Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Successful builds! => Topic started by: cabroon on December 06, 2012, 06:01:48 AM



Title: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 06, 2012, 06:01:48 AM
So today I start my build log. 

-Grammar nazis, don´t get mad at me. English is not my native language-

I have been drooling for a cintiq. I found this forum, and I went through most of its posts, absorbing as much knowledge and experience from other members.

I already own an AOC 21.5”  e2243fw monitor, which I bought about six months ago in order to make this build.


I plan to build my tablet following the blueprints from “The Anntiq”, some differences with the monitor size, -The Anntiq used a 23” inch monitor and had some issues with fitting the screen to the tablet.
My build uses the same monitor that they use on the Tabletmod large build, so it has been tried and proof working before.  The dimensions measured on the Simtiq planner show a perfect fit (The tablet being an itsy bit bigger than the screen, so some adjustments should be made with the drivers.) Hopefully I wont run in so much trouble fitting it inside the intuos 4.

[attachment=2]
What really inspired me was the approach on The anntiq build, keeping most of the original front cover of the intuos4xl (just cutting for the screen window.) so no modifications or need to dismantle the frontal buttons, displays or touch slide ring. Most of the modifications were made in the back part of the tablet. SO even if I break the back part of it, I can still make a case (wood, aluminum, PVC, but the front part will be kept mostly unaltered.) Knowing that the Anntiq build had little to no jitter after grounding the screen with the tablet was also a big plus.

It worries me the FFC that connects the front and back part of the tablet. I really don´t want to damage that cable, since finding a replacement in my country might prove a bit difficult. So i´m already working on a temporary stand to hold the open tablet during the experimental phase, without fear of pulling and damaging the fcc. More on that later.   

I am decently good with electronics, inventing and building stuff. Also my brother is an electrical engineer that is also very interested and will help me in my proyect with the technical details (if he can find the spare time…)

I placed an order for an intuos 4 XL (745$ us + 16% tax in Mexico... 800something  USD),  I already made the deposit and I just confirmed in the packaging service online page  that my tablet is on it´s way, so there is no turning back now. I´ll be receiving it by Dec 7.
It was a panic induced adquisition, based on the fact that it is impossible to get an inutos3 12x19" in my country and that the Intuos 4 line has been replaced with the intuos5 line which does not comes with an XL model. So I considered my last opportunity to make this build and fulfill my dream of a cintiq. 


So this build will be named the CABROONTIQ (very original right?)

I am really serious about this build, I even came up with an articulated contraption to mount my cabroontinq, since it´s going to be my main monitor for web browsing and working.
I brainstormed long and hard, studied luxo lamps structure and articulations and tried to adapt it to my needs and this is what I came up with.
At the moment this is just a mini cardboard version of what it will become, but it worked better than I imagined.
You can use this as blueprints for your own stand/mount.
Maybe some of you can come with lots of improvements on my design.
Hey... Maybe we can start a new forum topic about DIY monitor stands !!

I´ve always been better showing things graphically than explaining them, so refer to the image in case of doubt.
 
Upright it stands at a confortable height, with a slight tilt upward for ergonomics. Leaves free deskspace for working with keyboard and mouse.
When you want to work on it as a tablet, you just extend it forward and place it almost flat on your desk with a slight angle for better viewing. Ideal measurements might even place it hanging at the edge of your desk, like the cintiq 24hd stand ( which was my inspiration for this). But it would have to be customized to each one´s workplace. The mouse and keyboard have to be put aside.
Also it would have to be fixed to the back edge of the desk with screws or some sort of lock release bolts.
[attachment=1]


Still working on giving it some sort of spring or neumatic resistance, so it supports the weight of the screen and the tablet altogether during the vertical to flat transition -estimated weight of the tablet+monitor is 6 kg ... 12 pounds give or less-. . Also working a possible solution with quick release bicicle bolts for locking it in place at an intermediate angle (as the cintiq 24 hd does, allowing a small space underneath it to work with your keyboard).

So I am all in for this, any advice is welcomed, give me some pointers, and mostly ...

Wish me luck!!
Cabroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: bernard on December 06, 2012, 02:17:58 PM
nice drawing!

This looks like it will be an awesome build. Hope for the better!

There are no Intuos5 XL ?  I did not realize that.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Dikymon on December 06, 2012, 03:08:20 PM
I like the stand idea; bicycle quick release... brilliant :)


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on December 07, 2012, 02:17:19 AM
Hey Cabroon,
Great build, i like the idea for the stand. You got a technical drawing of it already? I think with a spring you should be able to slow it down. The spring should be stretched to the maximum halfway the movement and it should be stretched less at the bottom and the top of the movement. Let me tinker a little bit about it...


