Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Build Logs => Topic started by: Rik! on August 05, 2011, 01:26:15 AM



Title: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 05, 2011, 01:26:15 AM
Hello everybody. I'm Rik, 27 years old from France and.. today I started my  Cintuos project.

(http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1967.0;attach=4752;image)

So it's :

-An intuos3 A3 wide
-A 21.5 inches LG IPS226 ( Yes it's IPS and LED backlight, and also external powerbrick ! Yay!)
-A custom case made of I-don't-know-what-for-the-moment. (I guess plexiglas)
-An ergotron arm.

So tonight I disasembled both screen and intuos3. The LG screen was a bit tricky to dismantle but I finally  managed to do it with not too much damages.

I had some troubles making the LED work again but it's just because I repluged the FFC in the wrong way. ( BTW I burned my fingers with that LEDs ... who said that they were not hot ?????)
The intuos 3 A3 is pretty big and I'dlike to gain room by changing the place of the expresskeys, Is that possible ? ( especially for the touch strips)

Well, I'll post photos later.

[EDIT] : I just did test the screen over the intuos and ... It works !!! and way better than I imagined... Jitter = ZERO !!! this screen is definitely the perfect screen for a DIY cintiq ! Hooray !

[EDIT2] : Well I broke the LED bar... can't find a good replacement. I just bought a new screen.

Cost so far :

- used Intuos3 A3 : 270€
- brand new LG IPS226V : 179€ ( broken LED )
- brand new LG IPS226V again : 136€
- Longer FFCs for led : 5€
- FFC + PCB for the screen at DIY beamer : 24€
- Plexiglass for the casing :  55€
- Paint for the case : 8€
- 22" screen protection film : 9€

TOTAL = 686€



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on August 05, 2011, 01:11:45 PM
That's very good news on getting no jitter :)

Did you take any photos of stripping the LG? 

Right - so moving the express keys is possible.  If I remember correctly the board they are on is glued into the case, but can be pulled off if you are careful. It might be worth looking through the successful Intuos 3 builds to see if anyone mentions it.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 05, 2011, 02:15:47 PM
Actually I didn't took photos because it was dark at night and I my camera and cellphone were out of battery. :(

But it's noting complicated. I just removed all I could ! The hardest part was to open the case, but I used the bottle/screen opener and than everything went good ! :)

The inside of the monitor is actually pretty simple since the power is external.

My problem now is that the LEDs are at the bottom of the screen and the controller is on the upper side so I have to find a longer FFC to conect the LEDs.

Anyway, I'll try to do a fake WIP photos :)

Does anyone know were I can find a 6pin 7mm wide FFC ? more than 300mm long would be great ! I found one on Ebay but it's pretty expensive !



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Demontiq on August 05, 2011, 06:37:22 PM
Hey rik! You could try conrad, they sometimes have some good pars at good value.
Great news on the jitter! You might want to try putting the lcd controller board underneath the wacom while its on to see if that causes any jitter if you haven't already done so.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 05, 2011, 09:53:08 PM
I just tried the tablet putting the screen controller just under the tablet pcb without shielding and...  there is small amount of jitter and sometimes a dropout just at the very place where the some parts of the lcd controller is. But again : without shielding at all, so I think its nothing bad.

Other thing : It's very difficul to find the cable i need but maybe it's easier to find a longer LVDS cable ?

[EDIT] : I finally decided to purchase a 30pin pcb + 30 pin FFC so I can put the lcd controller a bit aside to eliminate any jittering.  8) thanks to diy-beamer.com


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 05, 2011, 11:24:59 PM
Well... obviously, there is a problem with DIY-beamer.com ... I can't order :'(

Why lord  ?!!!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: brimblashman on August 08, 2011, 12:15:33 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the ergotron arm, looks fantastic for this kind of project. I was thinking of getting a coolermaster ergostand to modify but now i'm tempted to bite the bullet and mount everything in the orginal wacom case and stick it to one of those :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on August 08, 2011, 07:33:24 AM
Well... obviously, there is a problem with DIY-beamer.com ... I can't order :'(

Why lord  ?!!!

I've sent an email to the guy there.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 08, 2011, 11:11:07 AM
Well... obviously, there is a problem with DIY-beamer.com ... I can't order :'(

Why lord  ?!!!

I've sent an email to the guy there.

Thank you ! Much apreciated ! they're the only one who have what I need ...


Thanks for the heads up on the ergotron arm, looks fantastic for this kind of project. I was thinking of getting a coolermaster ergostand to modify but now i'm tempted to bite the bullet and mount everything in the orginal wacom case and stick it to one of those :)

I already have an ergotron arm so I wouldn't use anything else ! Those arms are so cool !  I have the old version but i'm thinking of buying the new one.

I personally won't use the wacom case because the intuos3 A3 case is ugly !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 08, 2011, 09:55:10 PM
Hello ! I'm not at home for the week so I just made a concept to show you what will my cintuos is going to look like ( if everything is ok)

Enjoy

[attachment=1]


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on August 09, 2011, 07:19:48 AM
Nice :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 09, 2011, 12:15:47 PM
Thank you ! I hope it'll look nice in real as well !

By the way, I still don't know what  I'm going to do for the back but anyway, I'm not going to do anything before I can order cable extension to DIY-beamer.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 09, 2011, 07:49:36 PM
I used plexiglass and it scratches up pretty quickly.

Got some custom toughened glass cut for £15 its 4mm thick but its not got a single scratch on
it so far. Problem would be you would not be able to drill or cut holes in this glass so maybe a central section just overlapping the screen slightly.

Great build so far. Please post a few pics of the screen bare if you can at some point.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Demontiq on August 09, 2011, 08:24:54 PM
How are you planning on doing the touch sensitive buttons?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Pesho on August 09, 2011, 08:40:46 PM
I used plexiglass and it scratches up pretty quickly.

Got some custom toughened glass cut for £15 its 4mm thick but its not got a single scratch on
it so far.

Can't you just use one of those screen protectors that's like an adhesive sheet of scratch resistant polymer?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 09, 2011, 09:36:45 PM
I used plexiglass and it scratches up pretty quickly.

Got some custom toughened glass cut for £15 its 4mm thick but its not got a single scratch on
it so far. Problem would be you would not be able to drill or cut holes in this glass so maybe a central section just overlapping the screen slightly.

Great build so far. Please post a few pics of the screen bare if you can at some point.

Jan

I'm going to stick an antiscratch antiglare film on the screen surface. I'm still not sure what to do about the rest. I'd like a seemless glossy front panel but I know it's giong to have scracthes pretty fast....maybe I should add a glossy film and cut the screen emplacement to put the antiglare film ?

I'll post photos asap, but I usually work on this at night and my camera is pretty bad for dark scenes.

Anyway thank you for the support !

How are you planning on doing the touch sensitive buttons?

Actually my screen already have touch sensitive buttons so i'll just stick it to the surface. In fact, it seems that they are more like proximity buttons and it looks like intuos touch strips are like the same. That's why I can't use thick plexiglas or glass. :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 14, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
Here comes some pics !
[attachment=1]

So,this is the screen on top of the tablet. The screen is actually upside down because I don't want LEDs under my arm, it's pretty hot !
Also I  guess i'l have to insert something between the panel and the tablet because otherwise the LEDs wont light right in front of what they are supposed to light.
Ah, and the FFC's are really to short !
I still can order to DIY-beamer so I decided to try another way by cutting FFC's ( 20pins 1mm pitch 400mm long ) to fit the number of pin I need.




