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1  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Re: Cintiq HD on: February 05, 2010, 04:10:23 AM
I've been a little quiet lately so a small update: I tried to reduce the jitter as much as possible putting foil between the wacom digitiser and the ccfls and the controller board and again over the top and it works to an extent, the middle of the screen is very much passable... only a few pixels of jitter but anywhere close to the ccfls still causes problems. Also tried various refresh rates, no noticable difference.

drewid - the ccfls are moulded into the diffuse layer so all plastic.

Now it seems the ccfls are a problem, and at this point I'm considering using led lighting, thankfully there's a 21.5" led lit monitor on the market which saves me having to go to the hassle of doing it myself and its a fair bit cheaper than the samsung I have been using so it has been purchased and I am awaiting delivery! I suspect the panel is the same since there probably aren't too many 1920 21.5" panels floating around, so hopefully it will come with the single controller board and there won't be a row board. Unfortunately the PSU is internal, but it may be workable, will be interesting to see what the boards on the led lit monitor look like; I would love just to be able to plug the samsung boards into the led panel, but we shall see. Smiley
2  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Re: Cintiq HD on: January 28, 2010, 05:36:45 PM
Okay, so I removed the frame completely, and it now senses the pen but there is a LOT of jitter near the top AND bottom of the screen Sad

That said I've not shielded any components yet, I literally have the screen with reflective and diffuse layers (the diffuse layer has the ccfls built into it), a sheet of wraping paper and then the bare wacom digitiser itself. the column board and other boards are not shielded either. The jittering is definitely worst near the column board, which of course I can shield but not sure what I can do with the ccfls which run along the top and bottom... I would really rather not have to go to the hassle of replacing these with leds. Sad
3  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Re: Cintiq HD on: January 28, 2010, 03:35:05 PM
Okay the pen won't even pass through tin foil... strange I remember other people using foil between the digitiser and pen no problem, maybe I was mistaken? It would make sense not to pass I guess lol.

So now what? Do I cut the back out and hope the diffuse panel is upto it? I guess paper would reflect a fair amount of light... still not looking forward to cutting this monitor open >_<
4  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Re: Cintiq HD on: January 28, 2010, 03:24:09 PM
Damn... I took the front plastic off the Wacom and tested laying the monitor on top of it again, pen still not working above it, so I assume the back of the monitor frame is is stopping the wacom and pen passing the signal through. Sad


Should I attempt to remove the frame? =D Obviously removing the monitor frame is somewhat problematic as that is keeping everything together, I'm thinking maybe I could cut around most of the backing to leave a small bezel the size of the the front bezel so there is nothing behind. I assume the back may be reflective and is being used to aid the diffuser panel and light the screen and that I will need some reflective material to go behind the difuser panel, I guess tin foil would do the job and it would be lot thinner than the steel frame.


And as for stands, yes there are some lovely monitor arms and I had been thinking about these because I would like to be able to put the wacom vertically for traditional non wacom use since it will be my only screen. The only problem is that if I lean on it the arm will simply move backwards? Also the wacom has a lot of flex, so I will be gluing a sheet of aluminium to the back, this will give me something strong to add vesa mounts into for a stand as well. Smiley
5  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Re: Cintiq HD on: January 28, 2010, 02:43:37 PM
cellofaan - Thanks Smiley And yes there is no row board, which is great as it means one less thing to worry about!

No the 12x19 intuos doesn't have the nice clear plastic top of the A4 model unfortunately.

On attaching the screen, I may go down the tape root, as I want to keep this simple... often its very easy to over-engineer something. Plus I will need to put some tape over the back of the monitor anyway to insulate against the digitiser panel. One Idea I currently have is to cut the base threads off a few motherboard risers, glue them to the front plastic panel and use screws and washers to "clamp" around the edge of the screen down in place. The only problem with this is that I would lose a couple of mm depth due to the washer and screw heads.

