - Brown
3-  USB D+ ?   - green  (twisted pair with white)
4-  USB D- ?   - white  (twisted pair with green)
5-  USB power? - Red
6-  ?          - Orange
7-  DTR        - unconnected
8-  RTS        - unconnected
9-  RxD        - unconnected
10- TxD        - unconnected
11- GRD        - yellow  (Green+Red leD?)
12- PLTRS1     - green   ("enable" or "reset" - active low?)
13- 3.3v       - Red
14- Ground     - Black



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 20, 2010, 04:16:24 AM
Another thought: If the board really supports USB and serial I would suppose it only does one thing at a time.  So maybe there is some sort of USB/serial selector pin/mechanism.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 20, 2010, 06:30:35 AM
A post about the power supply: -- 3.3v, 5v?

I am carefully inspecting the board photo -- btw it's quite a nice photo -- I know how difficult it is to photograph a PCB clearly because of the low-contrast of the IC markings and highly-reflective items -- and considering it has a glossy plastic on top!  nice job!  :)

One thing I noted is that it seems that a zener diode is not installed (labeled ZD1).  That might indicate the following:  considering the Zener diode being in a rather "large" package, it maybe be used (along with a resistor in series) for converting the 5v to 3.3v. Since the part is not installed, it is plausible that the Wacom controller is currently "configured" to work off 3.3v instead of the USB 5v. After all, USB power does not need to be connected -- especially "inside" a computer where you have all the signals directly from the computer power supply.

Note that the zener seems to have a little "k" -- which could indicate the "cathode".

To verify that, would involve checking how the USB power (pin 5 in theory) is wired along with the 3.3v and the zener.  The theory would say that the 3.3v (pin 13) is connected to the ZD1 pad near the letter "k" (cathode). The 5volt (pin 5) would be also connected there but through a resistor (i.e. in series).  The other ZD1 pad should be going to ground.  There is a third pad surrounded with by a lot of "green" which I think it is just there to dissipate heat (that green area should be "ground" I suppose) -- since Zener only have 2 pads.
[attachment=1]

The 5v power (pin 5) appears to be connected to a larger-than-the-others capacitor (C24) -- which could indicate an input power "noise" cancellation -- it is really difficult to see from the photo since there is a wee bit of "blurp" in that area.

In other words, if what I say here turns to be true, you are going to need to feed 3.3v (instead of 5v that USB provides).  Also, it would help confirm that the pin 5 is really a 5v supply power.

 


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on March 17, 2011, 04:59:53 PM
@farinasa : Any progress here? 

I am about to seriously embark on interfacing serial-based TabletPC (Penenabled) boards and "convert them" to a USB Wacom device. (I more or less finished doing it for ADB boards).  I need to find-back what I have in terms of wacom sensors in the basement.

I also need more info on the pinouts of all of these boards.



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on March 21, 2011, 06:37:03 PM
If we find out that this is working off the USB but cannot use the USB 5v (you would need to feed 3.3v), this can be accomplished with a 1$ surface mount part (http://www.pjrc.com/store/mcp1825.html) that you might get away connecting without PCB. (there are alternatives, but I know this one works). Or if we ever find the appropriate missing zener diode to solder on the board or a viable replacement.

I think I will try to get one of your board (or similar) to help out. If we make this work, it could mean an awesome new source of really cheap wacom tablets.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on June 28, 2011, 03:46:25 AM
USB it is! :)

I finally got aroud to try this board.

So that SU-13W02E-03A board definitely works with USB. Tried with the 2007 (5.05-7) wacom driver on XP.

I had an external 3.3v supply, but the rest (GND, D+ and D-) are directly connected to a USB port. Nice!



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: farinasa on August 25, 2011, 07:04:12 AM
Hey bernard,

This project has creeped back into my interests.  How accurate is the pin chart listed above?  Are you saying you connected pins 1(GND), 3(D+), 4(D-), and 13(3.3v)?  Also looking at the teensy now.  If the 3.3v regulator was added to it, would that essentially make this plug and play?

Regulator: http://www.pjrc.com/store/mcp1825.html (http://www.pjrc.com/store/mcp1825.html)


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on August 25, 2011, 08:24:17 AM
yes, it is plug-and-play. Actually, you would not even need the Teensy -- just the voltage regulator alone (or another electronic circuit that can generate 3.3v out of the USB 5v).  