[attachment=2]

Heres the control board. As you can see, there is vga, dvi and hdmi port and beside the DVI port it's the power supply plug.
THe long thin pcb is the touch sensitive buttons

I tried them through 2.5mm thick plexi and it still works... I wonder what's the max I can do ! Anyway, my final screen will be 1.5 or 2mm thick so no problem !




[attachment=3]

Testing ! So as I was saying earlier, the LED are not right in front of where they should be so the backlight is a bit weird... plus I think I messed up with the layers order :/

You can see a little amount of jittering on the line. I did it on purpose. I have drawn a line close to the controller very very slowly to show the jittering but... i'l probably never draw that slow and anyway, nothing is grounded for now so I guess it's pretty good.

the cables are very very shot ...



[attachment=4]


Here the picture of the jittering because I just saw that it's not even visible on the photo.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 16, 2011, 12:13:59 AM


That looks really nice, thanks for posting the pics.

I ultimately want a large screen tablet and this screen one i can get.

Hopefully it won't get too hot after being for a bit?


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 16, 2011, 01:49:50 AM


That looks really nice, thanks for posting the pics.

I ultimately want a large screen tablet and this screen one i can get.

Hopefully it won't get too hot after being for a bit?


Jan

I hope I got what you said right (i'm french) so, about that screen, I think it's very very cool! IPS + led is a good combiation for a LCD tablet IMO. About getting hot, I turned the screen upside down so the LEDs are on the top of the tablet,where your arm never goes so the heat of the surface when you draw is almost nothing ! :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: CountachLP400 on August 16, 2011, 10:52:03 PM
If I might ask, how thick is the diffusion plate that goes behind your LCD panel?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 17, 2011, 05:28:32 PM
I didn't measured it but i think it's less than 2mm.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 17, 2011, 07:58:43 PM


2mm thats very thin.

What is the thickness of the LCD screen total please.

thanks,

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 17, 2011, 10:14:57 PM
First I tried to remove everything to have the thinner screen I could have then the panel was aproximatively 4mm. But it was quite difficult to keep the layers and the LEDs in place so I decided to keep the plastic frame, cutting the screws holes to gain some mm. The plastic frame has a separation between  the backligh layers and the actual panel so now it's 7mm thick. :(

I still don't know if i'm gonna keep the plastic frame...


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 17, 2011, 10:56:46 PM


I got about 12mm + 4mm thickness of my lcd panel before signal is lost between the tablet and the pen, It might be ok to leave your lcd panel at 7mm
if you are going to have something very thin over it for protection.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 17, 2011, 11:36:33 PM
I plan to put a 1.5mm thick plexiglas over it.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on August 18, 2011, 12:02:10 PM
looking good so far! i was gonna buy this screen for my intuos 3, but i think i'll wait a while.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: luxeomni on August 18, 2011, 09:08:34 PM
Ah un build francais, je pense que je vais en faire un comme toi dans pas longtemps, je viendrais te faire chier si je galere ;). J'en ai déjà quelques uns en construction a base de tablet pc et de 12x12.
Et gros big up pour la dreamcast qu'on voit sous ta table basse ;).



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 19, 2011, 03:33:48 PM
;)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on August 21, 2011, 02:45:56 PM
eh ben, encore des francais: je vais pas m'emmerder je pense. :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 21, 2011, 02:53:46 PM
héhéhé.

I still don't have receive the stuffs that I need to keep on building, so... stay tuned, I hope it'll arrive soon !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 25, 2011, 04:27:40 PM
Hi, I'm looking to start a similar build, but with an intuos4 and I was wondering a few things. Do you just need a longer FCC on account of flipping the LED's or was it too short regardless. Also, if you flip the LED's shouldn't that cause problems when viewing content (like the light being in the wrong place) or are they just solid LED bars instead of being subdivided? TIA!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 25, 2011, 09:21:29 PM
Hi, I'm looking to start a similar build, but with an intuos4 and I was wondering a few things. Do you just need a longer FCC on account of flipping the LED's or was it too short regardless. Also, if you flip the LED's shouldn't that cause problems when viewing content (like the light being in the wrong place) or are they just solid LED bars instead of being subdivided? TIA!

Cool ! I actually need a longer FFC because it's too short anyway. About the LED I didn't fliped it, I kept them in their place, I just flipped the whole screen so the LEDs are on top side. And i'm sorry I think I didn't get the last part of your post but I'll try to answer :

As I didn't moved the LED bar there is no problem but if I did so, I would have turn all the layers but the panel so the light would still be homogeneous.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 26, 2011, 04:28:07 AM
Thanks for the reply. I understand your panel better now. So the LED is just a single strip with no kind of "smart" technology to apply different amounts different locations etc..

About the extenders, I actually have a dead optical drive so if I need something I might pull that apart and see if anything matches. If I end up not needing any, they're all yours (as long as you're in the USA) since it seems like you've been waiting for quite a while. How do I measure them? Center to center on the lines?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on August 26, 2011, 06:22:02 AM
The pitch is the center to center distance (which is equal to the left side to the left side distance -- sort of thing).  The way to compute this is to measure the total size and divide by the number of connections. Typically 0.5mm was the norm for these LCD panel circuits board-to-board connections.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 26, 2011, 07:43:23 AM
Actually, mine is 1.0mm pitch.

I ordered FFCs on ebay and I think I received it today. Got to go to the post office to take it. And no, I'm not in the US, I'm in France.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 26, 2011, 01:33:03 PM
Actually, mine is 1.0mm pitch.

I ordered FFCs on ebay and I think I received it today. Got to go to the post office to take it. And no, I'm not in the US, I'm in France.

Hurray! BTW, I really like your idea about movie the side buttons out of the way.

The pitch is the center to center distance (which is equal to the left side to the left side distance -- sort of thing).  The way to compute this is to measure the total size and divide by the number of connections. Typically 0.5mm was the norm for these LCD panel circuits board-to-board connections.

So without a complete teardown to look for hidden ribbons, there only appear to be 3 that might be usable (others are way too high pitch).

3.8cm w/ 74 pins for ~.0514mm pitch
8cm w/ 7 for ~1.14mm pitch
7 w/6 for ~1.17mm pitch

I think I also have a broken DVD player packed somewhere so I might take a gander at that too if I haven't already tossed it.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 26, 2011, 01:55:44 PM
Which side button are you talking about ?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 26, 2011, 02:01:12 PM
Moving the Wacom buttons further up so they're out of the way.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 26, 2011, 02:11:56 PM
Actually I'm moving them a bit down... They are a bit higher on the orginal. As my screen is smaller vertically, I had to move the buttons down to be aligned with the screen... And what's the point of putting them out of the way? I better want them IN the way so I dont have to move my arm to reach them !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 26, 2011, 02:39:51 PM
Oh, was going on the assumption that the layout was similar to the Intuos4. On the i4, the buttons are vertically centered on the left side so I assumed you'd moved them up.

