Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Heyaaaalpppp => Topic started by: Agerkvist on February 26, 2013, 09:28:33 AM



Title: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on February 26, 2013, 09:28:33 AM
I have a dream. A dream where I combine http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?artnr=13022 with http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/8ms-19,977-10.html to make my very own tablet/monitor abomination which henceforth shall be known as Frankentiq.

Is this type of stuff even possible with a non-wacom tablet? I don't see why not, but I might be overlooking something.

The tablet, while it might seem like junk, is actually pretty darn good. I've had it for 5+ years I think and it hasn't been used for the last 3 but last night I hooked it up and it actually outperformed my Wacom Bamboo Pen and Touch in many ways.

The monitor...well...it's my old monitor, but since I bought a laptop my old(OOOOLLLLLDDD) desktop isn't being used and neither is the monitor so I might aswell give this a go, before I shell out 900 $ to get a Yiynova or Bosto.

If anyone has any advice regarding the above components, please, please let me know. I've assembled a few desktops and I can install new GF cards etc., but I'm not very hardware or electronics savvy. I really don't know what the hell I'm doing and I keep telling myself it won't be easy - and at the same time there's a part of my saying "pffthhh it can't be THAT hard. You just strip the monitor, slam the stripped tablet underneath and your're good to go.".

I'll know better soon enough. I'm exited - especially because I'm still optimistic and believe that there's actually a chance this might turn out successfully :)

I'll be reading up on as much as I can on this and other sites, and then I'll return with any questions I still have.

Great to be here! :)

Kristian.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on February 26, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
Ok, so I'll just start adding questions here:

1) The monitor is a 19 inch. The tablet - if my calculations are correct - is 14 inches. This mean that there will be parts of the screen unreachable via the tablet - can you somehow calibrate the screen to only run in 14 inches, in the middle of the screen? I would have no issue with blocking out parts of the screen, but that will be no use, if the screen is still using the full area.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: bernard on February 28, 2013, 06:24:08 AM
You tried my simtiq planner? You can compute how many pixels will be out of the inactive area. Beware of aspect ratios!

it is possible to restrict the video. Not always easy (but it can be). It depends on the OS, the graphics card driver, whether we are talking dvi or vga, and if more complex, your resistance to multi reboots and other niceties of Windows drivers installation and deinstallation. This exercice has a good side: playing with video frequencies can be a good weapon against jitterbugs.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on February 28, 2013, 03:40:39 PM
Ah, a reply!  ;D

No, I haven't tried the simtiq planner - but now that I know of it's existence I certainly will. I've done some calculations myself tho, and I think the 19' monitor is entirely too big - I'd prefer not having to restricting the video display. Mainly because then I have one less thing to worry about.

Apart from that I got a bit deterred when I tested the responsiveness of my tablet through a stack of paper - it only worked through a thickness of around 5-6 mm. I'm pretty sure that the panel from the syncmaster will be thichker than that - and without knowing for sure, I'm thinking it will be hard to find a decently priced panel only 5 mm thich?

This lead me to thinking - would it be possible to strip and convert the panel from an old laptop? These panels surely must be thinner?

I came across this link in my seach: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/06/how-to-turn-a-spare-lcd-panel-into-a-working-monitor-for-33/


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: bernard on February 28, 2013, 07:24:33 PM
5 to 6 mm is the typical thickness of lcd panels since a long time ago. higher end (older) monitors tend to be exotic and are very thick.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on February 28, 2013, 07:32:10 PM
Hi Agerkvist,

When you tested the response through the paper was the paper stacked upon the circuit or on top of the tablets plastic top? you will get a few vital mm if you measure from the circuit.

Another point to note here is that you should also allow for some kind of cover (glass/perspex/plexiglass) to protect whatever screen you pick; This should probably be at least 2mm in itself depending on material used.

Laptop screens are a popular choice on this forum due to their low profile and relative cheapness, and many builders have used these with varied levels of success when it comes to cursor jitter.

It looks as though on the site you referenced that the person that turned the laptop screen into a monitor has done so in way which is also widely done on this forum. There is a company which a lot of people seem to favor on this site called NJYTouch who retail through ebay.

