Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Design issues => Topic started by: Drewid on November 29, 2006, 11:25:02 PM



Title: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on November 29, 2006, 11:25:02 PM
I got this PM from Mr Slippy so I though I'd answer it here as I wasn't very clear in the build notes.


one thing i wasnt sure about....and it was a little unclear after reading your guide...the pad's drawable area, is 12x12, even tho the case is 16x16, however, the monitor is a 15 inch monitor...so how does the draw area match the size descrepancy of the monitor and case match up...do you increase the window of the case to match the total monitor size, or lose the edges of the monitor under the case to match the maximum draw area of the wacom tablet circuitry? does that even make any sence? LOL
Anyway, hope you can illuminate my question:) thnx


RIGHT. (cough) The case on the 12x12 tablet is 16" x 16" , The sensor is pretty much that size as well but the active sensing area is 12" x 12".   There is an area of circuit outside of this which is partly where the chips live and partly (I think) an antenna for communicating with and sensing the pen.

A 15" non-widescreen monitor is 12"x9" the visible area is very slightly less than that. The hole I cut is -just- larger than the visible screen and -just- smaller than the LCD panel   Now then that obviously works out nicely.

Those lovely people at Wacom have given us perfect lines to cut the sides to, moulded into the casing. The next question is where you should mount the screen vertically.  I reckon go as close to the bottom of the case as you can while fitting everything in, and here's why:

The Wacom drivers allow you to section up the pad, and apply the different sections to different areas of windows desktop.  Now of course the biggest chunk of pad will map 1:1 to the LCD, BUT if you have a 3" strip of pad unused at the top you can map that onto your other screen. So you can keep photoshop menus on your main screen, leaving your pad free for just the main toolbar and the drawing.

Does that make sense?



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: kubi on December 01, 2006, 03:21:41 PM
Here are some Sizes
I hope these numbers are helpful
TabletActive Area (from Specs) Monitors Display Size (calculated)*
Intuos/2/3 A4 / 9x12 GD-912 /30.50 cm x 23.06 cm / 9.0" x 12.0" 15.0" 4: 330.48 cm x 22,86 cm / 9.0" x 12.0"
Intuos/2/3 A4 oversize / 12x12 /
GD-1212 / Ultrapad A2 / UD-1212
30.50 cm x 30.50 cm / 12.0" x 12.0" 15.1" 5:4**29.95 cm x 23.96 cm / 9,5" x 11,8"
15.4" 16:10**
17.0" 5:4

17.1" 16:10**
33.17 cm x 20.73 cm / 8.2 " x 13.1"
33.72 cm x 26.97 cm / 10,6" x 13,3"
36.83 cm x 23.02 cm / 9.0" x 14,5"
Intuos A3 / 12x18 GD1218 /
Ultrapad A3 / UD1218
Intuos2 A3 / 12x18
45.72 cm x 30.50 cm / 12.0" x 18.0"
--------
45.72 cm x 31.68 cm / 12.47" x 18.0"
20.0" 4:3
20.1" 16:10
21.0" 16:10***
40.64 cm x 30.48 cm / 12.0" x 16.0"
43.30 cm x 27.06 cm / 10.6" x 17.0"
45.23 cm x 28.27 cm / 11.2" x 17.8"
21.0" 4: 3 42.67 cm x 32,00 cm / 12.6" x 16.8"
Intuos3 A3 wide / 12x1948.80 cm x 30.50 cm / 12" x 19"22.0" 16:10 47.39 cm x 29.62 cm / 11.7" x 18.7"
Ultrapad A2 / UD-182563.50 cm x 46.20 cm / 18" x 25"

* These numbers are calculated. you should look into the spec of your preferred monitor
**This is a Notebook LCD size
*** I found a lot of 21" wide-screen monitors but they varying between 21" - 21.4"


if i found more specs, i'll extend it with more tablets


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: ya3 on December 03, 2006, 03:08:29 AM
Heheh... An Intuos3 12x19" with a 22" widescreen LCD would be awesome! Probably still cheaper than the Cintiq 21UX, too :P


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on December 03, 2006, 02:37:45 PM
I've read of someone building one as well. I'll have to see if I can get him to log it here.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: chingwa on December 03, 2006, 11:01:51 PM
 ;D


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: genocell on December 12, 2006, 05:16:22 AM
I've read of someone building one as well. I'll have to see if I can get him to log it here.

;D
A 12 x 19 would be a monster for sure, ha. I reckon the cost would be 800 usd for both the monitor and the tablet the most. I am looking for a refurbished 12 x 19 tablet from Wacom instead of buying in ebay - sorry I just can't dish out a couple of hundred bucks to some guy in the Internet. I saw Wacom selling refurbished stuff I don't see them anymore in their website.

Drewid, any luck in getting the guy building the monster logged in here?
 


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on December 12, 2006, 08:14:52 AM
Indeed. he is the mighty Chingwa. but r3d373 is also building a biggie

Refurb Wacom tablets - US
http://direct.wacom.com/stores/2/Refurbished_Tablets_C35.cfm?UserID=49800&jsessionid=a630122141165907747782.



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: genocell on December 12, 2006, 03:11:42 PM
Thanks for the link!  :)


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Clint on December 12, 2006, 11:28:03 PM
Edit: How big would a monitor have to be for a 6 x 8 tablet?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on December 12, 2006, 11:48:53 PM
Sorry, I don't get what it is you are asking.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Clint on December 12, 2006, 11:54:52 PM
Yeah sorry ><. How big would a monitor have to be for a 6 x 8 or a 18 x 24 tablet?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on December 13, 2006, 12:18:14 AM
6x8 would be 10",  that's getting pretty small.

18X24 would be 30" (not widescreen).  which is colossal.
That might be getting to the size where the backlight would be too thick. I've never seen inside anything that big so I don't know for sure.

A friend of mine just bought a dell 30" which needs a dual-feed video card but runs at something like 2500 x 1440 res.   mmmmmmmmm.