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Aerendraca on December 08, 2012, 02:59:32 PM
Looks good so far, can't wait to see how you get on with the build.


Title: Tablet finally arrived!!
Post by: cabroon on December 09, 2012, 07:57:21 PM
Back with more.
Took some time to post something new, because drivers weren´t working, tablet kept disconnecting and pressure sensitivity didn´t worked.
I installed the latest drivers from wacom, so Tablet is up and running. Yeah, its huge, takes up a lot of desk space, my little bamboo pales in comparison.
I already set the tablet to forced proportions, Might tweak the active area later.
I am going to start the monitor dismantling.
Some pics.
[attachment=1]
perfect fit
[attachment=2]
And here is the monster.


Title: In response to Lazy mosquito
Post by: cabroon on December 09, 2012, 09:29:32 PM
I found some places that sell springs of different sizes and resistance.
There is also a pneumatic cilinder at home depot used for vertical cabinet doors.
The newest idea That came to mind, is bungee hooked cords used to hold cargo on a car.

I already have 4 or 5 bike bolts. On e of those I used for mi monitor vertical stand.

I dont have any technical drawing, since I didnt had the phisical reference of the tablet. Also I am not sure if my monitor base will be used as a VESA base mount or I will have to do another adaptation.


Title: fcc cable extension. Will it work? need help.
Post by: cabroon on December 17, 2012, 07:52:43 PM
So I went to an electronics supplier, showed them the pic of the fcc cable (from the anntiq build log http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2185.0;attach=6005;image ) that connects the front buttons of the intuos 4 to the tablet.
I couldn´t find an exact 18 pin match. But I found a 24 pin that I think will get the job done.
Here is a comparison pic:
[attachment=1]

To the left is the cable I got, to the right is the fcc cable from the intuos4 xl (image taken from The Anntiq build for research purposes.)
I scaled the image to fit the dimensions (mantaining original proportions) So as you can see they are very similar. Only thing that bothers me is that the intuos terminals (the metal exposed parts of the cable) seem a bit wider.

I request help in order to cut/trim the cable down to only 18 pins. Could it be done? Any suggestion is welcomed.

By the way the cable is 15 cms long, which is just right for me, and it costed about 3 dollars.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on December 17, 2012, 11:58:54 PM
You could use this one:
http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552 (http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552)
I bought it myself and it works perfect.
Only check if you need a rev (reverse) or a normal one.
The reverse has his contacts on both ends on the opposite sides. With the normal one the contacts are on the same side (seems logical  ::) )
Check out all the specifications first (this one has a pitch of 0.5 mm, has 18 ways, is reversed and is 200 mm long.)


Title: random thought on new ideas
Post by: cabroon on December 18, 2012, 06:27:08 PM
Just some random thoughts.
What if you made a portable cintiq? Portable meaning that it has the same size as an intuos M or L and that both the tablet and the monitor are powered via usb from a laptop.

It would suck your laptops batteries dry, but you would only need to plug it on any wall socket.

That wild thought crossed my mind when I found that there are portable monitors powered by usb.

[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
[attachment=4]




The other technology available ( new but very expensive) are the OLED screens, which are very very thin (membrane thin) and flexible screens, with amazing contrast, but further investigations revealed some issues with temperature management.
[attachment=5]
Screen breakdown here:
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=243

If you could overcome the temperature issues, imagine placing this membrane thin screen over your tablet and instantly turning it into a cintiq!!!


A final idea that I didn´t seem to find in the forum.
Now that I received my intuos4 xl, and considering its massive size, the matte gray active area could be used as a proyection surface for one of those new portable proyectors.

to prevent the glare, and the proyected shadow, the light from the proyector would have to come from the opposite side of yout dominant hand (i tested it with some led flashlights)

[attachment=1]


Boy, I wish I was rich to buy all this stuff and try all these ideas.

I hope someone finds the inspiration to give this ideas a try.



Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: bernard on December 18, 2012, 11:24:18 PM
There a few projector-based cintiq talks (and I think at least one if not more that tried it) in this forum. (the "Projectiq" http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1556.msg10371;topicseen#msg10371)  (The seniortiq  http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1829.0 ) 

I remember seeing photos of this, but I can't spot them right this moment, it would require more digging in the forum.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 24, 2012, 07:11:45 AM
IT IS ALIVE !!!! MWHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sorry about the screaming. I am so excited !!!!

The story so far:
Today I started dismantling the monitor, I followed the tablet mod youtube tutorial to the letter, though, some things I had to figure them out myself.
It was tricky to work with the base partially dissasembled while trying to strip and disconnect the cables from the back of the monitor. 

Some issues with opening the case, since  some of the latches are stronger in som places and I was afraid to break them.

