Bongofish

Screen Tablet malarky => Successful builds! => Topic started by: Bhrazz on December 12, 2006, 11:56:44 PM



Title: Success ** Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on December 12, 2006, 11:56:44 PM
Okay, since this ''cheap cintiq'' has become one of my priority in my personal project and i know is gonna see the day, I'll post here and you folks can help me clarify some question I have in mind.

Let me introduce my self properly!
I am a game artist and I've been looking to get the cintiq for a while now, but the price is just unreal. A guy from conceptart.org posted this usefull link and all my question is solved(at one point). YES! LCD'S are slim enough to be put over a wacom!

I am the kind of guy who make his own furniture, I draw(at least im re-learning:P), I paint, I modify almost everything I have at home to fit my need and repair all I can, my car, dvd player and whatnot. This being said, I try to do everything on my own.

So for my project, I bought a LCD screen some months ago.
The LG L204WT (wide) and now I will strip this thing down and make my own cintiq.
I also went to a local store where they sell stuff for electronics and mecanics and I will also make some sort of tripod to fit with the overall new cintiq. I'm gonna be able to rotate 360 the screen, also tilting it and lifting over if I need to. I am unsure of what the final result will be in point of esthetic but it should be overall ok.

Alright so now I have a couple of question in mind.
Because I want a big canvas to work on I have this tablet in mind: http://direct.wacom.com/stores/2/Refurbished_Intuos2_12x18_-_40_P730C35.cfm

12X18 Wacom
10.8X17.3 Screen.

1.2 and  .7 inches left over the edges. I guess I will need to recalibrate my wacom on ''define area'' by the programm I supose?
Also, what you think of the LG screen to make that? I really don't want to waste a 400$ on a try, so maybe so of you can tell me if is worth the shot or not with a LG.

Please be aware that this project is gonna see his end somewhere in January, but is gonna be build that is for sure. If it cost me 3000$ i'm still saving money from buying at wacom:D

P.S. My main speaking language is french/Spanish so forgive me.

Cheers,

Bhrazz


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on December 12, 2006, 11:58:43 PM
Guess Drew can move this to the new help section^^

Yay me for posting to fast:D


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on December 13, 2006, 12:29:30 AM
It's fine here. I think it would be OK as part of your build log.

I'm a games artist too, since 1987, perhaps I should get a real job now. ::) ;D
 
The Wacom drivers are very easy to set up for different areas of the screen or the tablet so size should be OK.

Most monitors I've seen her and on DIY Projector forums would be OK for building I think.  On the projector forums there used to be a lot of talk of finding monitors without flat cables (FFCs) because they were hard to extend,  but now there are places that sell extension kits for these flat cables, this is not a problem anymore.


Sometimes the boards on the edge of the screen can be too big to fit inside the wacom case, so you might have to be creative with extending the case a little or making a new one  like Ya3 and r3d373 are planning.



Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: chingwa on December 13, 2006, 12:45:30 AM
Hey Bhrazz, welcome!  It looks like we are both attempting a similar build... I'm using a 19" Westinghouse monitor with a 12" x 18" intuos 1 tablet... I imagine essentially are builds will be very similar.  However each monitor can present it's own challenges depending on how it is configured on the inside.  Diferent manufacturers tend to use their own boards/cables/ribbons... so unfortunately nothing is standardized.

I'm planning on building my own case from scratch, and was also thinkin of doing a rotasting stand.  We'll see how it goes.  Good luck on your build!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on December 13, 2006, 01:35:19 AM
hehe, this community is been so friendly with me....just wow. Thanks for that everyone. Someone sent me this item in sell at ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WACOM-UD1825R-TABLET-18-x24-Writing-Area_W0QQitemZ140063473526QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3680QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'll see how hard is gonna take me to get the pen but for 10$ is kinda worth a shot:)
I was thinking getting an intuos 12X18 brand new(refurbish) so I wouldnt bother anymore with upgrade or such things. But meh, 10$+shipping is fair enough. Only pressure will be affected.

Like chingwa said, I want to make a case as well. I'm just unsure if I should make it in metal or plastic. Plastic is much easier to use but more fragile. We'll see! I can't wait to get inside all those cable=)


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: r3d373 on December 13, 2006, 07:21:04 PM
Hi Bhrazz. Sound like it's gonna be a good build.
I'm also doing a 12x18" with a 19" widescreen monitor. I've got everything I need now except the important part, the tablet!
I got it thru eBay. The seller posted it and it left the US on the 6th. The Parcelforce (UK postage company) have got it listed as using 48h delivery but no tracking has been added by them.
I'm guessing it's being held up by customs.