Not portable unless you have arms like King Kong, but potentially a fantastic desktop setup.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: SchwarzerPrinz on December 19, 2006, 12:47:12 AM
If you want to calculate your sizes for your own, use the following formulas:

Width of a TFT with a ratio of 4:3
WIDTH = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.8

Height of a TFT with a ratio of 4:3
HEIGHT = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.6

Width of a TFT with a ratio of 16:10 (5:4)
WIDTH = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.848

Height of a TFT with a ratio of 16:10 (5:4)
HEIGHT = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.53

Width of a TFT with a ratio of 16:9
WIDTH = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.872

Height of a TFT with a ratio of 16:9
HEIGHT = SCREEN DIAGONAL * 0.49

In case you want to check the maximal TFT size for your current pen board, simply transform the formula: W = D * F <=> W / F = D. Make sure you use the correct ratio!


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Switz on January 18, 2007, 02:51:32 AM
I have a question.  Can I just cut off any part of the sensing area on the wacom and nothing will happen?  Or am I getting at this wrong?  Also, do you think that the menu on the UD-1212 would be small enough to fit into a CTR with an internal power supply or no matter how big or small, it still will affect it.  Also, how far away does the power supply have to be, for example:

s|-------\
c| menu \
e|          /
e|supply/
n
sorry for bad drawing, lol did it with the keyboard :)


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: robcat2075 on January 18, 2007, 06:57:00 AM
I have a question. Can I just cut off any part of the sensing area on the wacom and nothing will happen?
  No, dont' make a cut in in the sensor circuit board.  There are long circuits running from edge to edge, they can't be broken and still work.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on January 18, 2007, 09:01:28 AM
Tablets cannot be cut.
As far as we know, having a power supply anywhere near the sensor will cause interference.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Switz on January 18, 2007, 01:55:57 PM
so, what are you talking about cutting off a peice of the sensor?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on January 18, 2007, 01:59:47 PM
wha??? ???


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Switz on January 19, 2007, 02:53:08 AM
Those lovely people at Wacom have given us perfect lines to cut the sides to, moulded into the casing. The next question is where you should mount the screen vertically.  I reckon go as close to the bottom of the case as you can while fitting everything in, and here's why:

The Wacom drivers allow you to section up the pad, and apply the different sections to different areas of windows desktop.  Now of course the biggest chunk of pad will map 1:1 to the LCD, BUT if you have a 3" strip of pad unused at the top you can map that onto your other screen. So you can keep photoshop menus on your main screen, leaving your pad free for just the main toolbar and the drawing.

Does that make sense?


That.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on January 19, 2007, 09:24:03 AM
Ah, OK.

The sensor stays in one piece, but the Wacom drivers allow you to map different areas for various tasks.  So for instance if you are running two monitors you can assign part of the tablet to each screen. You can even reserve areas to use as extra buttons or touch strips apparently, though I've never tried it.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Switz on January 19, 2007, 01:26:43 PM
oh, I get it, thats cool


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: NoValidTitle on November 28, 2007, 03:31:08 PM
I know you said the drivers allow you to section off a portion of the pad and map it somewhere else... how fine can you go down on that? I'm looking at doing a 22" (still looking at displays and open for suggestions) with a 12x19 pad. Using the info from this post a 22" widescreen LCD is 11.7 x 18.7 leaving 0.3" on a top and side, can you tweak that far down as to map 0.3 inches of the sensor? I'm not worried about losing that 0.3" but wouldn't that throw off the alignment if you DON'T remap the extra because it would be using 19" of pad for a 18.7" area?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on November 28, 2007, 09:26:40 PM
Using a slightly smaller screen on a bigger pad is easy and it tweakable down to individual counts, so that's a tiny fraction of an inch.

The drivers have a diagnostic mode where you can get a position readout live from the tablet, so that's the best way to callibrate it.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Lizman on June 12, 2009, 09:32:29 PM
Hello!
I has a little Question.
Which Monitor Size ist the best for an Intuos3 A5 Wide (or normal A5)?



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Skream on June 13, 2009, 12:20:09 AM
Hello!
I has a little Question.
Which Monitor Size ist the best for an Intuos3 A5 Wide (or normal A5)?


I'd say 10"


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Lapoz78 on September 13, 2009, 11:00:05 PM
Is there a way to use a monitor that is wider and taller then the tablet, i mean by only using part of the monitor? like using only the central portion of a 19" with an A4 intuos 3?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on September 14, 2009, 04:27:16 AM
I am not sure if you ask about how to only use a portion of the LCD monitor (as in: the rest will be black, like there was no LCD there) -- or have the tablet active area only affect a portion of the monitor?

For restricting the display of an LCD:

I am not sure how to do that. There might be tricks to do it -- probably the simplest is to have a graphics card that supports low resolution "at the native resolution" -- I mean -- render a smaller desktop image only in the middle of the LCD. You would have to be "lucky" and find a resolution that would output something close to your Wacom active area.

For having the active area only affect a portion of the monitor image:

You can.  Some have done it I believe, but it is not the common setup.

The drivers for the more recent Wacoms have less "features" (you cannot do multiple mapping on the same monitor - which can be used to map the "edges" with non 1:1 mapping to be able to cover the entire screen for your case).   You can search the forum to get the full details on which model supports which features. Search for the keyword "1:1" or "mapping".

So you won't be able to cover the whole screen with your pen with an Intuos 3 I believe. It may become a bit annoying constantly switching to your mouse (or some other input device) to access the menus or other parts of the screen.  If you already have a Wacom tablet, try it now to see if you can live with that limitation. 

Alternatively: If you can work with dual screen, you might get away by putting all the menus on the other screen and still map that screen to some other portion of your tablet (or use another, smaller tablet that is compatible with your Intuos 3 pen) -- That might be a very productive setup in the end. There is also a "monitor switcher or toggler" (can't remember the name) thingy which I am not sure what it does -- Drew knows about it and there is some talk about it in the forum -- maybe search for "multiple monitors" or "dual monitors".



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on September 14, 2009, 01:32:47 PM
With the switching monitors thing: With earlier there is a stand-alone programme you can run that flips the cursor between monitors either on a keypress or on ramming the dge of the screen.  I believe later Wacom drivers have that sort of thing built in.


Title: tablet size vs monitor size
Post by: Trollolle on November 11, 2009, 12:09:59 AM
It will all come down to the pricing if they get that right there will be no stopping it.

Children look at the bunch of companies that make peripherals for apple products there will be some kind of either bluetooth or wireless flashy keyboard made for and stands as well even though that would defeat the object of a tablet.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: cellofaan on November 11, 2009, 09:24:31 AM
For restricting the display of an LCD:

I am not sure how to do that. There might be tricks to do it -- probably the simplest is to have a graphics card that supports low resolution "at the native resolution" -- I mean -- render a smaller desktop image only in the middle of the LCD. You would have to be "lucky" and find a resolution that would output something close to your Wacom active area.