A little difference is that the grounding on the monitor from the video tutorial is attached to the metal structure of the base. In my monitor, the grounding is attached to a metal panel that covers the control board.

Had to gather some balls for cutting the back shielding that houses the led strip. The led strip frame defomred a little, but it was easy to rectify with pliers afterwards.

I highly recommend this monitor, since it resisted my clumsy attemps at dismantling it, even some unexpected pulls and pushes on some wires.

After putting it all back together, I plugged it again and set it over my intuos 4, just to see what happened and VOILA! it worked!!!

Yeah, jitters and all, but it worked!!! no need to dissasemble my tablet!! (not yet at least.)
I am still too excited to measure the finer details such as heigt of pen reading, width of the screen and all that stuff.

I moved my screen around, set my tablet to forced proportions and in a couple minutes I was sketching some stuff!!! still jitters will be a problem.
I had an acrilic cover for flat TVs that I had laying around, 2 or 3 mm thick for a 32 inch tv I put it over my contraption, and it still read preetty good.  Felt tips are mandatory to prevent scratches on the surface.

mandatory pic
[attachment=1]
pic breakdown
-at the bottom my intuos4 XL, still intact
-on top of the tablet, a white plastic bag covering it
-on top of the bag is the dissassembled screen, still working after all of the beating
-finally on top of everything is a clear acrylic cover for flat tvs, the circular droplets are transparent rubber cushions to fit over your tv without damaging it.

I took some pictures from the monitor stripping but since it is something already tested and proved before, I felt that posting them added nothing of interest to the forum.

So, about the jitters....
The thing that got most of my attention with the anntiq build is that they grounded the monitor and the tablet together, and it virtually eliminated the jittering. so I am thiking about opening my tablet only with that purpose-

I´ll take some measurements and will post more details later!!!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 24, 2012, 07:19:08 AM
still working around posting good resolution pics that don´t pass the uploading limit.
 
So same pic, better resolution. [attachment=1]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: erikh on December 27, 2012, 09:46:34 PM
Regarding the USB screens, I was just about to buy an AOC usb display to use with my Intuos 3 wide build. I changed my mind in the store, as I turbo-googled reviews saying the bandwidth of the usb data connection gave a slow response time. Have you used one? It seems like a good idea in theory, but just as long as it doesn't feel slow.

Oh, and I'm intrigued to see how the jittering turns out.. update! 


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 28, 2012, 05:56:27 AM
So Cleaned my desk in order to reduce interference from other devices, cables, etc.

Two electronic engineers checked my build (Bro and best friend are electronic engineers, lucky me!), they even checked the grounding in my house, so far so good.
It boiled down to these two things:
-isolation
-grounding

I´ve been reluctant to crack open my tablet, since I still have faith that I can pull this build without voiding the warranty.

I made the paper stack test and the results are amazing:
Pen Reading height till it starts losing signal -measured from the surface of the plastic cover of the tablet- : 1.5 cms
LCD plus a 3 mm thick acrilic - for protection : 1 cm

So I still have 0.5 cms to hover over the tabet which is quite a decent heigth!!

I had a 2 mm acrilc cover, but because of the wide surface it had to cover, it bended at the middle, pressing over the lcd surface.
A 3mm thick acrilic works way better protecting the screen. only drawback is that it´s difficult to clean and scratches will come at some point.
I will have to replace it with a 3 mm glass.
And parallax has´t even bothered me. Being used to sketch on a bamboo tablet, sketching on screen is a big plus, even if it is still a bit offset.

As I said before, The tabletmod dissasemble video shows that the grounding from the screen ends up at the metal base of it.
The Anntiq build, also kept the metal base for casing the lcd control board, so I am guessing the groundig was also left intact there, which could be one of the reasons why that build had little to no jitter on the first place.

So by recomendation of my advisors, I set the lcd control board back on the base. Mostly only the metallic part, and some plastic cover so the   power/adjustments buttons could be fixed to its original casing.

I also covered the LCD control board with a plastic bag, and after that, I put a layer of aluminum foil over it.
The circuit in the border of the LCD display also received the same treatment with scothc tape and aluminum foil (one layer).
-In the forum topic about jitter I read that for some people a double aluminum layer didn´t make a big difference-

I didnt felt the need to isolate the flat flexible cable that powers the led strip, but if that worked for anyone, please note me and that will be my next step.

Also I read that the aluminum foil isolation also has to be grounded... Still lots of things to do.

So results:
-jitter visibly reduced 50%, more evident on the left and right borders of the screen, and more evident on vertical lines than on horizontal lines. still annoying, but it´s an impovement.
-still random clicks on the left and upper border and the right border of the screen (where the led strip is). No random clicks on the middle.
-eliminated pen dropouts from the left border (previously a continuos trace got broken into little segments)

Took some pics but will post them separatedly along with a ruler traced grid so you can check the progress.