I'm most comfortable drawing on a tablet laid flat so my left arm will probably be resting on the border.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 26, 2011, 02:47:22 PM
My build is based on the Intuos3.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 26, 2011, 10:28:27 PM
I dont know what I did, but I think I've screwed the LED bar...

EDIT : Looks like I fucked the ZIF connector...  I'm screwed !

EDIT2 : Finally, trying to arrange things, Things went worse... I broke a pcb track triyng to remove the zif... double screwed... I have a nice screen with no backlight !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on August 27, 2011, 12:02:12 AM
PCB traces can often be "fixed" by installing a jumper.

The ZIF connector? which one?  For the backlight you said? 

Take a picture -- maybe I can help out.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 27, 2011, 12:50:07 AM
I'll take a picture in the morning. I guess it's fixable but not with my stuffs.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 27, 2011, 11:28:29 AM
Here are the pictures :

[attachment=1]


As you can see, two parts of the tracks are gone.

[attachment=2]


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on August 27, 2011, 02:11:16 PM
yeah -- not simple, but if the connector itself is still functional, I think it could be done by scraping the top of the broken traces to expose more metal (or find a bigger "connecting" spot easier to solder on) and bridge with wires. (wire from the connector base to whereever on the LED bar.)

Delicate work indeed. 


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 28, 2011, 10:49:08 AM


Yes I would try what Bernard suggests.

I guess it depends on the condition of the connector. Can't really tell from the pic but it looks bad, if all the solder points are visible on it you might be ok.



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 28, 2011, 11:37:44 AM
The connector is dead.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 28, 2011, 02:41:39 PM
Sorry to hear that.

Are you going to try and get a replacement connector or maybe led bar.

Maybe there is something similar on a broken led LG monitor ebay?

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 28, 2011, 04:19:49 PM
I think I'm gonna buy a new monitor. I saw a guy selling a LG 21.5" with LED for 80€ ... a bit expensive just to grab the LED on it but ... I don't know, I might be able to sell it as broken for some € ?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Pesho on August 28, 2011, 05:21:54 PM
Here's something i saw on the internets: replacing a monitor's back light with one of those decorative LED strips. (http://www.instructables.com/id/LED-Backlight-for-Your-LCD-Monitor-or-Television/) You could try it before spending 80€ on a brand new monitor!



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 28, 2011, 07:47:19 PM
Yeah but led strips are not as luminous as this one plus the spacing is not close enough to have an homogeneous lighting. And finally the backlight layer is very thin so the LEDs has to be right in front of it... as you can see in my test image, the LED were just a bit off ( less than 1mm ) and the lighting is just ....rubbish !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on August 28, 2011, 10:01:58 PM
Hang on to the pieces, don't throw them out just yet, just in case.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on August 29, 2011, 03:39:41 AM
LCDs without backlights: This is what the "DIY projectors" are after.
 


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: buildorbust on August 29, 2011, 08:58:18 PM
LCDs without backlights: This is what the "DIY projectors" are after.
 

This may sound stupid, and sorry to for the partial hijack, but I was thinking for my build once I have an LCD to actually build the casing first (at least as far as holds the monitor in place) and then work from the case out instead of constantly moving things all around (and potentially jacking them up). Does this seem like a reasonable plan of attack?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Pesho on August 29, 2011, 10:19:42 PM
Better make sure all the "functional components" work together, and THEN do the casing, thats what i'm doing (and also why i havent posted a build log yet :P ). In any case though, i've folded/unfolded the screen's PCB around 5 times during testing already, and im not doing it again until i have the housing ready.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 29, 2011, 10:29:39 PM
Rik I was reading this topic

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1731.30

It seems another bongofisher has a bad LG panel, maybe he kept the LED strip?

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on August 29, 2011, 11:21:52 PM
His LED strip is dead.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on August 30, 2011, 06:02:04 PM


There are two builds going on in that thread

valoruzan strip is dead and he built a new one.

brimblashman has a screen which the FFC on screen substrate has broke but i think his LED strip is intact.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: TheGreenBean on October 09, 2011, 02:30:28 PM
hey Rik!

I'm currently stripping the same monitor, I'm stuck at how to removing the LED strip from the metal plate  ??? - how did you do it/any advice?

and keep up the good work!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on October 09, 2011, 02:40:14 PM
I took my swiss knife and removed the LED with it. It's pretty well glued so the led bar might be bent a little after the operation but it's no big deal. Just straight it up after and keep the black plastic frame, it will help you to keep the leds straighten.

I'l now thinking about buying a new screen and  keep this one for something else... i dont know what. Would be a shame to use a IPS screen for a beamer ^^ I might recycle it in an arcade cocktail table. :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: TheGreenBean on October 09, 2011, 03:57:43 PM
THANK YOU! 

I was unsure if it would break - but now it looks like I'm back in business, I'm currently using my old intuos2 A3 - theres a little jitter though - but powerstrip seems to work wonders...  better revive my old topic then!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on October 17, 2011, 01:54:55 PM
 ;D
Yay!    \o/


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on October 21, 2011, 11:32:11 AM
Well, I didn't found any good solution about my LEDs so I decided to buy a new monitor. the exact same one for 136€ :'(

I think I will recycle the other one into something like an arcade cocktail table. Hope to receive it soon. I have to finish this as soon as possible because otherwise it'll finish like some of my other project ... in the closet !

I also need to retry ordering a pcb to diy beamer. My login won't work anymore so 'ill try to register with a new mail.

And the last thing : I need to find some glue to glue plexiglass.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on October 24, 2011, 06:09:13 PM
I have edit my first post to add the "cost so far" description of the project.

- used Intuos3 A3 : 270€
- brand new LG IPS226V : 179€ ( broken LED )
- brand new LG IPS226V again : 136€
- Longer FFCs for led : 5€
- FFC + PCB for the screen at DIY beamer : 24€
- Plexiglass for the casing :  55€
- Paint for the case : 8€
- 22" screen protection film : 9€

TOTAL = 686€


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Tigertron on October 24, 2011, 08:19:43 PM
I will be waiting to see about the out come. Good luck and be careful. :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on October 30, 2011, 05:56:53 AM
I'm currently in the middle of the same build. i broke my first monitor, A 22" Samsung sync-master about a year ago and i broke the next monitor i got which was that lg ips (but i got it replaced for free). The issues im having is with the back light. How are you fitting your led bar back into the plastic case around the diffusers without the metal back that held it so the light dispersion is as even as stock, also the first back light cable i had  broke right by the led bar connector (i guess too much stress with all the testing ???) and i had to cut it and sand a little bit of the plastic off to get it to work again. Did you have a similar issue and how are you preventing it from snapping?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on October 30, 2011, 02:43:42 PM
I didn't have those issues. I did put the led bar inside the black plastic frame and put a wedge to make it stick the difuser.

Oh and i received my pcb from DIY beamer... actually they did send me two of them ! I'll look if it's better to use 2 or only 1. Unfortunatelly, now I have everything but the new screen !!!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 02, 2011, 11:58:34 AM
OK ! New monitor just arrived. I'm going to test it and strip it !  I'll try to do photos this time !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 02, 2011, 12:14:44 PM

Looking forward to it...