Someone mentioned NVKeystone once.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_nvkeystone.html
It looks like you can alter the size and shape of the second monitor (they show a beamer, but it might work on a regular monitor as well?)
I don't have an nvidia card, so I can't test it.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Drewid on November 12, 2009, 12:57:05 AM
I'm slightly baffled by that, doesn't every projector in the world already have that built in?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: cellofaan on November 12, 2009, 10:26:14 AM
The more expensive ones do, but the cheaper beamers mostly have only vertical keystone correction.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 11, 2011, 03:05:44 PM
Hello!
I has a little Question.
Which Monitor Size ist the best for an Intuos3 A5 Wide (or normal A5)?



I'm having a similar issue. I'm currently waiting for a Wacom Intuos 3 6x8 tablet from the US, but finding a LCD screen that fits exactly to the tablet's active area is killing me. It's hard to find technical data on the size of the actual viewing area and the resolutions are so low for most 10" screens it's not worth trying. I had apparently found a source for the screen used in the Asus Eee Pad Transformer tablet (10.1", IPS, LED backlit, 1280 x 800), but the company won't sell one to me unless I give them the part number, which I don't have as I don't own the tablet.

I told them what I wanted it for and that I wasn't trying to replace anything, I JUST wanted the screen, but they seem to think that Wacoms are like tablet PCs and have motherboards that can be blown up and/or incompatible with and that the screen won't fit into the chassis and whatever. The funny thing is, it's only for screens that are "tablet based" they have this issue with. Any basic low res laptop screen they would sell to me no problem. So, anyone know of a perfect LED backlit screen that fits a 6x8 active area perfectly, but doesn't look like crap and will still allow me to use Sketchbook Pro (I think the minimum is 1024 x768, but higher would be nicer!)?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 11, 2011, 03:28:30 PM
Those EEE asus screens are not always the easiest to "drive" -- especially the LED ones.  It is difficult to find a driver to turn it into a monitor. It may not be true for all of them, but if the interface is TTL, the choice of driver boards go down.  I believe nyjtouch has some. 

You could try to email them and maybe even ask for a LCD Panel they could recommend (or even sell) of your required size.  http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:lvdsvendors 


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 11, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
I was prepared to take that risk as the screen was so nice. An IPS panel would've been so cool (even if it is small). I was thinking of maybe looking to see if there were any Wacom "Penabled" tablet PCs that were as small as 10" and nabbing a screen off an old one just to see if the jittering issue could be avoided. But I have a feeling they start from 12" upwards...

I'll try njytouch and see what they say. But I doubt I'll find anything decent. I suppose I could live with a low resolution, but I don't think I could go with CCFL. LED would mean a much lighter, slimmer tablet that wouldn't run so hot. I was already working ondesigning a nice slim case to put everything in that I was going to cast in resin.

Edit: Just sent them an eBay message. Hopefully they can help me satisfy my Cintiq desire...


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 11, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
Most laptop CCFL LCD Panels are 5-6 mm in thickness. What type of thickness are you looking for?

Is "LED" that much lighter?  Not so sure, a CCFL tube is quite light (especially to drive 10 inches screens)! I think most of the weight is in the LCD matrix itself. Maybe the inverter board (to drive the CCFL) could make the difference in total case size. You know that when we talk about LED we really mean "LCD-with-a-LED-backlight".  Not truly a "LED-display". right?

One of the biggest advantage I can see with LED is the lower power consumption (heat). And "frequency-wise" there might be advantages for the "jitter" (but that is yet to be proven).

Tip: Before you buy a LCD Panel (that you know the brand & model number) you should check with the LVDS vendors to see if they can support it. If not, it will be a waste of time/money. (unless you want to get into building your own or if you get away with selling it at a higher price.)

If you get no response: We have Christina's email in the wiki page.

Oh!  and I forgot to say "Welcome Chocochan!"


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 11, 2011, 05:20:19 PM
6x8 is 4:3 (3:4) ratio.  So not widescreen.   Most recent laptops and tablets are widescreen nowadays 16:9 (or 16:10).  The older ones tend to be of lower resolution.

1024x768 is 4:3, 1280x800 is 16:10 (widescreen)

If you do the math and compute the diagonal size of 6x8 inches. The Intuos3 is, I believe, exactly 6.0 by 8.0 inches -- So this makes sqrt(6x6+8x8) = 10.0 inches, 4:3 ratio screen. Not 10.1  - Normally you want a tablet that is either the same size or bigger than the screen else you will have unreachable screen areas.  The native resolution tells you about the ratio and you can thus compute the width and height from the diagonal size with good-enough precision to match against the tablet.  If the screen is slightly bigger, you could even convert to pixels and know how much "pixels" will be "unreachable" on each side (or top/bottom).  Maybe you can live with 1 or 2 unreachable pixels on each side.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 11, 2011, 05:42:59 PM
6x8 is 4:3 (3:4) ratio.  So not widescreen.   Most recent laptops and tablets are widescreen nowadays 16:9 (or 16:10).  The older ones tend to be of lower resolution.

1024x768 is 4:3, 1280x800 is 16:10 (widescreen)

If you do the math and compute the vertical size of 6x8 inches. The Intuos3 is, I believe, exactly 6.0 by 8.0 inches -- So this makes sqrt(6x6+8x8) = 10.0 inches, 4:3 ratio screen. Not 10.1  - Normally you want a tablet that is either the same size or bigger than the screen else you will have unreachable screen areas.  The native resolution tells you about the ratio and you can thus compute the width and height from the diagonal size with good-enough precision to match against the tablet.  If the screen is slightly bigger, you could even convert to pixels and know how much "pixels" will be "unreachable" on each side (or top/bottom).  Maybe you can live with 1 or 2 unreachable pixels on each side.