As Drewid said, I'm extending cables. Rather that extending internal signal cables (possible signal loss issues), I'm adding an extension for board to board power and a shielded short VGA extension.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on December 14, 2006, 09:09:50 AM
Hey bhrazz, does your monitor have an external power brick?
If the power convertor is inside the monitor you're going to have some extra work to do. :-\
It will need to be shielded to stop bad magnetic fields.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on December 15, 2006, 09:31:32 AM
Hey bhrazz, does your monitor have an external power brick?
If the power convertor is inside the monitor you're going to have some extra work to do. :-\
It will need to be shielded to stop bad magnetic fields.

It does have some sort of brick but is in cylinder.... pretty small like the size of your thumbs. Not sure if is that but I'm willing to do everything I can to make this work! im waiting on chingua to finish his own and see how it goes with the adapter.

Edit: I just put my current wacom over my screen (wich should be close enough) and it does not interfer, so I'm good on that point!:D


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on January 09, 2007, 07:40:16 PM
The wacom is on the way! Soon this thread with picture. I got a nice 12X12 UD. Will update as soon as I can!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on January 09, 2007, 11:21:11 PM
I like your idea of trying the wacom over the screen. That's a good piece of thinking, everyone should do that before they start taking stuff apart :)


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: robcat2075 on January 10, 2007, 06:42:02 PM
Don't the wacoms have a shield inthe back?  That would prevent the LCD from interfering with a not-disassembled tablet but might not tell you how things would work once you had them sandwiched together.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on January 10, 2007, 07:10:53 PM
That's kind of the point.

Magnetic fields are very very difficult to shield.  If your monitor produces interferences of a bad frequency then shielding it may be next to impossible.  Reading that Wacom "how it works" thing they use a mixture of shielding and careful selection of components to stop problems in tablet PCs and Cintiqs.

If the guts of the monitor don't interfere through the shield the either the shield works, for the monitor doesn't interfere, or it interferes on a frequency that doesn't matter.   

If the monitor interferes through the shield then it will still interfere when it's all bolted together, so perhaps it's not worth stripping it all apart in the first place.  Stick the monitor on your PC instead and add it on to the "dodgy monitors" list.   ;D


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 10, 2007, 11:37:46 PM
Alright, after many time, I finally got the chance to get the stuff I needed to. First things first. I've got the wacom from ebay for 200$. And another 200$ for the monitor wich I bought brand new from best buy. After looking around at some different spot for buying my screen, I never found any monitor with the adapter on the cable, they are all coming integrated inside the monitor, wich is bad. So think week I finally have some time off and people who love me finally decided to let me do some of MY STUFF! ;D

Here is one the beast, wacom 12X12UD, pretty common.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/wacom_01.jpg)

Pretty easy to open, no seal(even if I don't have any warranty.) Just 4 screw and bam, is there, nothing seem to be very complicated from there.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/wacom_02.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/wacom_03.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/wacom_04.jpg)

After that, I got into the monitor....
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_01.jpg)
I feel almost bad to open such a beatifull case. However it came whit such a crappy stand, I didnt feel bad very long.

When I was shopping, this monitor was one of the only to fit my need that didnt have any seal. I knew from the begining it might not be working with the project but I decided to give a shot anyways. This picture show where to open it, and be carefull to not scratch to much the plastic.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_01.jpg)

And this is inside, this is where thing start getting hot!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_02.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_03.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_04.jpg)

And then, I started to make the final test and see if it was working with the shield anyways. The set-up is right there.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/monitor_05.jpg)



...And it didnt work. Packed back, bring it back, gonna shop another monitor with the adapter outside the monitor, should find something quickly!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Tanassi on February 11, 2007, 10:54:45 AM
Hi Bhrazz,

good luck with your build, and i was curious about the proximity distance of your ultrapad, on my ultrapad digit. II 12*18" i've measured a total of ~12.5mm from the sensor circuit board to the maximum reading height, it can vary of ab. 0.5mm from point to point.

Vince


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 11, 2007, 07:35:49 PM
hi Tanasi, The pen readin stop somewhere between .5inches to .6 inches.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 12, 2007, 06:53:25 AM
Does anyone know if any compagny still making LCD'S with external supply. Look I can't find anything...


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 15, 2007, 12:51:48 AM
Today I found a pretty cheap monitor with an external power supply. It was the cheapest I didnt look at it when I entered the store but at my grand surprise it had everything I was looking for.
Cheapest quality
Cheapest Price

Everything was on the table. For those living in canada you can purchase this lovely piece of ''Cough'' ''Cough'' at bestbuy.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10078119&catid=20371


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on February 16, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
Samtak?


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 16, 2007, 08:25:51 PM
yea a samtak


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 16, 2007, 08:36:32 PM
So today I got pretty much everything working. At my first test I didnt remove the back metal panel and that was causin interference, So I took it off as well and got everything working with the pen/wacom/monitor. A bitch to map the wacom over the screen since I have around 1.5 inch horizontal and 1 inch down from Vertical. That being said, im loosin a bit of work space but is alright.=D

Here are the pic of the new monitor.