So isolating the FFC of the led strip, and grounding the isolating foil are my next steps.
Advice is welcomed.

Also... Is there a part of the forum dedicated to post the optimal tablet adjustments for a given type of screen? I don´t really want to fiddle around pixel by pixel till my tablet active area fits my screen ratio. Is there a way to transpolate the Simtiq measurements to the wacom tablet drivers? Thanks!
Later!
Cabroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 28, 2012, 06:15:35 AM
Regarding the USB screens, I was just about to buy an AOC usb display to use with my Intuos 3 wide build. I changed my mind in the store, as I turbo-googled reviews saying the bandwidth of the usb data connection gave a slow response time. Have you used one? It seems like a good idea in theory, but just as long as it doesn't feel slow.

Oh, and I'm intrigued to see how the jittering turns out.. update! 

Sounded like a great idea on paper. Good thing you did a more thorough research than me. It´s expected that the amount of data squeezed through a usb cable has to come with some delay on the image response. Even with the faster usb ports...
Might be interesting to make a side by side test with one of those screens in extended desktop mode moving an open window from one screen to the other back and forth to measure the degree of delay and if it is visually acceptable or not.

If you come to think of it for a moment, almost every cintiq and DIY cintiq has a minimum amount of delay from the moment  you trace something until the line appears on screen. So if you were aiming for portability, it could be worth giving that build  a shot. You would be breaking into new ground with your build. 

By the way, Still fighting with jitter. But I will succeed!!
Cabroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Dikymon on December 28, 2012, 10:09:35 AM
Another thing regarding USB screens is that they won't be as flexible in regards to supporting Hz tuning.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Aerendraca on December 28, 2012, 02:40:10 PM
For what it's worth having a slow response time on a DIY Cintiq should not make the slightest bit of difference unless you intend to play games or watch movies on it too. For drawing purposes you would not notice a response time of for example 30ms (that's 30 one thousandths of a second for a pixel to change state) after all very little changes on the screen when you draw/paint. I'm not sure this factor alone should put you off using one of these screens in a DIY Cintiq build. Plus the Samsung syncmaster LD190 has a refresh rate of 5ms through USB so it can't be that limiting through USB.

Also, I would imagine these screens probably work in the same way as a regular monitor but with the graphics card/processor inside the panel as apposed to being in the computer, which implies additional circuitry to consider.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: sanzoghenzo on December 28, 2012, 07:15:31 PM
Hi there,
I'm curious about this USB display thing...
I took a ride on displaylink website to better understand how it works.
basically it's a combination of a video encoder to be installed on the pc and an hardware decoder that sits on the device. They say the codec is optimized to balance CPU availability and USB bandwidth and mantain the best quality possible.
They claim you can watch video and do some casual gamings. of course USB3 and a good CPU/GPU could be useful (WEI score = 4.5 on graphics and overall).

Yiynova already manufactures some displaylink digitizers http://www.yiynova.com/En/products.php?Clsid=13&fid=1
Amazon reviews say that could be a good alternative to cintq, at least on windows world (support for osx is not great).
and they claim 8ms response time...
So it's definitely possible!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: erikh on December 28, 2012, 09:37:37 PM
Hmm. Interesting. Very off topic, but still.
I've found the AOC E2251FWu for around 100€, might be worth a gamble. I'm on a quite tight budget though so I'm a bit hesitant to get a "untried" display. I guess someone has to bite the bullet.. :)
But the pro's are there; it's super thin, just one usb connection, no physical controllers (seems like all settings are done thru displaylink software). 
If anyone has stumbled upon internal photos of it I'd be happy.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: sanzoghenzo on December 29, 2012, 01:39:49 AM
Hmm. Interesting. Very off topic, but still.
Uoops, I realize only now that 30ms is an example and not the actual response time of AOC display (which is 5m), so my offtopic thoughts are pretty useless (sorry about that).
Anyway, from what I read on amazon reviews of that AOC model, I have to correct you about the usb ports: to have the right amount of power (someone states 20W) you have to plug 2 usb ports (especially on a laptop). Plus, you'll need a port for the digitizer. In my case (MacBook pro) I couldn't handle this setup, only a powered usb hub could save me :)
Also, someone states that colors are not so good for (photo) editing, and it's better suited for standard office use.
Still, I'm very interested in seeing hou it goes.
Good luck!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: bernard on December 29, 2012, 05:42:51 AM
Jitter:  have you played with the video frequencies, and all that stuff?


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 29, 2012, 06:46:21 AM
Jitter:  have you played with the video frequencies, and all that stuff?