3 parts are needed to convert a laptop screen; An LVDS controller, an inveter/LED driver (depends on if you have ccfl backlighting or LED), and a power supply. NJYTouch can provide all of these bits and relatively cheaply too; It is important to contact NJYTouch by email to advise them of the panel you will be hooking the circuit up to so that they can ensure that the circuit has the correct driver installed.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 01, 2013, 09:47:31 AM
5 to 6 mm is the typical thickness of lcd panels since a long time ago. higher end (older) monitors tend to be exotic and are very thick.

Ah ok, well that's good news - even though I've pretty much decided that my current tablet and monitor aren't a good match for each other. Ideally I'd need a 15 inch widescreen monitor - I think. I'll try and find a better fitting screen. Actually I might even go for an entirely other tablet aswell, if I can find a decently priced one that is a better fit. I don't really care about brand, but I'm thinking wacom tablets might be more fitting since they have more software for calibrating etc. and also a larger community.

@Aerendraca I just put a stack of paper on top of the tablet, so I should be able to get a few more mm when it get's disassembled.

I'll definately check out NJYTouch. I was looking at older laptops last night and some of them really seem to have quite thin screens which I think would be excellent. The downside to this is that I'll have to convert it myself, and honestly I'm no tinkerer - but hey, I might just end up one! And it does look manageable from the descriptions.

Most people seem to use Wacom tablets - especially the Intuos line - is this because of the stuff mentioned above, or just because of Wacoms reputation with tablets?

Thanks a bunch for the replies, I REALLY appreciate it.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 04, 2013, 09:51:31 PM
Fffnnnnngagghhhhh......

So I got this REALLY cheap 15' monitor today, took it home, removed the stand and screws, started gently prying of the casing - then I stopped and decided to actually check if it worked before I did anything else.

And alas, the monitor is blank and the green power light just blinks. The monitor sort of gives off a teeny tiny 'turn on' sound when the light blinks (this sound I've discovered seems to be coming from the build in speakers). Did I actually manage to break something already? Is this something that can be fixed?

But then - I leave the monitor on my table, power cord unplugged etc. then I decide to give it another go, so I plug it in the wall socket and it turns on giving me the standard "Check video cable" - Great! The monitor isn't entirely dead.

Then I plugged in the vga cable to my Laptop, and the screen goes blank, light starts to blink.

I unplug and try it again - still blank and blinking. WTH?


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 05, 2013, 08:41:20 AM
I have a few questions to help diagnose:

Does the screen have a power supply inside it or has it got an external power brick? can you post some pictures of the circuits?

LED of cold cathode fluorescent lamps (CCFLs) as the backlight?

When the screen was ON and showing the 'check cable' message was the whole screen illuminated evenly? Was there an area which was slightly darker or perhaps slightly more pink in colour?

All of the cables are securely in place? None have slipped out while you were taking things apart?

What's the make and model?

erm........ that's it for now, might have some more questions later depending on answers.




Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 05, 2013, 08:47:35 AM
Also, it might be better to have posted this as a new question so that anyone else in a similar position could find the information quickly.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 05, 2013, 10:47:38 AM
Q1)Does the screen have a power supply inside it or has it got an external power brick? can you post some pictures of the circuits?

A1) No external power brick. I can post pictures later if needed(at work right now) - but the casing is still on, so I'd have to take it apart.

Q2) LED of cold cathode fluorescent lamps (CCFLs) as the backlight?

A2) I honestly don't know - it's this monitor: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=dk&dlc=da&lc=en&product=324205

Q3) When the screen was ON and showing the 'check cable' message was the whole screen illuminated evenly? Was there an area which was slightly darker or perhaps slightly more pink in colour?

A3) Hmm it's difficult to say with certainty, since it was just a white box with black text floating around on the screen - but I didn't notice any differences. There certainly wasn't any pinkish colour to be found.

Q4) All of the cables are securely in place? None have slipped out while you were taking things apart?