Thanks for the welcome Bernard! ;D Yeah, I realised that and found it was about 2.54mm too large. I have seen other 10" laptop screens (yes, I'm just going to settle for one as long as it fits!), but sometimes they seem to differ very marginally in size depending on the manufacturer. The only reason I leaned towards 10.1" was because I would be able to get a slightly higher resolution and the screen's viewable area would not be too large. I intend to build one good DIY Cintiq and stay with it, so I'm looking for best I can afford and work with now. I've come across this screen sold by one of the LVDS controller sellers:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Toshiba-10-0-inch-LCD-Panel-LTM10C353-/110689372500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c599c954#ht_2644wt_905 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Toshiba-10-0-inch-LCD-Panel-LTM10C353-/110689372500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c599c954#ht_2644wt_905)

It says 10.0" but the resolution is 1280 x 600. I don't know what to believe as it's from a VERY old Toshiba laptop and there isn't much information on the net. I've asked to get the viewable area measured. IF it fits, I'm getting it as long as it's still about. As long as it's exactly 10" it should be OK, right?

Quote
Is "LED" that much lighter?  Not so sure, a CCFL tube is quite light (especially to drive 10 inches screens)! I think most of the weight is in the LCD matrix itself. Maybe the inverter board (to drive the CCFL) could make the difference in total case size. You know that when we talk about LED we really mean "LCD-with-a-LED-backlight".  Not truly a "LED-display". right?

Yeah, I was thinking of the inverter board really. Not having to mess about with that would be nice. And yes Bernard, I know what is meant by LED in the screen sense, I've built/repaired a few items (namely Nintendo handhelds and PCs), so I'm not THAT clueless!  ::) Oh! That reminds me, maybe this has been mentioned on the forums, and maybe it hasn't but I came across this for those who would REALLY like LED backlighting:

http://lcdparts.net/howto/LEDXB.aspx (http://lcdparts.net/howto/LEDXB.aspx)

It looks really easy to do and may be a good way of cutting down on the jitters or improving a mostly jitter-free build with better lighting. The have an online store and the prices aren't has high as I thought they would be for the whole kit. Check it out!  ;)


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 11, 2011, 11:12:34 PM
That screen's a no go. :( Too wide one way and too small the other way. The laptop was so ancient that I thought it would be what I after. Looking for something else and also researching something interesting. :-X I won't say much more than that. The 6 x 8 screen search continues!


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 12, 2011, 12:12:53 AM
Sorry chocochan for assuming that you might not know what a LED display is. (A lot of the people selling this stuff does not even know ???) -- they "think" the LCD technology is replaced by a LED technology.

Note that I might tell you stuff that you know or that I already told you and I am sorry in advance, there are so many people and widely varying level of knowledge in here. We try to help them all, I prefer to say more than less information.




Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 12, 2011, 05:36:50 AM
just realized that Toshiba  board is being sold by luly -- one of our lvds supplier.  I just went to her store now, she have more stuff including DVI boards that she actually sells with the programmer. Cool stuff!   


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 12, 2011, 10:31:24 AM
Sorry chocochan for assuming that you might not know what a LED display is. (A lot of the people selling this stuff does not even know ???) -- they "think" the LCD technology is replaced by a LED technology.

Note that I might tell you stuff that you know or that I already told you and I am sorry in advance, there are so many people and widely varying level of knowledge in here. We try to help them all, I prefer to say more than less information.




Please don't apologise, it's not as if you can read minds or something! :D I guess I'm kinda edgy as because I'm female, people think "what does she know about electronics?" Sure, I'm pretty new to wiring like this and designing PCBs and whatnot and building PCs isn't hard at all, but I'm definitely keen to learn (and lose some brain cells in the process!). Don't worry, I'm sure you'll be hearing PLENTY from me soon enough once my tablet arrives and I find a suitable screen!  ;D


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
Welp, I'm going to give up. :( (sorry for vast amount of text that will follow, but I REALLY tried!)

I just can't find a decent screen that fits the active size of this A5 tablet I'm STILL waiting for. Heck, I can't even find ANY resolution LCD screen that would fit this tablet. Not even on eBay! It probably wasn't a good idea to try this size in the first place, but I seriously didn't want anything bigger. I actually draw comics and other artwork on A5 paper/sketchbooks and enjoy putting detail in such a small scale. I've spoken to Christina from njytouch and she told me about one screen they had, but it was too big at 10.6" and too expensive (LTN106W1-L01). She measured it for me and I was proved right, though the resolution was equal to the Cintiq 12WX (1280 x 800). I had an idea when I googled about iPad screens since they were smaller (9.7", IPS, 1024 x 768) and it seems a lot of people have the same idea but for other reasons (car PC screen, little gaming screen for travel, etc.), but no one has a solution to driving the screen. I found the technical data/spec sheet here for it and discovered it is a LVDS screen and takes a 30 pin cable:

http://www.displayalliance.com/storage/1-spec-sheets/LP097X02-SLAA.pdf (http://www.displayalliance.com/storage/1-spec-sheets/LP097X02-SLAA.pdf)

I sent Christina this info (had to try twice as I think my Windows Live email was blocked, so went through eBay) and she said they couldn't help. This screen would've been only a bit smaller which is better than larger, but alas no go. I came across a guy who managed to drive his iPod screen. Yes, I said iPod screen:

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/ipodlcd.html (http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/ipodlcd.html)

I sent an email to him too, just in case he had any ideas. He has a lot of other interesting projects too (a lot of which I don't understand, but hey). Also tried EarthLCD too as they apparently make custom LCDs and even the controllers as well:

http://store.earthlcd.com/ (http://store.earthlcd.com/)

I don't think I'll get a reply from them though. Every LCD vendor I've told the same story and asked them to measure the active/viewable area of the screen for me. But they ALWAYS end up being too long in width and too short in length. Typing 10.0" does nothing as a lot of sellers will call anything near 10" (like 10.1", 10.4", etc.) "10.0"", so I end up with loads of useless eBay listings and links via Google and Yahoo! search. I've even tried going by resolution, like 800 x 600 (XGA, yuck), but for some reason that seems to equate to a lot of crappy 14" and 15" screens on eBay. I'll still keep the tablet when it comes (I'll need to get a pen for it as that's how I got it so cheap. It doesn't have one), but I'll just have to get used to using it as how it was designed. At least it's an Intuos 3 in good condition, so it's a quality tablet (hope it arrives in one piece!).

Looks like I'll have to kiss my DIY Cintiq dream goodbye... *sniff* :'(


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: SiliconeClone on June 15, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
Choco have you tried LCD's in the 9.6" Range??