The voltage regulator alone is a small 1$ part sold at prjc.com (it is the one you are referring to).  You just have to connect the GND, the USB 5V and 3.3v spits out on the third connection.  :)


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AbeOwitz on April 01, 2012, 07:31:01 PM
Just a quick note to say thanks to your forum and wiki, I got my wacom board working, at least on the serial side.  :)

I bought a used Toshiba Protoge M200 to reverse engineer.  It uses Low Pin Count (LPC) interface for its serial port.  

It uses the SU-019-C01 Wacom board.

The following boards also work as serial boards and have the same connector & pinouts:
SU-012-X03
SU-035-A01
SU-031-X02
(purchased through pchub)

Have not figured out USB.

Here's a summary of how to wire for Serial.

1 GND
2 NC
3 NC
4 NC
5 NC
6 NC (LED + resistor works here.  Not pictured)
7 NC or GND
8 NC or GND
9 TTL Serial Output from Wacom
10 NC
11 GND (will not work unless grounded.)
12 NC
13 3.3V
14 GND

EDIT:  It seems it intermittently starts up with 12 connected to 3.3v.  Leaving 7 & 8 open doesn't seem to make a difference.

That's 3 X 10ohm resistors there, since I don't have a 33ohm.  This brings it down to 3.0V, but it still works.  20ohm works also, but the diode (1N4728) gets warm.  10 or less and it's hot.  Which makes sense since 5ohms would put it at max current.

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7874/wacomserial.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/wacomserial.jpg/)


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on April 02, 2012, 04:09:42 AM
Welcome abe0witz!

What is that LPC thingy? How did you know it is called like that?

For ISDV4, you need a spot to connect the serial data going into the tablet normally..?


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AbeOwitz on April 02, 2012, 09:43:16 PM
LPC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Pin_Count

On the Toshiba Protege M200, this provides the UART/Serial needed to connect to the Wacom.  In Windows Device Manager, the Wacom is listed as an LPC device.

Not a big deal, the Wacom board is still serial. 

ISDV4 wise, the above is minimal for getting the board to spit out data.  I'll likely need TXD, RTS and DTR to talk to it.

I'll keep hacking at it.  :)

I appreciate your board and wiki!  Thanks!  Very useful.  I hope I can contribute back soon.  :)  (I'm still learning, too....) 


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on April 02, 2012, 10:00:12 PM
You seem well equipped (a scope!) and appear to know about electronics :)  yay!

OK. So it sounds like "LPC" seen by Windows just because it is hooked through a Super I/O chip which is often hooked to a LPC bus.  Super I/O chip is a often what is used inside laptops/motherboards for the serial ports (even internal ones).  Like you said, it appears that the Wacom board has nothing to do with LPC.

RTS/DTR: you do not really need those. But you still need to make sure they are always "active" (not in a state that it will "stop" the data from flowing).  Depending on the signal, either grounding it or VCCing it if there is no pull-up/pull-down doing this already.

I assume you saw our wiki, since you mentioned it.  We saw weird variations between the Wacom boards. Does your board has a vacant ZDx part like we saw on others?

How did you know these boards are compatible?
SU-019-C01
SU-012-X03
SU-035-A01
SU-031-X02


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AbeOwitz on April 04, 2012, 10:29:52 PM
I bought 3 boards from PCHub.  (wasn't sure of size, operability or that I might toast one.  ;)  )

The SU-035-A01 and SU-031-X02 both have an empty ZD1 pad next to the RF board, as well as some empty resistor pads.  Both are PWB-A638 controller boards.

But why is ZD1 a three node pad?  Weird. 

The SU-012-X03 is fully populated, no sign of a ZD1.  It is a PWB-A561-B board, it has two (RF?) chips on the RF side, rather than one.

The SU-019-C01 also has a dual (RF) chip layout.  PWB-A586-x.  No sign of a ZD1.  This board is interesting, as it actually labels most of the test points with CLK, WKUP, RCLR, etc.

All four boards respond on the serial side of things.

You're right on RTS/DTR.  :)  I should try pulling them up to see what happens...