A4) As far as I can tell, yes, everything is in place - I can't tell if they've loosened on the inside before I take it apart of course.

Q5) What's the make and model?

A5) http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=dk&dlc=da&lc=en&product=324205

Also, it might be better to have posted this as a new question so that anyone else in a similar position could find the information quickly.

You're probably right - I just didn't want to flood the board with too many threads, but I can see why it might be beneficial to others :)

Thanks ALOT.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 05, 2013, 11:58:06 AM
Ok, it looks like this monitor uses CCFL backlighting which is expected for a 15" screen but I don't think that the backlighting is your problem here.

A quick search on the net appears to confirm my initial suspicions that this is a power issue with quite a few people reporting the same thing with this panel, and I would expect that when you take the screen apart (if you decide to do so) you will see at least one bad filter capacitor on the power board.
Bad filter capacitors tend to have bulged tops and/or sometimes have what looks like a kind of goo coming out the bottom of them. If you compare the capacitors accross the board it should be obvious what i mean (assuming not all of them have gone bad :) )

This is a fairly simple and cheap fix if you have access to a soldering iron.

see: http://forum.eserviceinfo.com/viewtopic.php?t=20281 for others with the same problem.

Note: A couple of people claim that the problem may be a diode (circuit around it will be heat tarnished, possible lack of solder or cracked solder, component itself may show signs of overheating). Once again though this is a simple and cheap fix if you have access to a soldering iron.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 05, 2013, 12:08:49 PM
I stumbled upon some video of a guy replacing capacitors when troubleshooting myself, so that might be it yeah - I've no idea what they are or what they do, but I'll try and see if I can replace them :D

I do have access to a soldering iron, I just don't have any soldering skills - but I'll just pick those up on youtube :P

Looks like it has to be taken apart, and in the mean time I've got my eye on another just as reasonably priced 15', so let's see where it goes.

When I get home I'll open it and check the capacitors and post my findings here.

Thanks :)


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 05, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
A quick safety point to note: The big black capacitor on the power circuit (probably labelled '400V') can store alot of charge even after the screen has been removed from the mains, be sure to discharge it before you poke around too much as it may give you a nasty shock. See reply 5# on my build log: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=2198.0 for more info on how to do this.

Any questions just ask.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 05, 2013, 02:57:19 PM
Hmm ok, better watch that capacitor then  :o

But honestly, when it comes to discharging things and messing with circuitry I'm totally out of my element - so much in fact, that even though I read the description on how to do it, I still don't know how to.
Can't I just wear rubber gloves and try not to touch it? -_-

I also don't have a multimeter or anything of the sort, let alone experience with one - come to think of it, I don't even think I have any rubber gloves...

Grabbing another monitor that actually works seems like the safe option here. But I'll face similar obstacles later no matter what I do, I'm sure :P

I'm tearing it apart when I come home no matter what!


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 05, 2013, 08:20:56 PM
So, I haven't had time to look inside at the capacitors yet, but I did a bit of testing.

When the monitor is plugged into the laptop, without the laptops desktop being shared the monitor will be blank and the power light will just blink fast - about 2 blinks per sec or so.
However, if I change the settings to stretch the desktop over the two screens, the blinking will change to slower blinkts- 1,5-2 secs between each.

Does this tell "us" anything at all?


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 06, 2013, 01:09:50 PM
I managed to almost completely disassemble the monitor last night - took a few pictures:

This is right after removing the outer plastic casing:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0099.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0099.jpg)

The inner casing removed:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0103.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0103.jpg)

A closer look at the innards:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0101.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0101.jpg)

The only thing still keeping the prints to the panel are these:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0104.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/IMAG0104.jpg)

I should be able to disconnect those on the panel and buy some longer ones yeah? This is where things start getting complicated for me, and I really realize how much like a fish on land I am :P

Now, about the capacitors - I'll have to take a closer look when I get home, but a few of them did seem abit doomed. Whats with the white goo - glue to hold them in place or just another sign that they're broken?