I work on windows 7, on a sony laptop. with an Nvidia GE force video card, with an AOC as secondary monitor for the Cabroontiq.
so where do I look for video frequencies?
on windows 7 conrtrol panel?
on the Nvidia drivers?
on the AOC setup/drivers?
Please shed some light on that topic.

Does the laptop monitor an the secondary monitor can handle differnt freuqencies at once? or both frequencies are affected?
Do I have to turn off my laptop monitor so the video frequency is used only  on the secondary monitor?

Tomorrow I´ll try grounding the back circuit attached to the monitor, the LED strip and the aluminum foil shield together with the metal base of the monitor. Hope that improves the jitter.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: bernard on December 29, 2012, 07:58:52 AM
entech powerstrip


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 30, 2012, 01:12:18 AM
Ok, downloaded and installed powerstrip, but haven´t figured it out on how to change the screen refresh rate.
Is there a simple tutorial about powerstrip and how to use it? i don´t want to mess up my video drivers by clicking something that I wasn´t supposed to.

Good news.
I just found out something very interesting.
My tablet has an excellent pen reading heigt (1.5 cms) and that my LCD+acrilyc sandwich width is 0.9-1 cms, leaving me roughly 0.5 cms to hover over.
I removed the acrilyc (3mm) and started doodling directly over the screen, and surprise!! Jitters reduced to 90% on the borders (5-6 pixels), with no random clicks, even close to the led strip. At the center it moves side to side in a swinging motion only 1 or 2 pixels. Yes, my jitter problem is mainly horizontal. No vertical jitter.
So it comes to me as a revelation that pen heigth increases interference-jitter. I should have read other posts about it before. 
Now it makes sense, why most modders open the tablet an cut a hole in order to place the lcd display as close as possible to the digitizer tablet.
 
From previous posts, I know that  the intuos4 front cover is 3mm thick abs plastic, with aditional 4 mm ridges, as stated on the anntiq build and shown on the  Intuos 4 L portable Build pics.             

So if maths are not lying , if I open the tablet and place the screen directly on the digitizer board, I would be reducing 7 mm to my current heigt of the sensor pen reading. Thus reducing jitter (hopefully) close to nothing.

I dont want to crack open my tablet because I don´t wnat to damage the thin FFC connecting the front and the back part.
but if I want to cover my screen with a decent 2-3 mm cristal, I guess there is no other choice.

I´feel I´m so close !!!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on December 30, 2012, 05:01:26 AM
just be carefull if you open the tablet. It is the ffc connection between the tablet and the express keys that is vulnerable. Best to leave the tablet upside down when you open it. Just pull off the bottom plate. Then you will have the possibility to disconnect the fcc cable BEFORE you take out the PCB.
I have on the xl board a distance of 18mm without problems and got another 5 mm which is not without flaws but perfect to move the cursor. In my build i have a screen which is 10.5 mm thick on top of that is a glass plate of 3mm and in between is another 1mm space. So everything adds up to 14.5 mm. And still i can use the pen without any jitter, and i can lift the pen about 6mm above the glass surface and it is still reacting with the tablet.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 06:38:56 AM
just be carefull if you open the tablet. It is the ffc connection between the tablet and the express keys that is vulnerable. Best to leave the tablet upside down when you open it. Just pull off the bottom plate. Then you will have the possibility to disconnect the fcc cable BEFORE you take out the PCB.


Best advice ever. Made everything easier. Thanks!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 06:46:22 AM
[attachment=1] This is my measurements berfore I opened my tablet. My LCD + an acrylic, roughly 1 cm. (yes, I need another metric tape).
[attachment=2] This is my jitter with the LCD over the tablet, without the acrilyc cover. As you can see, the jjitter, the pen dropouts and random clicks are more evident on the edges. Less at the middle section. My jitter  is mainly horizontal. no vertical jitter. That´s why I traced only vertical lines. There is no deformation on horizontal lines.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 07:50:33 AM
Here is another pic showing the jitter on the lcd over the tablet, without the acrilyc cover. It visibly reduces the jitter and the pen dropouts. Almost no random clicks. At the center only 1 or 2 pixel jitter but very manageable.
[attachment=1]

So finally had the balls to open my tablet (thanks to lazy mosquito for the tip of turning it face down).
released the FCC and compared it to the one I bought. Perfect pitch match!!! Only drawback is that i had to cut to the exact number of threads in order for it to work.

[attachment=2]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 07:52:13 AM

Tried to cut it with a knife, not good. At the moment I didn´t had an exacto knife, and maybe it was better that way.
I sticked them together with scotch tape an with the aid of some magnifying glasses and good lighting, I proceeded to cut them with some sort of straight nail clippers, not curved ones. These ones are like pliers. The tip is shown in the  photo. I had  to strip down the blue plastic backing, because the nail clippers couldn´t cut through them.