Fingers crossed  :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 02, 2011, 02:16:16 PM
Ok... while opening that new little fellow, I broke the LCD :/

No more spare parts now I must be carefull with my last panel !

I will upload photos tonight.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 02, 2011, 06:14:09 PM
...Funeral march music playing...

Is it that bad?  :'(

With your photos, do not forget to mention a few wise words to someone trying to strip off a similar monitor.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Tigertron on November 02, 2011, 06:44:42 PM
Oh no! And I know this isn't your first BBQ. What happened? Is it that hard to take apart? I'm waiting to see the outcome because I am leaning heavy toward this monitor ATM.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 01:32:23 AM
I guess that panels are very very fragile. I damaged the second one. Nothing really bad, just a column about 7/8 pixels on the left.

BUT : I have almost finish the job ! well unfortunately I miscalculated some dimensions so I certainely will have to redo all the work but for now it's quite ok.

Now some photos !

[attachment=1]
Brand new ! just received... my waranty will void in few seconds !

[attachment=2]
Testing : it's ok !

[attachment=3]
Opening ! Well I used my swiss knife again but this one was tougher than the first one...

[attachment=4]
The back of the screen

[attachment=5]
The back of the panel. you must remove the little screws first then with a screwdriver or something else you must pop the metal frame out.

[attachment=6]
Using a knife may be a bad idea...

[attachment=7]
My precious ! I bought this screen just for this !

[attachment=8]
Installed !

[attachment=9]
Well, let's see how is going that damaged panel ... ouch ! ( that was pretty bad and then later I totally broke it !)

[attachment=10]
The frame

[attachment=11]
Intalling the frame

[attachment=12]
I forgot to take photos for a while... this is the enclosure

[attachment=13]
I 've done some thermoforming... that's pretty cool but pretty hard too

[attachment=14]

Lack of photos again but after all it works !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 03:08:50 AM
Well ... Something really bad happened ...

I was playing around doing doodle when that came :

[attachment=1]

I mean, REALLY ??? It came from nowere  and now I can't get rid of it !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 03, 2011, 03:43:11 AM
no cable passing by?

No shorts on the Wacom PCB at this location?   

In your picture over the label "Installed !"  I see no protection between the LCD and the wacom board(??). Did you put anything in sandwich to protect between each other?

If you shutoff the LCD, does it change anything?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: TheGreenBean on November 03, 2011, 10:30:01 AM
hey Rik!

when fiddleing around with the same screen for my Intuos2 - the same thing happend to me ( maybe?) i just moved the monitor boards and around a bit and the deadzone disappeared again... soo maybe?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 12:31:32 PM
Eeeerr... I hope it's not that because if it is, i'll have to redo the case ! >__<


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 01:16:14 PM
Well, I did another try, why a shield under the "whaterver it's called" thing uneder the screen as Bernard sugessted and it works ! for the moment. I have tested it fr 20 minutes but i'm going to make longer tests to see if it's nothing time/heat related.

oh yeah, about the heat....the led bar is getting EXTREMELY HOT ! So my top plexiglas layer wich is only 1.5mm thick is starting to wave/melt... :/ Does anyone knows how can I "shield" the heat ?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on November 03, 2011, 01:49:27 PM
i had the same issue with the dead spot in the same place, when i used some foil to sheild the lcd pcb it went away with only light jitter


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 02:20:13 PM
Yes, the weirdest thing is that I didn't had problems before. But now that it's shield it cool. No more dead spot. And the jitter is so light that I would say that there is no jitter ( the jitter is lighter than the one on my cintiq 12wx)
 !
Now I have another problem : the weakness of the case.I build it the wong way.. and the plexi must be too thin ... rhaaaaa !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on November 03, 2011, 03:28:40 PM
i used glass...


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 03, 2011, 03:53:44 PM
You cannot "shield the heat" (e.g. contain it) -- you have to let the heat go out.  

Make holes anywhere you can.

You can try to fit a fan in there as well.

You can also try to build some sort of "heat sink".

Essentially this is metal that "sucks the heat out" (by being as close as possible to the heat source on one side and outside on the other side. Thick wires might work (like speaker wires), but depending on how your thing is constructed, it would require a lot of trial, I do not have much experience doing this frankly.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 03:59:26 PM
Yep ... I guess it was ok when it was monted on that metal back case. The all fram should have diffuse the heat. Now it's very concentrated and I'm pretty surprised : wouldn't LED normaly be cooler than other lights ?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Tigertron on November 03, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
I am happy for you. Thanks for all the pics too.

The heat was my first impression when I saw this monitor in the store. It was a demo screen at Frys and had been on all day. When I grabbed it to check the back it was very hot.  

As Bernard mentioned you can only duct the heat away. Slots or holes to allow the heat to escape and fans to force it out. Air is a good conductor of heat but if you could mount a metal bar of some sort that would work. The heat sink Bernard mentioned. It must be physically secured to the heat source or it will act as an insulator and defeat the purpose. Fans and some ducting I think are you best option.

I would like to know what is the depth of your screen? From the face of your drawing surface to the face of the wacom.

Tony


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: TheGreenBean on November 03, 2011, 07:44:08 PM
Great you didn't need to redo the caseing - but the heat is a problem, mine gets really hot to - the heatsink idé, perhaps some old parts from graphiccards - or just a fan....


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 03, 2011, 09:48:52 PM


Excellent work Rik! glad you've got it pretty much sorted.  :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 03, 2011, 09:57:48 PM
I redid the case with the original intuos case. ( well actually it's not finished yet)

First report : I managed to put everything in that case. And I mean EVERYTHING ! Too bad that the front face is not like the A4 :'(

I even managed to install a VESA like system to attach the case to my ergotron arm. Now I'm thinking about a way to change the front face in some cosmetic manner. Maybe put the whole thing inside another box ? I don't know. or I might just sand the case and paint it... sounds boring.


Title: Yay !
Post by: Rik! on November 04, 2011, 09:57:31 PM
I mounted my new case on the ergotron arm so here's the result.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]

So it's functional but it needs some adjustements ( the top is not well tighten so the light isn't diffused very well, I need to buy a new plexi, bigger, to fit the tablet size and then i'll cut some holes for the express keys and a nice paint job )

And sorry, I didn't took photos of the WIP


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Pesho on November 04, 2011, 11:03:58 PM
Congratulations! So you are using the wacom tablet case? Can you show some close-ups of it?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Tigertron on November 04, 2011, 11:37:40 PM
Looks good. I still would like to know how deep your monitor+face plate ended up being.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 04, 2011, 11:56:29 PM
oh yes, sorry. It's about 8mm.

So as Pesh asked, I'm putting some close up

[attachment=1]
The arm clamp. I used a wall mount plate on the inside. I glued it and added some bolts that I glued too.



[attachment=2]
Still on the back :  the plugs. as you can see, it's all inside !



[attachment=3]
It exactly fits the case ! amazing ! I didn't cut holes for the express keys because I wont use that plexiglass in the end. I will certainely cu that case to align the buttons with the surface.



[attachment=4]
Well. that's not beautiful at all ...