I'll write more later - this erply window is acting like a breakdancing ferret - is this a know issue with IE? Makes typing REALLY hard


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 06, 2013, 05:01:53 PM
argh I've messed up all the links - I'll redo them later ><


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 06, 2013, 07:34:02 PM
The white stuff is most likely glue to hold the caps down; Usually the stuff you get leaking out the bottom of a capacitor looks a bit like rusty goop.

Can't tell you if it's definitely the capacitors since your links aren't currently working, but I'll check back later.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 06, 2013, 09:29:02 PM
Ok, the links in my post above should be fixed now.

I took a few more closeups of the capacitors - quite a few, like 5-6 or so, seem to be bulging out abit at the top. I've no experience with capacitors at all, so I can't tell how much is too much. I reckon it's quite hard to tell from the pictures aswell.

Capacitor Close-up Action Shots:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/2013-03-06%2021.14.37.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/2013-03-06%2021.14.37.jpg)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/2013-03-06%2021.14.28.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/2013-03-06%2021.14.28.jpg)

I also managed to crack the ZIF Ribbon code (YAY) so here's what I'm left with:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2763619/2013-03-06%2021.56.34.jpg)

Everything is taped in placed from here. I'll read up on all of this abit more before I proceed - I'm not too worried about breaking things, since this monitor is already broken, but I do wan't to learn as much as possible before my next try.

Post Scriptum: the reply window works fine in chrome.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Aerendraca on March 06, 2013, 10:14:11 PM
Confirmed! You have a whole batch of dead capacitors there.

Can't read any values apart from one, but in the first picture the two larger black capacitors (1000uF maybe?) and 4 of the purple ones (all 470uF ? not sure) but the smaller purple one looks ok.

Oh, I see another cap in the second picture..... hmmm..... let me illustrate instead:
[attachment=1]
Those which I have singled out with a yellow circle require replacing.

Was there also a large black capacitor labelled 400V? It's huge compared to these.

If that's all of them then whip them out, buy some more (ebay) and stick them in, should all work a treat after that. When buying new capacitors remember to match the 'uF' values and try to get replacements where the voltage is the same or slightly higher (don't go lower!! might not be a problem but not worth risking it).

Good luck!

Oh, also, these are polarised electrolytic capacitors which means that they prefer to be connected a specific way around. The direction of orientation is indicated on the capacitor as a white strip down the side (shows that the leg closest is negative), match the white strip to the shaded semi-circular portion on the circuit board.


Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 06, 2013, 10:26:30 PM
Yeah I could definately feel a difference, but I wasn't quite sure if this was enough. I feel, pretty, confident I can tell the good ones from the bad.

And yeah, there's a huge black one aswell - I didn't actually check that one, but I will tomorrow.

I'll try and find a local shop, online or regular, that has them in stock, just for the heck of it. But I'll probably grab another cheap monitor aswell, just to make sure I have one that definately works.

Thanks again Aerendraca, I'll post more soon! :)



Title: Re: Trust Wireless Tablet 1200 vs. Samsung Syncmaster 913N - The Frankentiq
Post by: Agerkvist on March 23, 2013, 02:16:01 PM
Right, it's time for an update.

I decided to get a new screen instead of replacing the capacitors on the old one - this one was also almost free, so it was the sensible thing to do. Also, this one has a external power supply, so that's a bonus :)

The new screen is a Samsung Syncmaster 570p and I've already stripped it all the way down and it still works - excellent!

My next step was to strip down the tablet, but when testing before taking it apart it started acting up - basically the cursor jumps all over the place. I know this is driver related, since I've managed to solve to problem earlier, but I forgot what I did exactly. It involved downloading some old drivers, but I forgot which exactly.

So, now I have my eyes on an Wacom  GD-0912-U tablet that's for sale pretty cheap and pretty close to where I live - it's Wacom, it's Intuos but it's also very old and I'm just wondering if it's TOO old - driver wise etc.

Should I pick that one up? Does it even have USB? Hah better I'd better check that.

Bottom line, I'm super stoked that I managed to tear the monitor apart without breaking anything up and just as annoyed that my trusty tablet choose this time to act up - but still, better now than after the build was complete.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 25, 2013, 11:20:40 PM
Ok guys, here's where I start to really need your help.