Something like http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-9-6in-STN-Color-LCD-Screen-Assy-TLX-8062S-C3X-/370517938355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56449710b3


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 15, 2011, 05:50:36 PM
Alternative:  Use a bigger screen -- but "disable" portions of it -- (yes, it's possible in Windows using tools like Powerstrip)



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 06:23:57 PM
I couldn't find any good screens in an appropriate size either. 10.0 and 8.9 seem to be mislabeled a lot. Since it's your first cintiq type build, maybe you should worry about the resolution instead of size (since bernard gave you an option if reaching every edge is a big deal). 10.1" screens can be found with pretty good resolutions. The matte are average $20 with shipping more expensive, but you probably don't want glare in your eye when drawing.

I'm building mine for (mostly) the same reasons ~ beside the fact it's fun ^_^


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 15, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Yeah-- I meant either you give up on edges or you shutoff this area of the screen (leave black) using tools on the host. But you could even think that a 15 inches would work -- just that the final product "case" will be somewhat "large" with a "small" 6x8 window in the middle.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 06:40:07 PM
Choco have you tried LCD's in the 9.6" Range??

Something like http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-9-6in-STN-Color-LCD-Screen-Assy-TLX-8062S-C3X-/370517938355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56449710b3

Thanks for that SiliconeClone, but I *think* the resolution for that one is really low and I can't find ANY info about it on the net at all. IIRC the resolution was like 640 x 480 (though I could be wrong). I need a MINIMUM of 1024 x 768 to run Sketchbook Pro PROPERLY. Besides I'm kinda wary of purchasing a screen from overseas. Tablets are fairly tough, but a LCD screen...

Note: Actually that one is the ONLY 9.6" one on eBay and I think the internet (just googled 9.6" lcd screen). Can't find anything else. It seems to go straight to down 8.9" for smaller and that is a big loss of active area.

Bernard, I kinda want to avoid having to deal with sorting out a bigger screen if I can help it. Besides, it means I have to deal with getting it all to fit and making the whole thing probably bigger than I'd like. At least with a smaller screen there may be a small chance of getting it to fit perfectly into the Wacom case without having to move stuff TOO much. Not dismissing other options, I just already thought of them beforehand and figured something close to fitting right with the minimum of what I needed in resolution would be good enough to live with.

While most people want a DIY Cintiq of their own for art, they also seem to desire the challenge of building a better one and continue to do so. Like I said before, I'm only after building one to suit my needs and live with it, so I'm trying to get it right first time. Sorry if I sound stubborn, but I seriously don't have the money to just build one to see IF it works and then buy more parts to improve on it (and with a horrible screen I would seriously NEED to). I'm not asking for the best or even the impossible. Just something close to what I want. A compact Cintiq with a screen size I'm happy with and more importantly within my budget. I wish this idea was around years ago when maybe more 10" 4:3 screens were available. But I probably never even knew who Wacom are or even what a tablet is, so...


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 06:46:40 PM
Please, I just want something that I can draw on right now, this instant, as soon as I can assemble (something most who stalk the board without registering/posting probably feel).

This WILL work, many people have successfully done it. We're just talking about taking a screen, attaching it to a controller and computer, sticking it on top of intuos3, and doodling. Everything else is details.

Unless you're planning to open up the wacom, then you have to worry a little more about the inner workings. Are you trying to keep the whole unit inside the wacom case or are going to make an exterior housing (or use duct tape)?




Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 06:52:40 PM
Sorry, I missed the part about keeping it the case (my bad, stupid speed reading  ::)). A 10.1" screen is 1/4" bigger than the active area, so it should still work fine. The screen I'm trying is wsvga 1024x600 (from looking around, that seems to be the average in 10.1"), and displays with enough detail for my purposes.

Just curious, is there a specific reason you want to keep the whole project inside the wacom case? I only ask because, if you're that worried about getting things exact, you could try doing something similar to the dontiq (where the tablet is left intact).


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 15, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
You said that you needed 1024x768 at minimum (an important information I did not know while I was trying to answer you before), but, then you opt for a 6x8 tablet (without looking for a screen or even asking anybody their opinion). 1024x768 is not exactly called "low resolution" for a 10 inch (non-widescreen) screen.  The small screens that are 4:3 are typically old and 800x600. 1024x768 was the higher-end 14-15 inches. Only the more recent laptops are higher-res (still difficult to find if you just go to futureshop today and have a look!!). But more recent laptops are also widescreen.

Maybe you could find a "recent" widescreen panel that has near-768 lines and a matching "height".  It would of course have unused space on the sides.  Do not forget that a 6x8 tablet is not physically 6x8 -- it is much more. There is often a 1.5 to 3 inches border. What is the case size of the one you ordered?

Althought it is often simple, sometimes it is not (thinking about jitter here for one).

Why not get a Cintiq 12WX - this is a nice form factor (for a small-ish style) on ebay -- maybe you can get away with 600$ price. Be sure to snipe! These will work minus the "fun" to build it.  The general rule is: The lower budget, the more risks, the more work.  There might be other "non-wacom" products that could fit what you want with a better price. (hanvon)  In particular, tabletPC sensors tend to be on the small side and would typically work better with smaller screens.

BTW, getting a screen overseas is not a problem. All LCDs you can think of were manufactured "overseas".  Sending a package in the same city is not much different in terms of handling than going on a plane or a boat. The problem is not the oversea travelling, it is how it is packaged.



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
Quote
BTW, getting a screen overseas is not a problem. All LCDs you can think of were manufactured "overseas".  Sending a package in the same city is not much different in terms of handling than going on a plane or a boat. The problem is not the oversea travelling, it is how it is packaged.

Even by the slowest method (2 months by ocean) I've never had my delicates break.  The one exception happened when something was opened by customs (random checking because it was the cheapest option) and the packaging was removed, then dropped/broken several states over *facepalm*.

Quote
maybe you can get away with 600$ price.

Dang it, Bernard ~ do you have mad shopping on top of soldering skills!? In all my time looking, I couldn't find one below $800 range. I know it's possible (saw an old one go for $450 once) but I have not personally found one.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 15, 2011, 07:55:32 PM
LOL, yeah I never bought a Cintiq 12WX myself. I just check them every now and then. I stand corrected, true that 800$-900$ is closer to the norm (which I think is overkill since you do not get the warranty when buying a new one at 1000$).