[attachment=1][attachment=2]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 07:54:16 AM
On to the next issue, my cable terminals are on the same side, and the intuos 4 terminals are on different sides. (straight and inverse for future reference)
First I tried to just fold the last part of the cable, so the added thickness acted as the plastic backing, so the lock coudl "bite" everything to make contact on the terminals. Partial success. Tablet was detected as an input device, I was able to use the pen, but the pressure didn´t worked and the oled displays of the tablet didn´t lighted up.
I rewired it again with the original cable and it worked as normal. After being relieved that My tablet still worked, I got back to bussiness.
Trial and error, trial and error, until I saw on the magnifying glasses that my terminals were damaged from so much manipulation.
I decided to cut them an try to make new terminals. Since I was cutting them anyway, I decided to take my chances at making one of the terminals straight and the other one inverse.
I took my dremel tool with a sanding cilinder and started working very smoothly over the edges just to uncover the metallic strip. For the initial stripping it was good, but too powerful and at some point, it cutted the metal strip. So had to cut that portion and start over.
This time slower. After I got to some point, I started sanding it manually. I fixed the sandpaper on my table and pressed the FCC cable with my index finger, sanding it in the direction of the metal strips, moving away from the sandpapaer. Same procedure on the other side, double checked for the inverse orientation.

After I was finished, I cutted the blue plastic backings to fit the new 18 pin widht, and inserted them along with the fcc cables and
TOUCHDOWN!!!! The oleds lighted up like fireworks!! (They just started working, but I was so excited about it)   

[attachment=1]

Finally I was able to set my monitor directly over the digitizer for some tests.
so my desk now looks like this
[attachment=2]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 08:09:23 AM

I thought that reducing the distance between the pen an the tablet would eliminate the jitter.
Not everything went as expected.
I found that the jitter is Basically the same I had before opening my tablet with only the LCD display on top of it.  ???
[attachment=1]
So my next step is to fiddle around with video frequencies.
I already installed powerstrip, but I don´t know how to use it. I dont want to screw something up. If there´s already a part of the forum where it´s tutored on how to use it, could you direct me to it?

Good day, good progress. CAbroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on December 31, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
Hey Cabroon:
You possible missed this one: but it would have made your job a lot easier; this fcc fits and is 20 cm long.
http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552 (http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552)


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 04:40:10 PM
Hey Cabroon:
You possible missed this one: but it would have made your job a lot easier; this fcc fits and is 20 cm long.
http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552 (http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552)

Thanks!! ordering from my country is a big problem. Taxes are really high for any imports, so I wanted to try my luck modifying the cable before placing an order, and thank god it worked. My ffc is 15 cms log, so its more than enough to work with.


Title: Help me with powerstrip!!
Post by: cabroon on December 31, 2012, 04:53:24 PM
Ok, I knew I should have waited.
I started messing with the dials and options of powerstrip. First it recognized my secondary screen as aoc 2243fw. Now it just says "generic pnp monitor". Serial number and resolution (1920 x 1080 at 60 hz) is shown as the same. I fiddled with the frequency dials and only gave an option of 59 or 60 hz, and it didn´t make a difference with jitters. I tried uninstalling it but it wont let me since it is always in use!! what should I do?, how do I restore defaults.

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Now my two screens are a mess, they open photoshop half in one screen and half in the other.
I read that lazy mosquito experienced no jitters with a mac and jitters on a pc maybe because of the overclocked video card.
How can I check that?

I read most of the forum posts and found some very insightful information hidden among them.
Please help me or point me in the right direction. The forum is big, and sometimes it is not that easy to find the right info you´re looking for
Thanks!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: bernard on December 31, 2012, 07:52:06 PM
yes forum is big, and it takes an enormous amount of time helping everybody and doing the searches myself. ;)

Yes, powerstrip is not always easy to deal with. I do not know what to do in your situation from the top of my head.  Find posts about powerstrip find the people that played with it a lot and send them a message or a follow up post.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on January 01, 2013, 05:25:34 AM
i understand you work in Windows: You could always start up in safe-mode (the mode you enter by pressing the "F8" button when you start up Windows.) This would give you the option to start up in "safe mode" In this mode you start up without drivers or anything. So you could disable or uninstall the program. I don't know powerstrip by heart, but i should expect there is an option which enables or disables the option to automatically startup the program at startup of the computer. If not go back to option one  8)


Title: Almost there!!!
Post by: cabroon on January 03, 2013, 05:39:54 AM
Update with jittering.

I plugged my screen and tablet to my old laptop, and surprise!!! no jitter!, only a bit on the right side, where the led strip is. It is a Dell inspiron 9500. But the hardware is so worn out, that it barely runs Photoshop cs2. So the oriign of the problem was the vaio or the graphic card or something, else, not the monitor nor the tablet. So I plugged everything back how it was and started playing with screen parameters and graphic card parameters.