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on April 05, 2012, 02:20:26 AM
for the zd1 3 pads mystery, it could be a surface mount power zener.  Some come in SOT-23 package for example.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AnKi on November 03, 2012, 09:12:50 PM
Hi guys, I've been following the topic since a few days ago because I've got two boards SU-031-A02 and SU-029-A01, and what's my prob, I have been trying to connect it via Serial port and for getting the 3.3v I get the idea of using the 3.3v that came from the atx power supply to the motherboard, but I accidentally connected it to the Red pin (5v) instead of the Orange one (3.3v) and since then nothing works usb or serial interfaces, i couldn't get it working before anyway, may I have fried the boards by connecting them to 5v? ><
them uses the 14 pin interface that has the pins from 2 to 6 free

Thanks in advance
AnKi


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 03, 2012, 09:19:42 PM
others have done a similar mistake without harm. don't feed it 12v!!


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AnKi on November 03, 2012, 09:24:35 PM
Hehe XD actually I feel lucky to know which color is yellow (?
Ok I will keep trying a bit more and report if fail or success

Thankyou Bernard!


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on November 04, 2012, 02:10:11 AM
find a multimeter and measure the mAmps (connected in series to the power line) monitor it to see if having the pen in proximity  boosts the mAmps. This would be an indication that it is alive.

often there are lines to gnd or vcc (3.3v) to turn on the wacom and/or the data transmission.

I assume you saw our wiki page (http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:penenabled) on this subject. Can you provide me the details that you know about your boards?


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: AnKi on November 17, 2012, 11:36:38 PM
Ok here, these are the boards I have, The Digitizer Unit SU-029-A01 taken away from a Fujitsu Lifebook T4010, and SU-031-A02 from Toshiba Tecra M4

The SU-029-A01
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/480701_312415288873500_834137225_n.jpg)(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/14286_312415305540165_1173905576_n.jpg)

and SU-031-A02
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/602578_312415228873506_1330929772_n.jpg)(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/75929_312415262206836_1623324042_n.jpg)

The resolution is higher, just copy the image's address and paste in a new tab.

Both have the same 14 Pin interface, so I tried the USB Interface from here http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1870.msg13784#msg13784 (http://"Link")
But nothing worked, Maybe these are the ones that have the "Serial Only" Interface, I've checked the boards from using normally with their respective machines on Device Manager from windows and both said Serial Interface. I had the hope of being able to connect them via usb, I have serial port on my pc anyway, but no much serial cables as usb cables for testing, I will keep on contact if something else comes up.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on December 29, 2012, 12:18:46 AM
serial: these signals are CMOS (TTL but 3.3volts) so you need an adapter for sure.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: sanzoghenzo on December 31, 2012, 11:02:55 AM
Hey there,
can you please help me to clarify some aspects of this board? I started a new topic since I have also other questions unrelated to this digitizer:
http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=2239.0

Thanks for your attention!


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on December 31, 2012, 07:29:28 PM
What aspect(s) do you want clarification on?  Your question is clear as mud.  8)


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: sanzoghenzo on January 05, 2013, 08:28:07 PM
Thanks again bernard, now I think I got everything I need to start.
Well, I miss only the board!
I can only find stocks of 36 or 50(!) SU-13W02E-03A.

Do you have a spare one to sell me?  :D

Another question: what driver do you use?


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: sholland91 on February 06, 2013, 04:33:30 PM
Hey, I stumbled across this thread while researching the same digitizing unit (SU-13W02E-03A).
I would like to be able to connect this digitizer over USB to a Laptop and have it recognize a pen. I have 3 digitizers and 2 of the cables mentioned above. Based on what I've gathered here, I have tried to make a USB cable using a 3.3V regulator and connected the pins in the following order:

pin 1 - ground
pin 3 - USB D+
pin 4 - USB D-
pin 13 - 3.3V from regulator (5v in from USB)
pin 15 - ground

Is this correct? When I plugged it into my Windows 8 laptop, it was recognized as a pointing device. When plugged into a Windows 7 device, it installed drivers. This leads me to believe everything is working. So the next step is the pen...

As far as I can understand, there are a range of pens that work with this digitizer, but the ones for the new Wacom boards (Bamboo Intuos etc) do not work due to changes in the frequency used to communicate. That means that the intuos 1 or UD pens work?

Thanks for the help, sorry to restate a bunch of information. I'm trying to sort everything out



Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on February 07, 2013, 05:04:14 AM
All the "Penenabled" (most tablet PCs and even recent mobile devices like the samsung note. If they have a wacom digitizer inside, then it is compatible).  UD (Ultrapad/ultrapen) pens are also compatible.  This also includes the Axiotron pens (although they are now difficult to find -- they used to be cheap + available with eraser and dual side switch).   Intuos, Bamboo, Graphire are a different beast (digital) and will never work.