[attachment=5]
the only flaw...the touch sensitive bar... It controls the OSD. Its cool but the conector is perpendicular an it's about 1mmtoo long so the bar is 1mm above the thickness of the case... :/ I really need to figure this out !



[attachment=6]
Overall view... well, still got a homemade look !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 05, 2011, 12:18:45 AM
Oh ! and look at this : [attachment=1] It's closed ! No gap, nothing ! It all fit's in there ! In fine, that case is great !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: haunted on November 05, 2011, 12:31:11 AM
yeah ! i'm glad you finally solve your problems !
Even with this homemade look, it's pretty cool !! Good job =)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on November 07, 2011, 04:53:40 PM
Really nice!! ;D


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: luxeomni on November 07, 2011, 06:36:20 PM
so it is the original intuos case ?
mmm great find, i m tempted to do the same as yours if minimum case work is needed.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 07, 2011, 11:02:46 PM
Yep ! That's the original case. I just cuted some holes, in the case, in the metal plate and the polystyrene to put the lcd controler.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 08, 2011, 10:17:51 AM



Excellent news, my IPS226v just arrived, didn't want to take a chance on the new model IPS225 as its got an internal powersupply.

Quick question, what causes more interference?  the LED bar or the LCD driver board that you unfold from underneath the screen?
Did you align to bottom of the LCD screen to be bottom of the wacoms active area, the top of the LCD screen to the top
of the wacoms active area or the screen in the middle of tablets active area?

Did you sheild the LCD circuit board (the one that you fold out) with foil?

I think i'm going to try and fit in the wacom case too.


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 08, 2011, 11:59:14 AM
First of all  be VERY carefull with ALL the components. I've been careless with the difusers..  It's very fragile. Dont touch it with your bare fingers and protect it from anything dirty ( all the layers, especialy the thick one)

About what causes interferences, that's the lcd board attached to the panel. I shielded it using the metal plate that wad on it when I unstripped  the monitor.

For the placement, the intuos cases decided for me ^^.

If you want to put all in the case, you'll have some work on it. Sorry I didn't take photos, I guess it would have been useful. I can't even open the wacom again because I move the panel around way to much and now It's showing some signs of weakness on the lcd attached FFCs.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 08, 2011, 12:42:38 PM


Thanks Rik!, the idea about using the metal plate for sheilding the lcd board is very good. I will use that.

At the moment I am thinking about it a lot, I only want to do it once and avoid moving it around...

I have a plan about doing this all, will just have to see if it works (fingers crossed).

Please do not open up your tablet again, it will be very risky.

I am just waiting for the FFC's and connectors to arrive today then I will get started.
I will try to take pictures of what I do but it will be with a phone camera, and low lighting. Hopefully it will help the next person...


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 08, 2011, 07:42:39 PM
Oh and by the way, I used 2 ffc extenders.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 08, 2011, 09:33:02 PM
Cool,

I am just getting started now, had a busy day.

How do you undo the FFC's from the boards in the monitor?

I do not like the vesa mounting system on the back of the monitor, the holes for the plate are two different heights?

I am thinking about putting the monitor back on the rear of the wacom...


Its going to be a long night :)

I will post pics tomorrow...


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 09, 2011, 02:41:10 AM
I didn't use the monitor's vesa mounting system. it's a 75mm system so I guess it's too smal for a big fat case like the intuos !


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 03:00:06 AM


Well its 2am and i've only just managed to dismantle everything and prepare some things.

I will need to solder pairs of ffc connectors together as I did'nt want to wait for DIY-beamer and their ffc boards.
This is proving very fiddly indeed and I waisted a few hours doing this and not ended up with any usable ones.
Capillary action is bridging the pins and my soldering Iron has too big a point for the fine work needed.

I think this is gonna take a few days.

Also can you tell me how to undo the FFC cables on the monitor?
Do you just pull them out?


Jan



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 09, 2011, 03:55:12 AM
soldering:  apply flux --- LOTS. (I use liquid flux and also the rosin pen). Flux will help avoiding bridging.  The idea is to solder a very, very little amount of soldering on each pad, barely enough to "paint" the pads. -- (do each side separately) -- then align carefully (with tape or whatever to hold it all) -- then simply apply heat. You want the touching pads to glue onto each other, that's all.  Test with a multimeter (probably you already did that).

If you have spare FFC parts try yourself on that before, try to find a technique that best fits you.

take pictures. :)



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 10:08:01 AM


Thanks for the tips.

Unfortunatly I have run out of spare molex connectors so from now on they would have to be perfect.

I can order from Farnell at about £1 each with next day delivery free so if I mess these up I can get replacements quickly.

Here is my idea of making a home made diy beamer connector.

Jan

Not sure if you can tell but there's about half a mm spacing between the pins


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 09, 2011, 12:16:53 PM
Sounds good to me. Be carefull with those conectors, it seems like your soldering job is touching multiple tracks.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 12:40:41 PM


Yes this is the problem i'm having, capillary action on the solder is bridging connections sometimes.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 05:40:17 PM
Rik how do you undo the ffc's from the screen?

just pull them out?


thanks,

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 09, 2011, 07:12:28 PM
Oh! you are soldering connectors directly? I thought it was the FFC themselves. That's cool (because you see what you are doing, contrary to soldering 2 FFC cables directly).

Yes 0.5mm is very common for LCDs.

But how are you doing the connection -- just with the "tip" of the pads?  You do not make them overlap?

What about soldering the connector directly onto a piece of FFC cable? I mean scrape the top plastic on a portion of FFC cable and use it as "PCB" to solder the pads on. I think they should align correctly. If this works, it would become a "viable" (yet difficult) alternative to DIY beamer -- and we really need an alternative to this FFC extension problem!!!

I know the pin gap is extremely small, but what about finding something so thin that you could temporarily "insert" between the pins to block the bridging? It would have to "resist" heat a little. Maybe plain paper would do? (humidify it a little to help resist heat maybe?)



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 07:47:06 PM
Success with the ffc connectors... just have to test with a multimeter if I can find where I put it...

What I did was go out and get a fine tip capable of touching induvidual pins, some of the best solder I could
find none of the crap stuff i had before and it worked like a charm no mistakes.

See attached pic.

Jan



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: xguy on November 09, 2011, 10:42:07 PM
how is your jitter now?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 09, 2011, 11:07:21 PM
sorry riks build is seperate from mine but were using the same screen and tablet.

I was just asking questions in this thread.

I'm gonna find my multimeter first then do an assembly at the weekend. Just want to assemble once to minimize risk.

Jan


Title: Yay !
Post by: Rik! on November 11, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
Today, my neighbour gave me a Dell 1303FP ... Too bad I sold my intuos3 A4 3 years ago ... And I didn't sold it enough ! Now I got to find a new a4 tablet for not much ^^so I can offer a DIY cinitq to a friend :)

Oh and btw, my "Cintuos" in almost finish.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 11, 2011, 07:57:29 PM
rik
could you tell me or take a few pictures of your broken screen to show how you put the diffuser, plastic frame and how to align the led strips. i am really stuck
thanks
jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 11, 2011, 08:04:14 PM
Erf .. I cant take photos anymore because it's all mounted now.
But I can tell you how I did :

I put the difuser layer in the same order as the original screen on a thin cardboard piece ( a little less than 1mm ).
I put the led bar inside the plastic frame and put the frame on the diffuser. ( the cardbord is made for leveling, so the difuser will be right in front of the leds.)