My graphic card only let me change the refresh rate from 60 to 59 hz, so no difference with both options.
Tried my best to ground the ledstrip with the monitor card and the base of the monitor, but again, no difference.
And FINALLY I found the answer.
I changed the resolution of the screen, originally 1080p: 1920 x 1080 native resolution, to 1680 x 1050 and the jitters dissapeared 99%!!, only a slow 1 pixel variation to left and right, but close to nothing and not noticeable. I experimented with other resolutions and this one (only one below my monitor´s native resolution) worked wonders. 
BUT (there is always one but) that left me with a 3.5 cms wide vertical strip of unusable screen on the left side, where the led strip is located.
That part is as I said, virtually unusable. The pen is not detected correctly in there, lots of aeroclicks and super jitter. Once outside of that zone, the pen behaves smoothly.
Anyway, I won´t complain, since my first tests showed that I will work 99% of the time in the central area. and not on the borders, besides, I still have 44 cms of screen width to work with. which is more than enough.

8 mm total added thickness of my lcd + a 2 mm thick cristal. 2mm is more than enough, very resistant, and not as easy to scratch as acrylic.
The pen reading height is perfect for me. All of this is placed above the closed tablet.
I shouldn´t have opened my tablet in the first place. These gadgets have a long life, and if my screen ever fails, I can always replace it. That´s why I wanted to keep my tablet as unaltered as possible.

Still some issues. I need to add some sort of heatsink, since the led strip heats up a lot. I read that heat reduces the leds life. I think I´ll use the same metallic backplate That was covering the screen at the beginning.
Also want to keep the frontal black frame of the AOC monitor but I will need a bigger frame around it to support the whole thing. I´m thinking about a wooden frame painted in matte black to match the tablet.
I Want to put it over the tablet surface with a non permanenet adhesive method, maybe a double side adhesive tape or some self stickin high resistant velcro strips, so if I ever need to open the tablet to fix something in the screen, it won´t be so difficult.

So yes, I´m almost finished, wrapping up the final details. I dont´think I´ll tinkle more with the insides of my tablet. Despite of the 3.5 cms zone, I´m very satisfied with the results so far.

Will keep posting my progress and some pics later.
Cabroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on January 03, 2013, 12:28:43 PM
How is the drawing on the tablet? The quality of the lines?
In my case i saw a huge difference in line quality.
In the first case: connected to my laptop: totally no jitter and exceptionally smooth lines
second case: connected to my desktop pc: almost no jitter (at some places 1 pixel) but the line quality is horrible compared with the laptop. Its not smooth anymore.

Your build strengthens my belief that the jitter very often is caused by external elements as graphic card, grounding of the net, etc... Your jitter also got a lot better the moment you used your laptop.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: profaldo on January 03, 2013, 12:38:10 PM
Could it be the difference in the power that is drawn by the laptop compared to the desktop?

I know desktops come with huge power blocks, where as the laptop is much more leaner.

It could either be the power supply or the design.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on January 04, 2013, 05:12:08 AM
How is the drawing on the tablet? The quality of the lines?
In my case i saw a huge difference in line quality.
In the first case: connected to my laptop: totally no jitter and exceptionally smooth lines
second case: connected to my desktop pc: almost no jitter (at some places 1 pixel) but the line quality is horrible compared with the laptop. Its not smooth anymore.

Your build strengthens my belief that the jitter very often is caused by external elements as graphic card, grounding of the net, etc... Your jitter also got a lot better the moment you used your laptop.

Both of the computers I used are laptops. The older one was the one with no jitters.
The newer one, a core I5, with Nvidia geforce graphhic card is the one suffering jitters. Downgrading resolution worked for me.
Still a little 1 pixel jitter. I have started working on it lately and realized that line quality depends a lot on the zoom % you are working with. If you work around 100% your jitter will be more evident and your line quality worst. If you work at a bigger zoom % 200 and above, and you make your tracing in a fluent and rapid way, your jitter dissapears and your line quality improves a lot. that worked for me at least.

Right now working on heat diffusor with the metal brackets that the monitor came with, I am going to use the monior plastic case at least the front part of it to hold everyuthinng in place.
I´m thinking about inverting the monitor orientation in order to put the unusable zone on the side I use less. but that would bring soem other problems I have yet to figure.

cabroon out.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: lazy_mosquito on January 04, 2013, 05:41:22 AM
With the one with the small jitter i have the same experience as you have, with the zooming etc.
With the laptop that has no jitter i can zoom what i want, or draw fast or slow it doesn't matter. The lines are all very smooth.
The laptop in my case has a build in gpu (core i7 with intel hd 4000) The desktop which has jitters has a rather old graphic card (nvidia 8800 gt 640 mb).
I bought yesterday a hd 7950 and will try if this one gives less jitter.