The monitor is torn apart and I have my new Wacom GD-0912-U tablet working in Windows 7. I did a quick test and there's some jitter, but it wasn't excessive so I'm hoping this is fixable later.

However, before I get that far I need to do some cable extending to make everything fit.

Here's the screen in it's current state, with everything assembled:

http://db.tt/pImVEJNy

With my layman's eyes it seems that I'll have to extend the two flat orange cable strips(sorry, I've no idea what they're actually called. in the top part of the picture - this is pretty much as in the original bongofish DIY guide - but, there's an extra connector here it seems. The one on the right side. I guess I'll have to extend that one aswell? Note: The monitor has speakers built into the stand, which is also where the power is coming from, so it could be connected to them? Which would be great, since I could then forget about them :P


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on March 26, 2013, 06:12:03 PM
hum. can you try to arrange things so the two orange flat cables remains like this? They appear more difficult to extend. That way you only need to extend the side one. It all depends on how you place your tablet. You might try to rotate the tablet if that can help.

FFC  or FPC are common way of calling theses. They are not FFCs but close enough.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 26, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
Hmm you know what, that actually seems doable - the tablet still isn't completely disassembled so I can't say for sure, but I'll find out asap.

What makes you say those are harder to extend than the side one? Because they're bigger = more signals? At this point they're both equally difficult, since I still don't know how to go about it, but I'm here to learn :)

And yeah haha I wanted to call them FFC's but figured that wasn't quite what they were :P


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 26, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
Ok, so I just did a quick test with a piece of thick paper shaped as the wacom board and it seems entirely doable the way you proposed Bernard: Leaving the two big FFCs and extending the side one.

Why is that one even there? I'm pretty sure I've seen a few builds without it, but that could be me not really looking close enough.

Next step then, I guess, is to extend that side FFC and then try and put it all together for a quick "hello bongo" test.

I'll see what guides etc. on extending the FFC I can find, but any help I can get here would be greatly appreciated. I'm in completely unknown territory here :)

Why are those top FFCs harder to extend by the way? Isn't that exactly what's done here: http://www.bongofish.co.uk/wacom/wacom_pt7.html

I do think just extending the side one can work fine tho. The only upside to extending them all I can see right now, is the option to laying all the boards out on the table when testing - when keeping the big FFCs the main board has to be located behind the wacom board, which makes things abit trickier to handle - I think.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on March 26, 2013, 09:04:30 PM
FFC/FPC: Those orange beast are actually not cables!!  They are Flexible PCB that are "shaped" into cables in one end. So they use FPC and "create" a cable that is shaped like a FFC and goes into a FFC connector.

Why? First there is two out of one, second I see something that appears to be attached on the side (tell me if I am wrong) -- that part I have no clue how to deal with it.

The problem with "extending" is finding parts to do so. It is quite easy to find FFC cables, but the connectors are more problematic.

How many pins (wires) and what is the pitch?  pitch is the distance between 2 pins. To compute, measure the total width and divide by the number of "pins". Typical pitch for these is 0.5mm.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on March 26, 2013, 09:06:01 PM
The reason the side connection is there is to feed the side circuit with data!!  Else it would be alone with no data to control the "rows".


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 26, 2013, 10:21:04 PM
Well here's a few closeups of the orange beasts :P

http://db.tt/vyd5n3dg

http://db.tt/b1MDatrU

As far as I can tell they look pretty much the same as the ones seen here: http://www.bongofish.co.uk/wacom/wacom_pt7.html - the thing you mean is attached, is that the L shaped strip? The earthing strip? They're not connected at the moment, but if they help with earthing, I'll definately end up doing that. But yeah, I see why it would basically double the amount of extending to be done.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to raise my awareness on this topic, since it's pretty much non existant at the moment.

The side one is 26 pins and the pitch is 0,5 mm (total width being 13 mm).