I guess it will help.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 11, 2011, 08:41:22 PM
thanks
did you stick the leds to the plastic frame or just put them in the plastic frame without glue/ tape
jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 11, 2011, 09:03:39 PM
there was enough glu left on it.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 11, 2011, 09:16:09 PM
thanks i appreciate it

jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 11, 2011, 10:23:39 PM


Rik, did you get any dust on the diffuser sheets?
Or on the lcd screen back.
If so does it show up when you switch your screen on?

Do you put the led strip down as far as it will go dow in the plastic frame?


Oh man this is a very different build to a laptop screen

The backplate of the diffuser is two pressed metal peices with in this a plastic frame and on top of this the screen.
Below the plastic frame the sheets and acrylic you find common to all diffusers.

The whole thing is held together with clips and screws...

The led strip is stuck with mastic to the pressed metal sheets. To get this out you have to dismantle the whole thing.

I am very scared with this one.....

sorry for all the questions...


Jan



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Rik! on November 11, 2011, 11:24:15 PM
You will see everything that is on or between the layers so keep it clean and dont touch the difuser with your bare hands like I did ...  the "points" on it are very very fragile and even if you don't see ani changes, you will see when the light is on. I touched it once, trying to clean the slick surface, now I can see were my fingers went... So watch out.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 11, 2011, 11:33:57 PM
  Too late i think i might have touched them :(

I'm gonna try and assemble everything tomorrow...

Will let you know how it goes.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 12, 2011, 03:35:25 AM
successful FFC "jumper" connectors:  Oh wow! This is just great!  are they easy to break?

An alternative to DIY Beamer: This is something I have been waiting for a long time.

We need to have a sticky for this. Would you be kind to create a new thread under "Tutorials and useful knowledge" on how to do this, I will stickify it.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 12, 2011, 11:04:31 AM


Bernard, the connectors look pretty solid and you can't bend them so I guess they're ok.

Tested with the multimeter and they give a nice signal. You just have to make sure
you get the solder to flow across both contacting pins properly.

Yes i will do a tutorial, but I think unless you're really good at soldering only 1mm pitch is possible...
0.5mm pitch would be too challenging.


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 12, 2011, 04:52:38 PM
Just add a warning for the fine pitch and difficulty level.  Some people (like you!) can do it so maybe others can also.

BTW, you do not need to make full-fledge "soldering" tutorial. It could be just talking about your experience doing it. You can also say that good soldering skills are required to do this. At minimum, just dump the information about the stuff you [creatively] found. (part numbers, special techniques you used, pitfalls you got into, you can just point to your the post in the other thread for people to read your past experience).  Just the idea alone is worth 85% of the tutorial I would say.  :)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 13, 2011, 03:03:34 AM
Damn I don't know if I broke the screen somehow...

What happened was first time I turn the screen on it worked, but some colours are were not right.

Then I unplug the LVDS cable and plug it back and now just multicoloured verticle lines...
I've tried unpluging and repluging the LVDS cable but still just verticle lines.

I have been exteemly careful with the screen, thats why its taken me to long to prepare everything etc...

Maybe the signal from my custom ffc's connectors are not strong enough?

or is my screen broke  :(


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on November 13, 2011, 04:01:30 AM
Can you try to use the original FFC connection?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 13, 2011, 05:54:19 PM
Hi,


Well been trying everthing to see what the problem is and it turns out the screen is ok.

Its the craziest thing..  I wrapped and grounded my FFC's in aluminium tape and it turns out
this was causing major interference with the LVDS ffc singnal...

Me and my bright Idea's.... ::)

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Drewid on November 14, 2011, 02:42:45 PM
soldering:  apply flux --- LOTS. (I use liquid flux and also the rosin pen). Flux will help avoiding bridging.  The idea is to solder a very, very little amount of soldering on each pad, barely enough to "paint" the pads. -- (do each side separately) -- then align carefully (with tape or whatever to hold it all) -- then simply apply heat. You want the touching pads to glue onto each other, that's all.  Test with a multimeter (probably you already did that).

If you have spare FFC parts try yourself on that before, try to find a technique that best fits you.

take pictures. :)



Also you can use desoldering braid to suck the solder from the gaps, similar to this:
http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101/


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 14, 2011, 04:54:21 PM
Yes I had to use the desoldribg brade a few times its indespensible

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 14, 2011, 06:24:39 PM


Ok i've got a problem..

I cannot get the curser to follow the pen movements properly.
The screen is smaller in width and height compared with the tablet active area
and so  there is underun and overrun on the curser when I move from one
side of the screen to the other using the pen.

Not sure how to set it up in the wacom driver so the curser follows the pen exactly?

Until I can get this done I'm stuck...

Here's an pic of how far i've got so far.


Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Ryanwc on November 15, 2011, 01:16:46 AM


Ok i've got a problem..

I cannot get the curser to follow the pen movements properly.
The screen is smaller in width and height compared with the tablet active area
and so  there is underun and overrun on the curser when I move from one
side of the screen to the other using the pen.

Not sure how to set it up in the wacom driver so the curser follows the pen exactly?

Until I can get this done I'm stuck...

Here's an pic of how far i've got so far.


Jan

Yeah, I think the best way to get cursor alignment is to go into wacom tablet properties and under mapping--->tablet area: go to portion. You can manually enter in the dimensions for what works best, or you can click to define. But... I think part of your problem is the actual height difference from wacom sensor board to pen tip. The further from the wacom board, the less accurate it will be. And likewise, the closer your pen is to the actual board, the more accurate it becomes. This is in part because of how your eyes see in perspective.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Tigertron on November 15, 2011, 08:39:30 PM
I haven't done this yet but I did see there are two dimensions you can change. One is for the display size and one for the active area. I guess both need to be set. Riki should know.

Ryanwc does bring up and interesting point. Does the resolution of the pen change the further you get from the pad? It intuitively seems logical. The matrix is a pcb and the pen must have some direction ability because the pad does detect tilt. Hmmm

As for your shielding the FFC what you did was create a choke around the cable and choked the high frequency signals. If yo need to shield it try shielding just one side and don't wrap the foil around.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 15, 2011, 09:50:01 PM
I haven managed to get it so its usable, I've done it so the cursor and pen are perfectly matched in the center of screen, but once you get to the edges I get apporox 5mm drift, not bad but i still have
to spend some time doing this, i'm still building it so hav'nt had the time.

Interesting about the choke and high frequency signals...

The screen does not need shielding so far, there is jitter but once you start drawing its smooth..

oh had a  slight accident and killed two horizontal lines approx a third of the way down... :(

jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 16, 2011, 02:08:31 AM


Ok most of it is done just got to figure out how i'm going to put the glass/plexiglass on....

having a play now with some temporary 4mm glass on and the curser drift although still there I can now see that pointer at all times so its
not a big deal. Before I had nothing on the screen and the cursor was ending up behind the pen tip...