tuszi - That actually sounds somewhat familiar, I think I did hear that somewhere, well regardless I opened it back up and had a play about. In short YES it is needed AND yes distance does matter, A LOT! Initially I removed the metal sheet and had noticable jitter in a few areas... suprisingly these weren't anywhere near to the controller board so no idea as to what may have caused them. Second test, I wrapped the metal sheet in a thin layer of christmas wrapping paper as so it wasn't directly touching the digitiser board and placed it behind the digitiser, so there was no longer the sytrofoam panel between the digitiser and the metal sheet. Results; it worked without jitter but severly cut the pen depth, the distance I could have it from the tablet by about half from 2cm to 1cm! Now one of course has to wonder at this point whether increasing the distance past the standard increases the hover distance, so in the name of science(!) for the third test I moved the sheet metal back behind the styrofoam, and added 15mm paper between the styofoam and the digitiser in one corner of the Wacom, so there was now a greater distance between the digitiser and metal sheet. And yes it did improve the hover distance of the pen! By a fair bit as well! Writing with the pen 15mm above the Wacom was fluid even at extreme angles. Which I would say is comparable to probably 10mm off the tablet without the extra distance between the digitiser and sheet metal; at 15mm the pen would lose its position and have difficulty. So a 5mm+ gain maybe. That said extending the distance uniformally anymore than default would be problematic due to the digitiser controller getting in the way (see last picture of previous post) and would not be worth the hassle trying to extend the connection.
6  Screen Tablet malarky / Build Logs / Cintiq HD on: January 27, 2010, 01:56:52 AM
Long time lurker here, I originally thought about building a Cintiq a long time ago but ended up purchasing a 15X, this did me great but the 1024x768 resolution has its limits with docks, palettes and GUIs taking up so much screen estate, I wanted something bigger, but the 21UX was out of my price league, so I began my quest.

It appeared that Wacoms largest panels the Intuos 3 and 4 with a 12x19" active area could probably take upto a 22" monitor so I looked to see if any 1920x1080/1200 monitors existed with an external power supply, I came across the Samsung P2270 a 21.5" 1920x1080 monitor with external power brick. It's boasts ridiculously low power consumption (28w) and is a no frills monitor, with only a single DVI connection and the power connection on the back; ammusingly reviews were quick to slate the monitor on these points, but made it a great potential choice for a Wacom build, my only concern is that the monitor buttons aren't tactile and may be a problem, but I'm not letting that deter me so I ordered one:

P2270 Spec page

Silly touch screen "buttons"!

Also purchased the Wacom, an Intuos 3 12x19":

A couple of initial point on the Wacom: I assumed the 12x19" would be like the A4 version in that the entire top is clear plastic and had planned to use that for my protective screen as someone else had in their build, but turns out this is not the case; its cheap grey plastic and cutting a hole in the middle and mounting a piece of acrylic is required. Secondly; the Wacom is quite thick, 35mm at its thickest point; obviously the digitiser panel isn't taking up anywhere near that amount of space so there should be a lot of room to work with and it may be possible to fit the monitor panel into the original wacom case!

Disassembling the monitor:

Monitor turned up, hooked it up to check for dead pixels, thankfully it was fine, decent screen, if a little blue'ish on default settings:

Samsung kindly reminded me that the monitor is indeed Windows 7 compatible, heh! Roll Eyes

Right, time to open this baby up! Of course Samsung being Samsung opted not to use screws and to open the monitor you have to pry it open with a knife in the seam:

First bit of good news is that the front touch panel is nicely cabled and looks easy to remove, so it should be easy to work into my build... obviously integrating it into the front of my wacom will cause issues as my arm will be lying across it so I plan to put the touch panel on the back somewhere. Now if the front was a sight to behold, imagine how estatic I was to see the back:

(Back innards for anyone who cares)

WOW! No FFC cable coming off the controller board?! Only two tiny, thin pcbs with lots of wire?! It's an amazingly clean setup! One small problem was that the frame extrudes slightly on the controller board side (presumably to protect the controller board cables) which meant to flip the controller board would be hard without trimming it down, so I removed the front of the frame and cut it down to size with a small hack saw:

This was not really an issue as I needed to spray the frame black anyway. I also put some electrical tape across the cut to avoid any sharp edges coming into contact with the controller board cables.

First test:

Layed the monitor on top of my wacom and connected up, it turns on, a start at least!

Unfortunately I can't hover the pen across the monitor screen to test jitter! It's hard to explain, but hovering at the height of the screen the cursor won't move but if the pen is physically pressed against something (even lightly) the movements can be tracked (like when say doing the paper test). Since I don't have my screen overlay yet I can't put any pressure on the screen. Also I think it will help once I put my screen inside my Wacom because there's a good 8mm I can gain (6mm after I put in the plastic or glass screen) and should give me some hovering space above the screen.


Anything I can do in the Wacom control panel to increase the sensitivity depth of the pen or similar?

Moving on:

Disassembling the Wacom:

Now to get an idea of what the wacom looks like inside! The screws were easy but careful as there are also two clips near the top - I broke one off in the process! Sad

From the back:

It doesn't show well in the photo, but the blue sheet is actually the dull reverse of a thin reflective sheet, presumably to act as a barrier to any interference from the controller board?