First thing I have in mind is to remove the speaker from this ugly piece, I feel good knowing what im about to do to this monitor!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_01.jpg)
Rear of the monitor, 4 screw and bam, is open!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_02.jpg)
GROUND YOUR SELF!!!!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_03.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_04.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_05.jpg)

All cable had the same color and I didnt know where will be those cable at the end, So I took some sketchy note!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_06.jpg)
Just by looking at the FFC and the glue went away.... Wondering if this is build in korea or China now.... Make me remember my old CRT Korean Data System^^
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_07.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_08.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_09.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_10.jpg)

And forgive me, I completly forgot to take pics of the ''test''. Basic story: Just put the lcd over the wacom and it worked pretty well. As I said, The monitor is 1.5inch bigger on horizontal and smaller on the vertical. It was a bit hard to map/coordinate with the wacom but I guess i'll do that when is really gonna be center.

On a side note.... Is much much simplier than I tought. I had no problem what so ever except time consuming project. But the time invested here make me same money and time from what im gonna use it for. Now, what I have in mind is to make the case the tinner I can. So i can draw with it on my knee. I want it to be ''compac'' and easy to handle when it come the time to draw.

Guess i'll be doing the last part on sunday and might be done in a week or so. Posting more pics as soon as I can and will make a lil video:D


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Rumi on February 16, 2007, 10:24:27 PM
Congratulations! Nice one.
Did you have any FFC problems with this monitor (hehe Samtak!)?
Do you get any jittering at all?
What make is the LCD unit?


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 17, 2007, 12:36:22 AM
No jitter at all.
The FFC came with glue to hold it to the plug. It ''unglued'' as soon as I touched it. I can plug it in, plug it out whenever I feel too, there is no clip to hold it. I'll find a solution to hold it down before I close the case.

Everything went super smooth and I havent get any complication  (YET!). I'll recommand this screen anytime for the homemade cintiq purpose.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 19, 2007, 02:13:59 AM
Thought I'll update this before the week start. So far what I've done this week-end is plastic cutting. Thinking and placing card. Finally I found That I can make it fit all inside the wacom box. Might not be the best ''esthetic'' design but this is all about sketchy!
This is the working area. I have so far 12X11 inches of screen display. Also I wanted to have access at the monitor button so I added some holes to the left side. Button are around 0.2mm under the hole, that way I won't get any accident with them.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_11.jpg)

That's the rear of the Wacom top cover. As you can see how I fitted the Monitor button.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_12.jpg)

Close shot of it.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_13.jpg)

Rear of the wacom. The card there is the monitor, I added a plastic cover there but I think i'm just gonna screw something all over this hole. Input are all coming from the top of the wacom.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_14.jpg)

Inside the box, All left to do here is to shield those and put the wacom/monitor over it. The wacom case should fit perfectly. So I'll be fitting my Monitor inside the wacom instead of the wacom inside the monitor as I wanted to do before I started.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/Newm_15.jpg)


I might be done by next week-end but is my friend Bday so I'm not sure.

The only thing I can't figure out is: Should I add plastic or glass over the working area?


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on February 19, 2007, 02:48:21 AM
DEFINATLY, nice job, but you definatly should, otherwise you get scratches and pressure marks.  Also, you might want to get felt nibs from wacom.  I just ordered mine today, Drew said they have a great feel and dont scratch acrylic.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on February 19, 2007, 10:05:44 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: DonShole on February 21, 2007, 08:05:09 PM
Congrats!  ;D Another succesful build.  The bottom line is use a wacom!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: naspc on February 22, 2007, 06:17:24 AM
hey bhrazz, is the wacom  you used something liek this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wacom-9x12-Tablet-with-mouse-and-stylus_W0QQitemZ250086051777QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3680QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and if is did actually get everything lcd/wacom to fit in the wacom casing?


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Tanassi on February 22, 2007, 09:41:11 AM
Cool Bhrazz,

congratulations, beautiful casing are you building!
i would do something like yours but the monitor control board does'nt fit the tablet case  :'(

@naspc: no, Bhrazz is using an old Ultrapad series, the one you've posted is a Intuos I series (better then Ultrapad), but pay attention, that tablet has an ADB (means Apple only) connection.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: naspc on February 22, 2007, 08:25:10 PM
thanks for the heads up!  i didn't know that!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 22, 2007, 09:24:32 PM
Hey folks, thanks for the cheers, I'm actually writing this by the LCD/Wacom waxoff. I'll try to make a picture asap. what I'm trying to do is to fit the whole LCD image to the wacom zone. Is kind of frustrating trying to drag a window that is behind the plastic.