This site (forum.bongofish) exists because there is simply no mid-cost and low-cost offering. TabletPCs are common but not the tablets alone. Look at the prices of LCD monitors and looking at how wacom sensors are built, there is no exotic materials, (just a lot of patents). If it wasn't for patents, one could decide to manufacture a Cintiq 21UX for 100$.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 08:08:16 PM
Hello!
I has a little Question.
Which Monitor Size ist the best for an Intuos3 A5 Wide (or normal A5)?


So, anyone know of a perfect LED backlit screen that fits a 6x8 active area perfectly, but doesn't look like crap and will still allow me to use Sketchbook Pro (I think the minimum is 1024 x768, but higher would be nicer!)?

That was from my very first post in this thread. I mentioned the minimum already. You even answered my question and educated me in screen ratios. I was prepared to look for a 1024 x 768 screen as that actually is the most common resolution today for a good number of 10" screens and the lowest I could go with the software I want to use. What I don't get is that you said it was 4:3 and yet all the screens with that resolution are long and thin like widescreen ones? I chose a 6 x 8 tablet (again the first thing I mentioned in my FIRST post) because I don't have the space for a larger tablet (seriously). As for overseas purchasing, it's different if you're a company importing stock. You CAN afford a courier that can get it quickly and safely to you. I can't. Even if a screen is perfectly packed, there's no guarantee the postal services are going to handle it with kid gloves. At least IF damage was to happen (God forbid), if it's in the same city or even country, I have a better chance of get a replacement quickly and easily. I'm talking from experience here. Some things I WILL import, no questions, but there are some things where even I draw the line. And believe me, I love the currency rate advantage and the fact the US has a crap load more stuff that us in Europe would kill for (not literally of course!).

As for the size of the tablet casing itself you can check out the specs here:

http://www.tablet4u.co.uk/product/en/intuos3-a5-usb-tablet.html (http://www.tablet4u.co.uk/product/en/intuos3-a5-usb-tablet.html)

This is a very useful site on Wacom tablets and it was here where I decided to go for the A5 one. I wanted something easy to hold and I liked the size active and inactive. The A4 one seemed too big to me. Might help people check out the specs on all the versions of Wacom tablets that ever existed before searching for a tablet. They sell some stuff, but are far too pricey for me! I also thought that if the screen was restricted to the lighter grey "active area", I would have a bit more room around it to shove in the controller board, inverter (unless I manage to find a way to get an easy to use LED backlit screen) and cables, then seal it all without having to widen the case somewhat.

Sorry, I missed the part about keeping it the case (my bad, stupid speed reading  ::)). A 10.1" screen is 1/4" bigger than the active area, so it should still work fine. The screen I'm trying is wsvga 1024x600 (from looking around, that seems to be the average in 10.1"), and displays with enough detail for my purposes.

Just curious, is there a specific reason you want to keep the whole project inside the wacom case? I only ask because, if you're that worried about getting things exact, you could try doing something similar to the dontiq (where the tablet is left intact).

Neatness really. I sculpt, mould and cast my own figures and stuff and am currently working to create my own stop motion animation puppets, so I pay a lot of attention to detail. I have knowledge and experience with resins (polyurethane and epoxy) as well as silicone rubbers (platinum and tin), so if possible I was going to slightly modify the original case and possibly re-cast it in a different material and nicer colour scheme. I just like things to look professional if it is within my power. I was also prepared to build a case from scratch, essentially cutting and shaping the original case and making a mould of it for a new case. Having it all fit would just be dandy and look better. :)


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 08:19:54 PM
768x1024 is a little odd of a resolution(at least around here), few monitors that I saw use it for their native specification. Most of the 10.1" (and others) that list it are actually misrepresented. A newer led screen is sharp already, maybe you should change the "768" part of your requirement. Go a little lower or higher, but check the actual inch or cm measurements.

If your going to modify for your own artistic purposes anyway, it's even easier to use an alternate size screen. You could even leave the wacom case intact and build you ideal around it. Just take into account the necessary space for the controller, wires leading out of the case, and depth of the screen.

Focus on the details of your ideal screen then look for those in a .1-2 bigger/smaller form.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 08:21:41 PM

Why not get a Cintiq 12WX - this is a nice form factor (for a small-ish style) on ebay -- maybe you can get away with 600$ price.

Lol, I just noticed this... Bernard, Bernard, Bernard. If I seriously had the money to even get a second-hand one, do you think I would even be posting here? Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses? ::)


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 08:28:42 PM
I'm more of the mind of "if I had that kind of spare cash in hand, I would want ____ more", ____ when talking about electronics would be a really good computer. Which is easier to find at that price, at least the parts, just because used cintiqs are too freaking rare.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 08:44:55 PM
768x1024 is a little odd of a resolution(at least around here), few monitors that I saw use it for their native specification. Most of the 10.1" (and others) that list it are actually misrepresented. A newer led screen is sharp already, maybe you should change the "768" part of your requirement. Go a little lower or higher, but check the actual inch or cm measurements.

If your going to modify for your own artistic purposes anyway, it's even easier to use an alternate size screen. You could even leave the wacom case intact and build you ideal around it. Just take into account the necessary space for the controller, wires leading out of the case, and depth of the screen.

Focus on the details of your ideal screen then look for those in a .1-2 bigger/smaller form.

My first choice for resolution was 1280 x 800 as I was trying to build an equivalent to the real Cintiq. And it's a "proper" resolution that my graphics card happily supports. But I didn't want any dead areas on the screen. Maybe there might not be if I knew the "true" active area size? Is it really 6 x 8, just because the light grey area is there? I still don't want to use Powerstrip to alter anything. I already have a lot of intensive CPU use software as it is. I want to use my DIY Cintiq to edit the frames of my animations (erasing jumping/flying rigs, adding special effects, etc.). I guess truthfully what I'm trying to say is that I want to build something that "looks" commercial. Having had a lot of disappointments in my life, achieving something that would actually be of great use to me would certainly make me think my life is at the very least worthwhile.

I wanted to try and rival the 12WX, but add my own style to it. Not to show off, but rather just to prove to myself that I can do anything if I really put my mind to it. I've never been good learning about delicate electronics like this, so to build something that is the equivalent of something worth a lot more would be a great achievement for me. If it was my world, there would be lower cost Cintiqs that are thin like slate tablet PCs (or even thinner) with all the functionality of an Intuos 3 or 4 and a screen with great viewing angles. I suppose I wanted to make something slim and nice that feels like you're drawing on a pad of paper, just so I can still feel the way I do when I draw "traditionally". Technology has come so far that I find it hard that this hasn't been done. I thought I could at least get close enough for my standards if I tried.