The orange beasts I'm pretty sure are 40 pins 0,5 pitch (20 mm wide),

Checking http://www.diy-beamer.com/ I can't find any 26 pin PCB connectors or FFC - but I from what I gather a "PCB Board + FFC cable 40PIN 0.5mm Pitch Set" is what I'd need to extend the orange beasts.

I love that name by the way - The Orange Beasts. Grrrwwrrrr. :)

I appreciate your help so very much bernard.



Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on March 27, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
ok -- the side with a round hole is for grounding.  It seems to have "pads" scattered in a circle around the hole underneath. This is used when there is a screw that comes in and presses the two boards in sandwich making up a good electrical contact.  Probably your board will work even if this is not connected, but I would suggest that you extend that connection. This helps liberate static discharge going on in the screens. And since this is targeted to be a "simtiq", you will be generating much more static with your hand than when the LCD is used as a normal screen that nobody touches.

If the parts at DIY-beamer is really available, then yes this sounds like the way to go. It is not always easy to find a solution to extend those. Can you have a setup where you do not extend the side one?   BTW, you'd want to pick the smallest FFC cable that does the job. Always make paper prototype to measure things (like you already did).  FFC cables can be found from many sites, so pick wisely if you are trying to save a buck or shipping  & handling time.  You can email DIY-beamer, they sometimes respond within a day and other times take *weeks* to respond. No joke.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 27, 2013, 06:59:54 PM
The round grounding holes aren't connected, and everything seems to work just fine - I'd prefer having them connected tho if they can reduce static/jitter.

I'll have to test a bit to see if I can make it work without extending the side one, so I won't know until later - perhaps tonight.

Meanwhile I'll try and look for an extension for the side FPC - that really would be excellent if I could find the right parts. I'm asking around and I'll try writing the guys at diy-beamer aswell. And yeah, I hear they can be pretty random at answering emails, but it's not like I have alot of better options at the moment so I'll just have to deal with that :)

If I can't find the parts and a build without extending the side FPC is possible, I guess that will be my course of action, but right now I'd prefer just extending that one side FPC.

If I end up having to rotate the wacom, how will I deal with that later? Running software that rotates it to fit the screen?

//Edit - I just checked really fast, and the only way I see it working, without extending the side FPC is rotating the wacom 180 degrees, and then I'll have to extend the two beasts. As stated above I have no clue what implications that will have - or rather, I have no clue how to deal with those implications. The downsides to rotating the wacom are pretty obvious :P

I had another builder tell me that he had used FFC connectors that are larger than the FFCs succesfully, so that might be worth a shot if I cant find the 26 pin board I need.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on March 29, 2013, 12:23:17 PM
a lot of drivers allow rotating the image 180 degrees.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on March 29, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
Ok - it depends on what kind of tablet you're using?

Did a test today with a piece of cardboard cut to match the size of the wacom - I think rotating it 180 degrees could make it work so that I won't have to extend the side FPC, but just the two orange beasts. I'm still waiting for the diy-beamer guys to get back to me. I still feel that if I could extend just one thing that would be easier, and then I also would'nt have to worry about extending the grounding hole flaps. Which I really have no idea on how to extend.

Like I said, a guy told me that it's possible to use fx. a 30 pin connector for attaching a 26 pin FPC, so this I feel is definately also worth looking into.

I dying to hear what diy-beamer says, cause I just can't wait to see how bad the jitter is once I get some shielding going and start playing with the frequencies. It was far from disastrous when I did my first quick test - with the screen picture side down - but I don't really think I can live with much more than a hint of jitter - then strokes simply won't be nice enough.

Patience is a virtue as this point :)



Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 05, 2013, 04:46:04 PM
Bleh, still waiting for the diy beamer guys to get back to me. Think ill write them again tomorrow.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 10, 2013, 07:01:40 PM
/sob

Disaster struck a few nights ago. The torn apart LCD panel fell down from its resting place atop the fridge and of course it's now broken.

Fret not, as I have already procured a new IBM monitor to replace it. Let's hope this works out better :)

2 monitors in the bin and I still don't have my Simtiq, but I shall not rest until I do!