Sometimes it is cheaper to get a used/cheap wacom tablet that has a compatible pen.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: 27618349 on June 28, 2013, 01:35:07 AM
Hey,

I bought a SU-14W07-01X digitizer (and corresponding pen) off of eBay from a Gateway TA7 E295 laptop, in the hopes of making it interface with USB. I've hooked it up to a USB cable with a LM317 regulator that gives off 3.41 volts.

The pins were connected as follows:

Pin 1: GND
Pin 2: GND
Pin 3: USB D-
Pin 4: USB D+
Pin 11: 3.3V
Pin 13: 3.3V
Pin 14: GND

As according to the wiki pages.

When I plugged it in, absolutely nothing happened. No "ba-dunk" sound from Windows 7 that signified a device being recognized. Installing various flavors of Wacom drivers didn't do anything either. To make sure the digitizer was still live, I hooked an ammeter in series to the USB power line. I got 4 mA of draw when turned on, but it didn't change when I brought the pen near and far.


Can anyone help with this? I'm not even sure if this board is alive now, but I've been extremely delicate with it. How do I test whether the board is USB or serial?

Is it the 3.4 V supply vs 3.3 V?

If this board ends up being serial, how do I interface that? I've seen hints on the forums that there may be a way to switch a board between USB and serial modes, as this board is shown on wacom-components.com that it supports both UART and USB.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: bernard on June 28, 2013, 03:50:43 AM
I do not have that model listed. If you have more information about it, we could add it to the grid.

We have no clue as to how to "switch" from USB to serial. It's been a big mystery. I suspect the board is hardwired for a certain mode, since it appears to be ordered as a OEM part for a specific usage. That is why there are so many different models out there (like tons).  For example, none of the board we found had the big ZDx part installed (which we think would mean a 5V supply).   

Between 3.41v and 3.3v I would bet it is okay. Well close enough.  The voltage level is still in that range when powered?

4ma appears on bit on the low, but it could be normal if idling. If bringing a pen does not do anything to the mAmps then that is not a good sign that it is currently "turned on".

Even if it was serial, it should have done something to the mAmps.

Do not connect the USB lines at all. Just play with the power alone.  You could try to only power pin13 (not pin11). You can also try to ground other pins (at random).  Always keep your amp meter and watch for activity (or surge!!).  There might be an "enable" pin in there.  Always check for heat coming out of ICs. They blow fast.


B.


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: 27618349 on July 02, 2013, 01:17:20 AM
So you'll never guessed what happened.

I had my multimeter on the voltmeter setting (not ammeter).


Now, it yields around 8 mA while idling, and 27 mA when the pen is brought near. PHEW

When I ground pin 12, the current draw jumps to 28 mA.
When I ground pin 9, the current draw jumps to 25 mA.

Looking at the info on the wiki, the fact that grounding pin 12 causes a current jump is interesting. Does this mean it's serial?

EDIT: these numbers are all with Pin 11 unconnected to 3.3V

EDIT 2: I noticed that when I set Pin 11 back to 3.3V, the current drops out entirely. No power drawn. Otherwise, setting every other pin to 3.3V yields no current changes. I'm pretty sure this board is serial now. Can I simply wire it to a serial RS232 connector and plug it in a computer and have it work? (given drivers)


Title: Re: Help identifying pinout on tablet pc digitizer
Post by: kitor on November 24, 2013, 05:48:58 PM
Hi!
I have Wacom SU-025-C01 taken from HP TC4400 (12"). It's working internally on serial (has pins 1, 9 - 14 connected). On 1 and 14 there's GND, 13, 12, 10 - 3.3V (measured on ribbon from laptop, not connected to wacom).

Oh, and it has got ZD1 soldered! I'm attaching photo of circuit board here

I'm trying to connect this to PC. As it uses 14 pin connector, I tried to connect to USB. After connecting 1,2,14 to GND, 13 to 3.3 or 5V, 3 to D- and 4 to D+ nothing happens. Does that mean that this one is RS232 only? If so, anyone succeded to use penabled tablet on RS232 connected to regular PC? I'm asking because when i disconnected it from TC4400, it's still visible in device manager, only with exclamation mark.