Title: wrapping things up
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 06:26:24 AM
So in the final stages of my build. Finally I got my face plate.
Look from the front and from the back. I asked for some vent holes on the Right part so I could fit some kind of heatsink on the led side. The left side was left thin, so I would cover as little as possible from the oled screens and the touch screen.
I had to grind down the upper part to fit the circuit connections. I also grind down partially the part where I would fit the heatsink.
[attachment=1][attachment=2]

I had to work with the edges of the inner fitting of the frame, since I broke one glass while trying to fit it by force and I had to wait the whole weekend to order another one on monday. 2mm thick glass works perfectly for me. Very resistant and I can lean my whole arm on it without breaking it.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 06:36:06 AM
[attachment=2][attachment=1]

Some more details on how I mounted my monitor on my frame, Since it was custom built, I just started by putting the glass, the monitor and added a double tin foil cover on the top circuitry in a final attemp to eliminate jitter. No difference for me on that department.

After that I added the heat sink with a couple of folded aluminum sheets to fit into the space I had already prepared for them. By the time I am writing these my build is finished, so I can say that the heatsink and ventholes make a wonderful job on reducing the heat on the right side on the monitor.
The red plastic thingy on the edges is double sided tape. Tip: dont use as much as I did. Little strips will get the job done. And it will be a nightmare if you want to remove the cover if your fitting ends up wrong. Now I know.


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 06:36:45 AM
[attachment=1]


Title: wrapping things up
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 06:48:29 AM
So I had this LED tv Base lying around, unused since I mounted my Tv on the wall.
The base provided a big steady mount with just enough weight to support it firmly. I was glad I kept the inner hinge of the monitor base around, so I screwed it to a couple of wood boards which in turn I screwed to the base. I didn´t wanted to put screws on the back of my tablet , so I used adhesive backed industrial strenght velcro strips, in case I would want to remove it later. Again, great choice, since the grip is very steady and firm. If I ever get bored with the position, I can change it later on.

The circuitry and buttons of the monitor were kept in its original base, since that provided the best support for the cable connections. ALso it was attached to the back of the intuos with adhesive velcro. I gave it a long thought process here, but decided it was the best choice. Even if I have to lift the whole contraption to activate the touch sensitive buttons on the bottom part of the monitor base. [attachment=1][attachment=2]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 07:01:39 AM
[attachment=1][attachment=2]
Some more details on how the mounting and the final cosmetic look of the tablet looks.
I fixed the angle to a 50 degree more or less, since a more flat angleforces my back and my neck forward, and messes up the colors because of the viewing angle of the monitor. Meanwhile a more vertical angle forces my arm and shoulder to float without supporting it on the tablet, so long periods of work are very tiring.
I covered the aluminum foil insulation on top of the frame with electrical black tape. Since the tablet and the frame are black, It blended nicely.


Title: and now for the final view!!!
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 07:56:22 AM
So this is the final view of the monitor.
Things to notice: the touch ring is left completely free, The led indicators on the side of the ring are partially covered, but the on screen display eliminates the need for them. The oled button displays are also unobstructed.

-I´m not working at the native monitor resolution, since it produced so many jitters. Downsizing it helped with it, but whenever I rotate an image, it gets warped strangely.
-also hooking up an older laptop proved to significantly reduce jitter.
-There is still a lot of jitter on the right side of the screen where the led strip is, in a screen strip of about 3 cms. On the top of the screen accessing the menus and mostly the top left part is impossible, since it has some jitters, but mostly aeroclicks and randomclicks that mess up my selections. That is why I still keep my mouse close at hand for some selections.

-After all this, I am still very happy with my homemade cintiq. It has made sketching super fast and inking waaay better. More natural in every way. Once you draw on a screen you don´t want to get back to drawing on a tablet. The whole process and the transition was worth it.
-Strongly recommended to anyone that craved for a cintiq but is short on budget. Take the leap, go for it.
-Thank you guys for all the input and support provided during this build. You rock!!

[attachment=1][attachment=3][attachment=2]


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Aerendraca on January 24, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
Very nicely done, looks like it's time to put this thread in the successful builds area!


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: cabroon on January 24, 2013, 07:19:38 PM
Very nicely done, looks like it's time to put this thread in the successful builds area!

How do I move it? or the forum moderator moves it?


Title: Re: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!
Post by: Aerendraca on January 24, 2013, 08:40:52 PM
Oh Bernard, Please can you move 'The Cabroontiq' to the successful builds.  ;)