I wonder if this styrofoam (?) actually serves any use? I plan to remove some of it to fit my monitor panel in. Also between the plastic of the front panel and the digitizser there is about 4mm to play with, giving me even more room for my monitor and protective screen:

Due to the connector design on the wacom controller, the styofoam needs to stay, but I can put the reflective layer between the digitiser and the styrofoam and make cut outs for my monitor pcbs towards the top. Due to the design of the wacom case being tapered and larger at the top, the top will accomodate all of this with some trimming to the plastic supports. Some of the styrofoam may have to be cut near the bottom, due to the tapered design, to fit the monitor in.

Going back to how I plan to fit the monitor into the case it will be layered like this (as if the Wacom was layed upside down):

[Bottom plastic]
[Wacom controller board and monitor boards]
[Styrofoam] (Original thick sheet from Wacom, with holes dug out to house the monitor boards)
[Reflective sheet] (Optional?)
[Tape or paper] (to insluate/dampen like the original sheet of styrofoam would have done, optional?)
[Wacom Digitiser panel]
[Monitor and controller board] (Controller board insulated with tape)
[Sheet of Lexan or Glass] (Possibly 2mm)
[Front plastic]

Also I still need to figure out EXACTLY how I will attach the monitor and hold it in place... could glue it but don't really want to, would be nice to have a bracket and screw of some description holding everything in place but I don't have many tools!

To be updated...

Queries and things I need to address:

1. Anything I can do in the Wacom control panel that might aid the build, like increase pen hover depth?
2. Good plastic or glass or material I can use to go over my screen?
3. Ideas on how I can mount my screen inside my tablet.
4. Ideas for a stand... would love to mount it to a Cintiq 21UX stand, but asides from Wacom themselves I don't know of anywhere that sells them.
5. Anyone in the UK have some felt pen nibs they want to sell me?

7  Screen Tablet malarky / Heyaaaalpppp / Re: Protective screen suggestions on: January 26, 2010, 10:00:10 PM
Since changing to felt nibs have you had any more scratches?
8  Screen Tablet malarky / The Trading post / Wanted: Felt Nibs + Cintiq Stand on: January 26, 2010, 06:21:33 PM
Anyone know where I could obtain a Wacom Cintiq or PL rotating stand from? Wacom stock them on their site but at ridiculous prices:

The other thing I need are felt nibs for an intuous 3 grip pen, only need a couple. If anyone in the UK had a coulpe they would be willing to sell cheap that would be much appreciated. Smiley
9  Screen Tablet malarky / Heyaaaalpppp / Re: Protective screen suggestions on: January 26, 2010, 10:05:19 AM
Anyone?  Huh
10  Screen Tablet malarky / Heyaaaalpppp / Protective screen suggestions on: January 16, 2010, 01:48:48 AM
I've not yet started my build (which will be using an a3 intuos 3) and I am looking around at ideas for what I can put above the screen as a protective layer, I own a old cintiq 15x and the plastic surface is very scratch resistant and feels great to work on compared to glass based tablets, so I want to have a plastic screen over a glass one, so what scratch resistant plastics do people recommend? Is there anything out there similar to the protective layer on the old cintiq? I have been looking at sheets of lexan... as its meant to be a lot more scratch resistant compared to regular acrylic? Anyone know if lexan would be good enough and scratch resistant enough from use with a regular wacom pen nib? I am aware i could use felt nibs but since i'm putting a lot of money into this tablet I want to ensure the screen can withstand heavy use and not get scratched to hell.

11  Screen Tablet malarky / Monitors / Anyone tried a Samsung P2270? 21.5" Full HD monitor with EXTERNAL BRICK! on: January 11, 2010, 06:57:17 AM
Anyone tried a samsung p2270 monitor in a build? it's a 21.5" 1920x1080 monitor with a very slim design and an external power brick. also power consumption is less than other monitors of it's size, so might be great for a build. my only concern is that the monitor buttons are touch sensitive so they may be a pain to relocate in my build, since i don't plan on using any of the monitor casing. anyone have any experience with this monitor?

12  General Category / Who are you? a.k.a WHY CAN'T I POST? / Re: READ THIS FIRST, OR YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST on: January 11, 2010, 06:49:03 AM
not a bot  Grin
13  General Category / Who are you? a.k.a WHY CAN'T I POST? / Re: READ THIS FIRST, OR YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST on: January 11, 2010, 06:48:56 AM
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14  General Category / Who are you? a.k.a WHY CAN'T I POST? / Re: READ THIS FIRST, OR YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST on: January 11, 2010, 06:48:46 AM
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