Oh and the diy beamer guys still haven't replied :P



Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on April 11, 2013, 02:25:40 AM
Funeral March music playing...  :'(

Fridge top is the most unstable "stable-looking" place in the house.  Each time you open/close the door, everything moves at the top.  But still... to have a big object like a LCD to fall down, I can't imagine what could have caused this??  ???    Was it on top of a big magazine pile?  :P



Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 12, 2013, 06:46:26 PM
Well....we have a toddler at two and a half, so it's as much about safe as it is about stable :P

Not a magazine pile...a soddin' kitchen scale...on top of the fridge...perhaps the most wobbly thing in the ENTIRE house....no idea what the hell I was thinking -_-

Anyway, I'm about to tear this new IBM monitor apart tonight, so eyes ahead and let's not worry about the past.

/eye of the tiger plays as an 80's themed montage of me tearing apart an IBM monitor plays across the screen


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 12, 2013, 07:53:31 PM
WOOO!

The IBM monitor is in pieces now - and mymy I already feel like I know what I'm doing when taking one apart...maybe because it's my third already :P

Anyway, this really looks like a good panel for the project.

It was easy to strip down - there's zero excess material. Just the panel, the protective sheets, prints and the lighting (meh don't know what they're called. The old monitor had two, this one only has one.)

It also has an external power supply, which will hopefully mean less inteference.

And - and this is the big one - it seems I'll only have to extend one small FPC PFC PVC whatever to make thing fit.

I have uploaded a few pictures:

This is the one that needs an extension: http://db.tt/HjypLxK9 - I bet this one is hard to find an extension for?

This one would probably be useful to extend. I reckon it would make putting it all together in a meaning full fashion would prove much easier: http://db.tt/yUuBJ0Zg

Now here's a little bonus question:

When looking closer at the prints inside the monitor I noticed this: http://db.tt/jbyFBa8E

Looks like water or something got into it? It works right now, but could turn in to a problem later?

Hoping someone out there can help me find the stuff needed to do these extensions - you guys have helped me so much already and I really appreciate every single reply I get :)

Have a nice weekend all of you.



Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: abeyance on April 12, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
On the right, that looks like a burn from a short caused by the water. This thing still power on?


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 12, 2013, 08:57:39 PM
It powers on fine. No problems that I can see.

It's not the brightest screen ever, but it works just fine.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: abeyance on April 12, 2013, 09:35:58 PM
Sweet. Then I wouldn't worry about it. :)


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 12, 2013, 11:19:08 PM
I'll try not to then :P Hah no I reckon it'll be allright.

Any idea on how I'll go about extending that doozy in the first picture I posted? Or the second one for that matter?


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: abeyance on April 13, 2013, 12:37:13 AM
I do not, good sir. I was fortunate enough to not have to extend anything. Seems I got off rather easily. :P But I will do some forum digging and googling to see if I can be a bit more than useless until someone in the know can help.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 17, 2013, 06:25:18 PM
Anyone out there with even the slightest idea on how I proceed from here?

I feel kinda stuck right now. The monitor is torn apart, but there's really not much cable to work with so I need to do those extensions somehow.

The diy beamer guys arent replying, so I'm lost. Any help is appreciated :)


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Aerendraca on April 17, 2013, 08:32:54 PM
Ok, well the first picture of the FPC - What's the pitch of the contacts? If the pitch is bigger than 0.4mm then you could use some 3M 9703 anisotropic tape to join the FPC to a piece of straight FFC of the same pitch. This has been done by someone on the forum but I forget who now, try checking the most recent build logs - wait, found it, it's http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=2246.15. The tape is sticky both sides and has metal particles through it allowing conduction through the z-axis only, it's simple enough so long as your pitch is ok. You can get the tape 10cm of it for a few pounds on ebay.

The second cable - What does this cable join between? So long as it's not the LVDS cable you could always manually lengthen each wire with some soldering and some shrink tubing, only 25 wires, shouldn't take too long  :D .