Is anyone aware if any ''software'' can adjust the display area of a screen? My screen adjustment just let me tilt it up and down and left to right. Nvidia software just let me rotate it =\. I want to do is to shrink the image by the horizontal and make it fit perfectly to the plastic cut.... If anyone got some knowledge on that, i'll appreciate it.

Making an upload picture as soon as everything is unplug and ''finish''.
Cheers
Bhrazz


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 22, 2007, 09:51:12 PM
http://www.mfrac.com/software-updates/2003/

Something like this but easier to find


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on February 22, 2007, 11:08:51 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to make the hole bigger?
 ???


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 22, 2007, 11:14:58 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to make the hole bigger?
 ???

Indeed yes. BUT! The wacom stop on those edges and I don't want to!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 22, 2007, 11:52:12 PM
Problem solved!
Powerstrip is THE good stuff


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on February 23, 2007, 01:59:53 AM
Alright I got all ''major'' problem solved and everything on track but 1 only thing keep bothering me. I can live with this trouble but I'd like to have a solution for it. I'm not sure if Is my pen, the wacom and pen spacing(Wich I doubt) but When I drag my pen and lift it off the wacom don't ''capture'' it as I lift it up. What is doing exactly, is when I lift the pen and try to use the keyboard it don't work(photoshop), is still thinking im holding the pen down and I can't use any keyboard shortcut(I use them all the time). Sometime, I also loose some part of the stroke(rarely). It happen most of the time when I tryed with the glass/plastic over the screen. I'm thinking is the pen but i'm still unsure. Did anyone had this happen?


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on February 23, 2007, 02:57:56 AM
Mabye because you pulled it off the wacom too fast and it couldnt register it so it assumed it was still on and was trying to locate it.  Try pulling it off slower and see if that works.

Just a theory


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on March 01, 2007, 11:45:12 PM
Alright after many frustration with this pen malfunction I finally understood what was wrong. The Wacom was curved.... So I had to make more pressure so it can be closer/more planar with the pen position. Having to re-open the case was not making me happy but I had to. So yesterday I got the chance to fix it, and right now is working perfectly as intended.

The curved wacom:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/02cpu.jpg)

Metal spacer, I will screw 7 different pressure point on the back of it, that way im making sure i won't need to re-open it again.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/03cpu.jpg)

The back of the wacom, from here i'll be able to screw/unscrew to make the pressure. Might not be the best esthetic but I just want to make it work! And is all about improvising!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/05cpu.jpg)

And finally!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/04cpu.jpg)

I'd like to make a video with a quick scketch to see how the pointer react etc... But I need to get my camera back from a friend, so that's gonna be on hold for couple of days.

And I need to make a research about the ''Included powersupply'' within the monitor. In the indusrty, we call it PCV, wich is a kind of metal that shield magnetic field. People who can't find any monitor with a external powersupply just need to shield a case with a PCV sheet. Anyways, I'll post a little youtube video soon. Anyone have a question feel free!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: naspc on March 02, 2007, 12:21:28 AM
nice very nice


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on March 02, 2007, 01:06:24 AM
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=pvc+sheet&category0=&submitSearch=Search

That?

Looks nice so far, and that stuff isnt expensive!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: naspc on March 02, 2007, 01:21:15 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fetish-Vinyl-PVC-Play-Sheet-Black-24-99_W0QQitemZ320087879397QQihZ011QQcategoryZ19257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

hehehehe


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on March 02, 2007, 01:55:15 AM
saw that lol  seems pvc also is bed sheets


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: naspc on March 02, 2007, 01:59:28 AM
"Perfect for those bedroom games that may get a bit messy!"

i guess you can get kinky on the active area of your diy cintiq!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on March 02, 2007, 02:06:56 AM
lmfao


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on March 02, 2007, 10:27:42 AM
I'm doing the "happy happy joy joy" dance.  Nice one Bhrazz.


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Bhrazz on March 05, 2007, 02:17:09 AM
and the first achievement using 100% my new wacom:D

Gotta love it, is sooooo much more interactive! Take around 3-5 around to get used to it, but hell ya it was worth all the work!

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/clos3d/traincity.jpg)


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Switz on March 05, 2007, 04:10:02 AM
Shit dude thats friggen awesome!


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: dynam1c on March 05, 2007, 12:52:11 PM
nice nice.. congrads another successful build another sweet ass pic. !

drew have you got a section for successful build ppl to show their finished product and pieces of work done via their lovely creations? If so Bhrazz post on there.. if not.. Drew please make one and then Bhrazz post on there. !!

Seeing a post full of other peoples completed devices and art work can only act as inspiration for the coming generations, or ol' ba$tards like me who still cant find the damn correct plug..


Title: Re: Bhrazz Build log
Post by: Drewid on March 05, 2007, 03:30:09 PM
There's a gallery section here ->
http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?board=12.0
Feel free to post a photo of the finished tablet in the same thread as well. ;D