I have noticed that with the glass on its approx 14mm from the wacom board surface and i'm now getting a small amount of jitter whilst drawing...

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: monet on November 16, 2011, 05:09:15 AM
I have a smaller screen too, intuos4 m with aspire one happy 10", I have to set the mapping area by guessing and testing the cursor, I did it horizontally first and then vertically (width then height) because of the jitter on the lower part of the screen about an inch wide across the screens lower part, and disable the force proportion. I have no further idea how to eliminate the jitter.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 16, 2011, 11:27:36 AM
Yes because he screen width is a little smaller the only way eould be to guess and manually input the numbers..

the jitter is where the screen flipout circuit is soi i'm gonna enclose that in metal, but what do i earth this metal to?
the flip out boards earths or the earth under the wacom board?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: monet on November 16, 2011, 06:20:01 PM
I read that the pcb and shields need grounding, solder a wire back to the laptop, there are two metal arms on the sides of the lcd, depends on your laptop model.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on November 28, 2011, 07:36:30 PM
Hi Rik and Jan!

I have an Intuos and ips236 monitor on order and am trying to figure out what sort of FFCs and extenders I need.  I read through this thread a couple times and it sounds like Rik only extended the 7-pin FFC but Jan built extenders for both FFCs, but I'm not sure why.  If I'm looking at the pictures correctly, the only reason the FFCs need extending is so the LED bar can be moved to the top of the screen, but I was wondering if I could just rotate the screen 180 degrees and flip the display vertically in Windows control panel so it appears right side up again?  I tried that sort of flip on one monitor in a two-monitor configuration and it looks like it would work fine.  In that case, am I correct that no FFCs would need to be extended?

Thanks for your pioneering efforts!


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 28, 2011, 10:35:02 PM


Hi,

The ips236v is slighlty different but here is some info on my setup.

I chose to extend the 7 pin and 30 connectors because I picked these up pretty cheap and wanted to be able to route the wires to the controller board to avoid the active area
of the intous as much as I could.

You will need the 7 pin extensions as a minimum because the original ffc's are designed in such a way as to allow the ffcs to reach their sockets on a screen thats not dismantled
with the circuit board flipped out from behind it.

Yes the the whole screen is flipped upside down in default. You can't just take the led bar out from the bottom and put it to the top...

I am able to configure a main monitor and the ips226v indipendently in the windows drivers when "extended desktop" is used.... (so you can flip the ips226v on the wacom the right way up in windows)
but when the desktop view is "duplicated" either the main screen or the wacom screen end up upside down or vice versa. You cannot configure independly when using duplicated desktop in windows.


Hope this helps...

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on November 28, 2011, 11:10:48 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!  I meant to say I'd ordered the ips226v, not ips236v.

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1967.0;attach=4765;image makes it look like the 7 pin could easily reach if the connection to the LED bar were on the bottom right and the board with the DVI connectors were flipped around to the back and placed somewhere around the lower right...  I must be missing something.

That's an interesting point about mirrored vs extended monitors.  I would think I'd want to use an extended monitor configuration with such a large tablet - there would be no reason not to put Photoshop completely on the tablet monitor and ignore the main monitor, would there?  I don't think I can mirror my monitor with the tablet anyway because my main monitor is a 4:3 CRT - wrong aspect ratio.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said "Yes the the whole screen is flipped upside down in default. You can't just take the led bar out from the bottom and put it to the top...".  It was my understanding that what Rik did was pry out the LED bar in order to separate the layers of the screen and rotate some of the layers but not others such that the LED bar ended up on top and the screen image was rotated.  But he broke a screen doing that and in another thread he said it was probably better not to disassemble the screen and just accept the 7mm thickness.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 29, 2011, 12:00:14 AM

You want the ffcs to bend round the back of the wacom sensor board, I mean right round the back aound the foam and metal plate the wacom board sits on. The
ffc's just wont reach and would be considerably strained, you want to avoid strain on components.. Make no mistake these screens are delicate and its very
easy to damage them. I have two dead horizontal rows and I was pretty careful with everything. I inadvertantly touch some of the brown foils at the side
of the screen when it slipped whilst I was aligning to the wacom sensor.

I am going to get another screen...

You won't have a problem with extended desktop and screen orientation.

Originally when reading riks build I got the same impression as you.

However...

The diffuser is made up of the usual stuff, a plastic frame, diffusion elements etc...  Now the led bar is taped into a grove on a pressed sheet metal that sits
within the diffuser. You have to dismatle the screen, diffuser, to get this sheet metal out and then the led out of that. This sheet metal covers the back of the
whole screen so has to be removed.

The screen is then put together as it was before minus the sheet metal. You don't need to rotate some elements or flip bits etc... this would serve no purpose.

Now problem is that with this sheet metal removed how do you put the led bar in, rik aligned it to the plastic frame...  I am unsure of exactly how this was done
in Riks build and its something I asked clarification on if you look through the thread..

I've gone into some other stuff here but to be clear "the led bar is not taken from the bottom to put at the top".

Imagine this you have your ips226v infront of you. You rotate it 180 degrees... thats it.  the led bar is now sitting at the top....   When dismantled
the flip out board from the screen would be along the bottom...

Thats all thats needed...

look at the pic carefully

Jan


wait a few hours i'm going to start my build topic and hopefully this will help.. I have taken pics...  I was going to start this once my project was complete but
I have a little time so will start this off.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on November 29, 2011, 12:13:47 AM
It's odd because Rik said in another thread "don't try to gain some mm  as I did ! remove all you can except the black plastic "casing" around the panel. your panel will be around 7/8mmthick and it's really ok. I tried to make it thiner and ... you saw what happened !"  But from your description it sounds like you have to disassemble it.  I don't suppose there's any chance the Wacom would work through the metal sheet...

Can you confirm if it's a 7 pin FFC I need, or 6 or 8?  Looking back at my notes I wrote that it was actually a 6 pin connector, 7mm wide, but in your pictures (http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1967.0;attach=5210;image) it looks like you've got 8 pin sockets.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 29, 2011, 12:15:58 AM


I will check everything over in a bit and then post in my topic. Give me a few hours.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on November 29, 2011, 01:20:21 AM

Sorry but just looked at my pics and there are no pics that you need. I was in major panic when I opened the screen up and did not take any pics that would be usefull for taking the thing apart.

The LED ffc extension is 6 pin 1mm pitch.
The Other ffc extension is 30pin 1 mm pitch.

Now to clarify what rik!  was saying...

The black plastic frame holds the diffuser components... an acrylic sheet and some diffusion sheets. The plastic frame causes some seperation between these sheets.
Rik! is saying keep the pastic frame to hold these sheets apart, don't try to gain a few mm less thickenss by modifying this frame.

BTW...

here is a pic showing the pressed metal that holds the led bar in place. It needs to be taken out as it covers the back of the screen, the signal will not get through this... It clips
to the plastic frame I talked about earlier... to get this thing out the screen needs to be taken off the diffuser... the diffusser sheets taken out  (these need to be kept together and not
allowed to fall out or get mixed up).

Once this metal plate is removed you get take out the led bar...

This metal plate is the reason the screen needs to be completely dismantled.