I was really disappointed when finding a screen would be the worst of my problems. It was like I failed before I even tried. Maybe I am asking for too much. :(  


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
I'm more of the mind of "if I had that kind of spare cash in hand, I would want ____ more", ____ when talking about electronics would be a really good computer. Which is easier to find at that price, at least the parts, just because used cintiqs are too freaking rare.

There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: bernard on June 15, 2011, 09:18:13 PM
Quote
Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses?
:D :D

But seriously, can you risk this? Please understand that you can easily put 100-200$ on a LCD Panel and it can become garbage a few days later.   Look at what happened 3 hours ago to this gentlemen: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1859.msg14252#msg14252

Did you read about jitter?



1024x768 is 4:3 (like your 6x8 tablet) -  (do the math yourself: divide by 256 in this case). The exact  active area of the tablet is 6.0 by 8.0 -- sometimes wacom tablets have a bigger active area than advertised but that is just because there is some macro buttons at the top, so that does not really count -- unless we find a way to use the area instead of the buttons.

I do not understand -- are you saying that most 10 inches are 1024x768 ?



Sorry chocochan - I retract what I said if it was wrong. :-[ I probably forgot or mixed with somebody else. I "multitask" a lot on this site (I am of the male-type gender, and they are usually pretty bad at it).

The original intent is to help here.



They way I see building the really dirt-cheap DIY cintiqs is a process driven by "opportunity". You cannot design and then get parts, it is the reverse, you get parts and then you design around it. It is like walking in a scrap yard to find 2 pieces that would somehow fit together (screen and tablet in our case). And until you see one is working good on top of the other in front of your eyes, you will never know if it will work.



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 09:24:57 PM
Quote
There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?

Those are generally actual retailers, or people who buy them on consignment to make a profit. Even with the 0.99 start bid they usually finish close to the actual worth and aren't worth looking at for a bargain hunter. By rare, I mean an honest-to-goodness used cintiq. People generally don't give these things up. When the do it's because they need quick cash on a large ticket item, they've upgraded to larger unit, it's 20 years old, etc. Just like anything else, it rarely has to do with  product flaw.


If you have the skills to work with resin and similar material, you personally have the ability to make a professional finished product ~ just make sure you leave an access point in case, say 5 years from now, a normal wear and tear type of situation occurs (lcds can burn out in normal uses too) . I'm working on my own intuos3 6x8 project with a 10.1" screen, so I can check any measurements if that will help. The intuos3 is as thick as a relatively thin notebook, so adding a 5.5mm screen and little amount of resin won't be that different from what your describing. Just put the wires and control on the side of the intuos inside your resin case. Or carefully arange things inside the wacom case if that's your route.

Getting upset over an lcd you haven't bought yet isn't the worse you can come across in this project. We're talking about live wires and delicate crystal displays, dangerous stuff if you're not careful (ask anyone on the forum). But you'll be fine as long as you apply some basic problem solving and thorough research before any purchases,

Bernard is just trying to warn you of the risks we all assume with a  do-it-yourself, things break, people get shocked, etc resulting in extra cash and time (and occasionally band aids). But your working on a smaller than normal project, whose items are relatively cheaper. Depending on your choice, a 10.1" shouldn't run more than $70, any where from $25-$65 with shipping.

I don't have the time/patience/contacts (I get old phones from people instead of laptops with salvageable screens) to make a dirt cheap one myself, just as cheap as I can with the quality I want.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 10:17:07 PM
Quote
Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses?
:D :D

But seriously, can you risk this? Please understand that you can easily put 100-200$ on a LCD Panel and it can become garbage a few days later.   Look at what happened 3 hours ago to this gentlemen: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1859.msg14252#msg14252

I WON'T be spending THAT much on an LCD. They are seriously not that expensive. Maybe certain models and brands are, but a lot are very cheap if you're going for a laptop one. For example, the one on Ueki's build I can get for around £40 brand new with FREE shipping. If people choose to use an expensive screen on a project that has its risks, that's their business.

Did you read about jitter?

Naturally. That was the first thing I thought about when I decided to try this. I was swayed by the awesomeness of the K-Jintiq and wanted to do something similar but on a smaller scale. I hoped to improve on it by using the iPad screen since it wouldn't require and inverter (LED backlit), was an IPS panel (for great viewing angles) and fit the minimum requirement for resolution (1024 x 768). Oh and it was just a *bit* smaller, so I wouldn't have to worry about losing too much active area or not having areas covered. I still haven't given up on it. Something just tells me to keep searching for a solution.

The big thing I always thought about was this. Maybe if builds used screens that were originally used by manufacturers to go in front of touch screen or Wacom digitisers. I know that the frequencies may not be the same, but what if it was as simple as that? I saw a tablet PC screen for sale that has a Wacom digitiser on the back for £30. What if that particular screen was used because its frequency was suitable for running along the Wacom digitiser's frequency? I don't think anyone has used a penabled tablet PC screen and replaced it with say, the Intuos range? I'm still waiting for a response from the seller on size and resolution, but what if there was truth to this? Maybe by figuring out what makes that screen so special would help in guaranteeing a more jitter-free build?



1024x768 is 4:3 (like your 6x8 tablet) -  (do the math yourself: divide by 256 in this case). The exact  active area of the tablet is 6.0 by 8.0 -- sometimes wacom tablets have a bigger active area than advertised but that is just because there is some macro buttons at the top, so that does not really count -- unless we find a way to use the area instead of the buttons.

I do not understand -- are you saying that most 10 inches are 1024x768 ?

My bad. A lot ARE 1024 x 600. A vendor's site I once looked at had a LOT of 1024 x 768 ones (I think they were LG ones) when I did a search for 10" screens. I saw some that were 1366 x 768, but these are for the weird Sony Vaio laptops and they were calling THOSE screens 10.1"... But we all know that most vendors call ANYTHING close to 10 inches, 10.0". So it's just them lying again. They were probably 10.4" or something. ;D



Sorry chocochan - I retract what I said if it was wrong. :-[ I probably forgot or mixed with somebody else. I "multitask" a lot on this site (I am of the male-type gender, and they are usually pretty bad at it).