And that water stain type blemish looks like an imperfection of the pcb lacquer caused when too much lacquer pools, it wont cause a problem with the working of the circuit.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on April 17, 2013, 11:37:45 PM
there are a few posts talking about extending the FFCs. Recently Chocochan and someone else used a special 3M tape. Which I think was a great thing.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on April 17, 2013, 11:41:46 PM
have you measured the number of pins and the pitch? (I am talking about the first connector which is flat). the pitch is typically 0.5mm total width divided by the number of pins.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 21, 2013, 02:41:47 PM
there are a few posts talking about extending the FFCs. Recently Chocochan and someone else used a special 3M tape. Which I think was a great thing.

Hmm yeah I think I vaguely remember coming across that, but it didn't strike me as being something that could be used in my case - I'll read up on that for sure.

And no, I haven't measured the pitch yet, had a busy weekend, so hopefully I'll have time this afternoon.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 21, 2013, 07:42:02 PM
So we have 20 pins and a width of 10 mm (well maybe 10,25 mm, but I guess this will count as 10 here) which makes it 0,5 pitch which seems par for the course.

I buy stuff from 3M at work sometimes so I think I'll try giving them a call asking about that tape. All though even if I get some tape, I'll still need some FFC to do the actual extension with - and this FFC would just get taped together with the FPC in one end and connected to the zif on the other?

I honestly don't know what a LVDS cable is or if this is the one so I've uploaded a shot of the entire panel backside:

http://db.tt/bv75bZgY


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: bernard on April 23, 2013, 02:20:23 AM
For some reason, I cannot access your image.

Ok, found the tape model: 3M9703   3M™ Electrically Conductive Adhesive Transfer Tape 9703  -- I am not sure if it is "certified" to work with 0.5mm but I believe it worked for whoever tried it here. You might have to do some precise alignment, but it seems this is workable with a bit of patience.

Yes, you still need to find an FFC cable, but this is a standard part. Figure out the length you need (think about how the cable needs to be folded). Use a piece of paper cut to the good size to try it out.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Aerendraca on April 23, 2013, 02:12:19 PM
3M 9703 tape is good down to 0.4mm pitch so you should be fine with 0.5mm (see chococans build log for more details).

And from your image it looks like that is the LVDS cable (the cable which joins the controller circuit to the TCON (Timing Control) circuit of the LCD. I notice that the cable is not comprised of twisted pairs or wires, that the overall size of the screen is on the smaller size, and that the wire has a ferrite choke on it; therefore perhaps the reason why there are no twisted pairs is because there is not as data being transmitted due to the reduced pixel count, and that the ferrite choke is enough to suppress and noise. This makes me think that you may get away with manually lengthening these wires by maybe 10cm tops, but you should try to keep each wire the same length. I believe it was Dragon who tried to do this on a larger screen and failed reporting that the screen showed a lot of noise (see Dragontiq - http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=2052.0).

Quick explanation of twisted pair differential signalling:
Each wire of each twisted pair has an equal and opposite signal send down the line, at the end of the line (at the TCON) the signals are subtracted and any signal which remains is considered to be noise and hence ignored by the TCON leaving only the desired signal to be processed. This system is a very good way of reducing external EMI noise from disrupting the LCD picture.

Like I said, since your screen doesn't have twisted pairs I would think you should be able to get away with a slight extension. Also that plug on this cable looks familiar, think I may have ID'd this for someone else in the last few months, I'm thinking it has a name like something from the sea trident/triton/kracken/...............could be wrong though. If I find the post I'll stick a link here, alternatively whoever it was that was looking for an ID might be able to provide the link or name themselves.


Title: Re: Wacom GD-0912-U vs. Samsng Syncmaster 570P
Post by: Agerkvist on April 23, 2013, 07:19:03 PM
Wow you guys are awesome. My hat goes off to you both.

You just get a file missing message or something when trying Bernard?  Try refreshing the page and it should work - I just had the same problem when I tried.

Aerendraca that was some reply - I had to read it several time, but now I get it. Well most of it or at least the jist of it.

I'll cut some cardboard sheets and do some testing too see if I absolutely have to extend them or not. My guess is I do, but I also think 10 cm would be enough.

I'll be back when I have moved from "I think" to "I know".