Jan

see pics below showing pressed metal plate and plastic frame with diffuser bits inside.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on November 29, 2011, 01:51:06 AM
Alright, thanks for the clarification!  Here's another good pic of where the LED bar comes from: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2029.0;attach=5132

I finally found Rik's post I remembered about flipping the screen:
"About the LED I didn't fliped it, I kept them in their place, I just flipped the whole screen so the LEDs are on top side. And i'm sorry I think I didn't get the last part of your post but I'll try to answer :
As I didn't moved the LED bar there is no problem but if I did so, I would have turn all the layers but the panel so the light would still be homogeneous."

So it does sound like Rik didn't flip it but that you could, in theory, flip some of the screen layers in order to put the LED bar on the other side without flipping the picture and then maybe you wouldn't need the FFC extension...  but rotating just some layers is probably too risky of an operation to be worth it and you might get dust between the layers even if you didn't damage anything.

You asked earlier how Rik aligned the LED to the plastic frame...  Maybe this is how?
"I put the difuser layer in the same order as the original screen on a thin cardboard piece ( a little less than 1mm ).
I put the led bar inside the plastic frame and put the frame on the diffuser. ( the cardbord is made for leveling, so the difuser will be right in front of the leds.)"



Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on November 29, 2011, 10:09:11 PM
How long total do you think the 6 pin FFC should be?  Rik mentioned 300mm in one post, 400mm in another, but I'm not sure if either of those lengths were meant to replace the existing 6pin cable or to extend it.  If meant as an extension, it seems like you could replace the existing cable with say a 700mm long cable and avoid buying FFC extenders.  That's if you could find someone to cut you a non-standard, extra long cable (www.gopherelectronics.com sounds like they might do that).


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on December 01, 2011, 11:14:12 AM
how much would it cost for the 6pin ffc?   for 50cm and 100cm?     if its only going to be a few pounds/dollars then just get as long as you can.
The length will depend on how you want to route it really.

The 6pin ffc can be replaced but the
30 pin ffc cannot as its got a different connector on one side so this one needs to be extended if you need to do so.

There are lots of ways of doing this I would recommend you work out the position where you want the controller box first then measure the extensions or ffc  replacement lenghts.

Also keep in mind if you place the controller box somewhere and get jitter you might need to move it so have a bit in reserve for the ffc/ffc's.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on December 01, 2011, 03:06:29 PM
if you plan ffc length, do not forget they are wide and flat and thus difficult to "bend sideways"  you typically make a sharp 90 or 180 turn by folding them -- use a piece of paper to test.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: DonShole on December 03, 2011, 12:14:15 AM
Alright, thanks for the clarification!  Here's another good pic of where the LED bar comes from: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2029.0;attach=5132

You could keep the LED bar in the metal frame and cut through the aluminium with a strong pair of scissors.  see this video from 2:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ5aeb8Z0JY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ5aeb8Z0JY)


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on December 03, 2011, 12:55:28 AM
Quote
You could keep the LED bar in the metal frame and cut through the aluminium with a strong pair of scissors.  see this video from 2:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ5aeb8Z0JY

That's kind of an awesome idea.  Does anyone who's worked with this monitor think that could be done safely without scratching/cutting anything important?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on December 03, 2011, 03:07:55 AM

Yes this is exactly what I did.

The pressed metal sheet has raised sections that clip into the plastic black frame to keep it in place.

I used a dremel to carefully cut the metal sheet near the led.

The led sits in a groove in the cut metal piece as it originally did and everything is aligned perfectly with the diffuser when this modified peice is clipped in the black frame.

See the pic showing led bar and the cut metal frame.

Jan

 


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on December 05, 2011, 03:06:05 AM
Quote
I used a dremel to carefully cut the metal sheet near the led.

The led sits in a groove in the cut metal piece as it originally did and everything is aligned perfectly with the diffuser when this modified peice is clipped in the black frame.

Sweet.

So, I've started taking my Intuos 1 apart and it's got a controller board in the back, followed by a piece of sheet metal, about 1cm thick styrofoam, and then the green sensor board.  I was thinking of replacing sheet metal and styrofoam with thin plastic or paperboard to make room for the monitor in front of the sensor (it might fit fully in the wacom case), but I wonder if the sheet metal and the gap between metal and sensor is important to the sensor in some way?  At a minimum I assume the metal prevents interference from the Intuos controller board.  How did you set yours up?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on December 05, 2011, 05:50:31 AM
Another question about FFC length:

A couple people in build logs (http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1915.0) mention that extending the cables that power the CCFL tubes makes the tubes dimmer.  Did you notice any difference after extending the 6C FFC that powers the LED bar?  Maybe that isn't a problem with LED.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on December 05, 2011, 06:07:03 AM
Do NOT remove the metal back plate. This is specially formulated metal to reflect the EM/RF -- actually, I am not sure what it is. but I only know that you do not want to remove it - not even "bend it" . Imagine a mirror -- you want it to be perfectly flat.   The distance (the foam) is also important. 


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on December 05, 2011, 06:27:00 AM
Quote
Do NOT remove the metal back plate. This is specially formulated metal to reflect the EM/RF -- actually, I am not sure what it is. but I only know that you do not want to remove it - not even "bend it" . Imagine a mirror -- you want it to be perfectly flat.   The distance (the foam) is also important.

Thanks, Bernard.  I've looked at a number of build logs and nobody ever mentions or shows what's behind the sensor board in their build.  In fact, in every pic I've found so far, there appears to be almost nothing behind the sensor board.  I'm having trouble finding any build logs using the GD-1218 however.  I don't see how anyone possibly fits the monitor in the Intuos case without removing that foam... maybe it's different in newer Intuos?


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: janm on December 05, 2011, 12:09:30 PM


Yes do not remove the metal back plate or the foam from behind the wacom sensor board. Without it there performance will be effected quite a lot and you'll get all sorts of
weird stuff happening to the cursor.

To get my monitor screen in to the board, I had to cut the top plastic on the wacom board to the same size as the screen I put in.

On mine the screen is approx 8mm thick with the diffuser so it will stick above the plane of the wacoms plastic a few mm's but this is not a problem as we have
plenty of headway before the board cannot sense the pen.

At this stage you would cover the screen with some protective sheet. I am thinking of using 2mm thick lexan.

Jan


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: Dragon on December 05, 2011, 06:35:50 PM
Thanks for the info.  I think I'm going to try getting 2mm glass to fit behind the front of the Intuos.  I think there are plastic ridges that could be cut out to hold the glass in place behind the cover.  Obviously this will leave the case open around the edges, but I think I can reinforce the screw pegs and maybe glue in some fine wire mesh so the open crack acts as ventilation without letting anything too big inside.
I know you can use acrylic and felt nibs instead of nylon nibs, but my wife always wears lots of jewelry and I think that will scratch the acrylic.  I also fear acrylic will bend in the middle on such a large screen unless you make it thick, which reduces the pen accuracy.


Title: Re: 21.5' Cintuos [WIP]
Post by: bernard on December 05, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
One build used a very nice "Mac-looking" metal mesh to close the "gap" or do something like that.  Look at the pictures of Wei's iTab --  http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1290.0