The original intent is to help here.

I doubt you were wrong at all. You know WAY more than I ever could. More than likely it was my fault.



They way I see building the really dirt-cheap DIY cintiqs is a process driven by "opportunity". You cannot design and then get parts, it is the reverse, you get parts and then you design around it. It is like walking in a scrap yard to find 2 pieces that would somehow fit together (screen and tablet in our case). And until you see one is working good on top of the other in front of your eyes, you will never know if it will work.

I understand that. But was I really far from that process? I wanted to get certain parts and work with them until I see results. However, people with the tools and possibly the knowledge (not talking about people here on these forums), weren't willing to help. Here is the forum that piqued my interest in the iPad screen in the first place:

http://www.mp3car.com/lcd-display/144879-need-help-selecting-controller-for-ipad-lcd.html (http://www.mp3car.com/lcd-display/144879-need-help-selecting-controller-for-ipad-lcd.html)

If you scroll down, you'll see a post from a guy who mentions njytouch and their controllers. I believe that it is possible to drive the iPad panel and if I got the correct cable and controller, it'll work. The screen is not expensive, so I'm willing to try, but the only reply I get from them is "can't help". No recommendation of an alternative screen. They just mentioned one that is too big and actually cost a lot of money (to get it here is around £80 if you're lucky). Yes, it may work with their controllers, but it's not what I want. The iPad screen is actually CHEAPER and an original too.




Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Chocochan on June 15, 2011, 10:39:18 PM
Quote
There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?

Those are generally actual retailers, or people who buy them on consignment to make a profit. Even with the 0.99 start bid they usually finish close to the actual worth and aren't worth looking at for a bargain hunter. By rare, I mean an honest-to-goodness used cintiq. People generally don't give these things up. When the do it's because they need quick cash on a large ticket item, they've upgraded to larger unit, it's 20 years old, etc. Just like anything else, it rarely has to do with  product flaw.


If you have the skills to work with resin and similar material, you personally have the ability to make a professional finished product ~ just make sure you leave an access point in case, say 5 years from now, a normal wear and tear type of situation occurs (lcds can burn out in normal uses too) . I'm working on my own intuos3 6x8 project with a 10.1" screen, so I can check any measurements if that will help. The intuos3 is as thick as a relatively thin notebook, so adding a 5.5mm screen and little amount of resin won't be that different from what your describing. Just put the wires and control on the side of the intuos inside your resin case. Or carefully arange things inside the wacom case if that's your route.

Getting upset over an lcd you haven't bought yet isn't the worse you can come across in this project. We're talking about live wires and delicate crystal displays, dangerous stuff if you're not careful (ask anyone on the forum). But you'll be fine as long as you apply some basic problem solving and thorough research before any purchases,

Bernard is just trying to warn you of the risks we all assume with a  do-it-yourself, things break, people get shocked, etc resulting in extra cash and time (and occasionally band aids). But your working on a smaller than normal project, whose items are relatively cheaper. Depending on your choice, a 10.1" shouldn't run more than $70, any where from $25-$65 with shipping.

I don't have the time/patience/contacts (I get old phones from people instead of laptops with salvageable screens) to make a dirt cheap one myself, just as cheap as I can with the quality I want.

I know all that (well the safety issues and risks), I've worked with many electrical items and haven't killed any of them (many with even smaller screens, but they tend to be more durable), and I'm aware of what can happen (it still pains me when I see some people don't ground themselves AND the area they're working on! When I was first learning I did buzz myself, so I always use an anti-static strap and mat that has a built in resistor in case of shocks). My issue isn't with what can happen, it's more about not getting what I want. You say you want to build one with the quality YOU want. I'm no different from you. I want different components, that's all. I want to build it the best way I can since it is MY ONLY BUILD. Just like you I want a build that works with the quality I want. If there is a chance that I can get my criteria within my budget filled, then aren't I allowed to take that chance?

I believe there IS a chance. But I'm not getting the answers I need. I don't go to manufacturers expecting them make me something. That would be wasting their time and money. But if I go to a RETAILER and ask them for something they have and they won't sell it to me, or to work with me on their product and they flat out refuse me, I don't have a right to complain? Maybe this isn't the project for me. The procedure is sound, there is no doubting that. I want a decent screen as I'll be doing EVERYTHING art related on it. Why should I settle for a sub-par panel with poor viewing angles just so I can say "yay, I built a Cintiq!" If I'm going to be putting actual effort into this, putting my money into this, I'm doing it well or not at all.

Oh, and about the Cintiqs for sale. I don't think ALL of them there now are from retailers or people who are after a profit. I have seen some genuine used ones, though I do agree, they are hard to find. Funnily enough most of them are 12WXs...

EDIT: Things may be looking up. Got an interesting email. Will need to see how this goes...


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Ueki on June 15, 2011, 11:06:24 PM
I'm not disputing any of that. I was just listing a few things so you can find the right parts for your build. Like looking through websites that list the data sheets for lcds, looking through different sizeswhich will still work and look perfect with a 6x8,  and expanding your parameters slightly during product searches. I'm not saying to change WHAT you want, change how you LOOK for it and DESIGN around it.

 It's just natural to warn someone when dealing with electronics, even if they know what their doing (it's human nature).



Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Martytoof on August 29, 2011, 02:10:59 AM
I'm not sure how many of you work on MacOS, but 10.7 introduced a cool feature into the display preferences where you can artificially introduce underscan in your monitor.

(http://i.imgur.com/FY5IT.png)

The OS does a fairly decent job of scaling the graphics. I'm thinking about using this method to shoehorn a 6x8 tablet onto a 15" 1024x768 LCD and fabricating a custom enclosure.

It's obviously not as elegant as properly sizing your monitor, but I'm thinking about giving this a whirl, at least until I can find a proper LCD to work with a 6x8.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: Rik! on August 29, 2011, 07:47:47 AM
Underscaning is a bad idea imo. It results in a blurry screen and with a panel with slow resolution it'll be worse.


Title: Re: tablet size vs monitor size.
Post by: buildorbust on August 30, 2011, 08:10:14 PM
Underscaning is a bad idea imo. It results in a blurry screen and with a panel with slow resolution it'll be worse.

It could work, but you'd have to also drop resolution to compensate, which defeats the purpose of getting a higher res screen to begin with.