March 27, 2017, 07:44:16 AM *
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 on: March 07, 2017, 07:49:49 AM 
Started by Switz - Last post by xxionline
Hello Bongofish.

 on: March 05, 2017, 09:40:10 PM 
Started by Forestfrog - Last post by Forestfrog
Thank you again for your reply, DaBotz. I am learning things  Cheesy

No time for any progress this weekend, but I did a bit of testing right now, with results I cannot really classify.

As the reading height was the thing that irked me the most right now, I did the paperstack-test.

Paper directly on digitizer, nothing in-between: 19,5-20mm reading height
Panel layers(turned off) on digitizer, paper on panel layers: 19,00mm reading height
Panel layers(turned on) on digitizer, paper on panel layers: 17,00mm (!) - which is acutally pretty good, compared to what I got before, when barely lifting the pen above the ~8-9mm of panel height(with bezel) gave me dropouts.

Also with panel turned on, little jitter almost everywhere (did not test consistently, as I only have A4 paper and did not want to move it all over the panel surface.)

There is another issue with the pen: It seems as if the tablet does take some time to recongize it, or if this has to be triggered by opening the driver window. Before doing this, then pen is dead for about a minute after I have the windows desktop. I still have to test if it is one or the other of the above or both. This also happened when working with bare digitizer, so it seems to be no interference issue. Once "found"(and within reading height) the pen/cursor glides as smooth as expected of a wacom product)

(I had to buy the classic pen separate from the Intuos4, as it came without any pen. Opted for classic pen instead of grip pen as I prefer a slim stylus)

 on: March 04, 2017, 02:49:30 PM 
Started by Forestfrog - Last post by DaBotz
By geometry, I simply men the way you lay the stuff in the build, or details in the frame of the LCD.

Check that the Wacom board and its back metal pate  are plane and at the right distance one from each other (without the back metal plate, the reading height goes down significantly, and I have read somewhere here that some managed to augment it in their bit, by carefully augmenting the distance between the plate and the antennas board).
I realize that it is hardly going to be your case, as you were testing it "bare", but I have taken this habit of not moving the LCD, unless I have reassembled it enough that it is safe to handle without an excessive care.

In the case of my last build, I carved out the centre of the LCD backplate and remounted the remaining frame. It made my stripped LD almost as solid as it originally was, but it also meant that I conserved the half mm ridge that it has all around.

Then I connected it with the TCon board, so that those precious FFC didn't have to fear any mechanical stress. using two stainless steel flanges - and I added a couple of mm there.

Then lose another couple in the way the Wacom sat inside the case.

In the end, the first test run was terrible, because it looked like the new screen (which is 3 mm thinner than the old one, the glorious HP LE2201) gave me a worse reading height and more false clicks.

Then, I realized - and fixed - those small mistakes, and the end result is nice enough.

As far as how come nobody outside Wacom seems to be able to do a decent self-calibrating driver, it would just be really nice if they added a manual calibration interface for the ones like us.

Our panels may not be the same, but are still more similar that the ones in the IPS225v (which use a flat ffc instead of single cable, to power the led).

Also, being engineers a shy race averse to changing things just because, I would expect them to share as much characteristics as possible (for example, the LVDS timing characteristics).

On the other hands, my builds use Intuos 2 which, I suspect, where designed with more tolerance for EMF interference, and for going behind much thicker screens.

I never had to contact the admin or mods in this forum, so I have no idea...

 on: March 01, 2017, 08:44:12 AM 
Started by Forestfrog - Last post by Forestfrog
Thank you for your reply, DaBotz  Smiley

I would decribe the driver/calibration issue with the cintiq-alternatives like this - with the DIY-cintiq there are already some regions where it is perfectly good, and others where it is off, but there are driver functions that can be adjusted, hopefully correcting this. With the cintiq-alternatives, it is always and everywhere slightly off, and no way to correct it. (And of course parallax is already factored into it - it did not affect using the tablet for me).

Also I just checked, your monitor and the one I used were added to the prad-database with about 2 years difference, I don't know how long a certain panel model usually is used, but indeed they look quite similar.
I guess I will do a height check with the stack of paper on the digitizier and no panel in between, just to check if there is something off.

And coming from a totally different direction: I don't know if grounding might be and issue - the wall outlet the setup is connected to has little/bad grounding (old house). I will connect it to the one new outlet in the room and see if this does make any difference.

If it would not be too much of a hassle - could you drop some more keywords regarding what you call geometry? I am always thankful of getting a hint about stuff I may have been totally oblivious of before.

And finally, something completely different: I have an account issue, sent messages to Bernard, Aerendraca and Drewid already, but no reply since days - do you know how to reach someone who can access the "higher functions" of the forum?

 on: February 27, 2017, 02:56:26 PM 
Started by Forestfrog - Last post by DaBotz
Calibration is often the weakest point of the "would-be Cintiqs" - none seems to work all that well.

Note that with a DIY, it is going to be a lot less easier - it is not the driver that does it for you but, as it is NOT it doing the work (in some half-botched way), you can finesse it over time.

The panel looks a lot like the one in the LG IPS224v that I used to overhaul my second build, but I am perplexed from the lack of reading height.

None of my builds (the four of them that I have at home...  I know, that's called mania; when I see a tablet and a screen, I feel this urge to rape the second on top of the first) has less than three mm of reading height above its glass cover (mostly, 3 mm thick), and they comprehend an unopened Intuos 4, with a laptop panel and a 2mm glass.

Check well the geometry of the assembly - with a build that big, it is very easy to "lose" mm of height, more so in this preliminary stage, that can be recovered with a careful final construction.

 on: February 27, 2017, 04:32:49 AM 
Started by DaBotz - Last post by DaBotz
Fast update...

Elegant as it was, the big glass panel and its overhangs proved too fragile. After I broke it a second time, I decided to limit the glass area to the bare minimum... and brought back the duct tape. In turn, it got me to recuperate some more tenth of mm, which helps - maybe more by the reduction of parallax than an improvement of the pen precision (though, I feel this has improved, too).

I left open the areas of the perimeter frame where the flanges reach to it.

The resulting chimney effect - I never draw keeping it ,ore horizontal than 45º - seems to  be enough to cool down a bit the thing.

Given how much I use it (being very steady, it makes faster ), if I ever were to rebuild the case, I would directly integrate the 9.7" Miniq on the right, so that both screens are under the same glass... given the fact that its digitiser and the screen, together, are some 7 mm thick whereas the main panel is 10 mm. it would be easy to overlap them and get the two screens at some 5 cm of distance ( not less, alas), the God of E.M.I permitting it (or a judicious use of shielding... I think that in his case it could help).

As a final note...

"In truth I shall say: a better screen and a nicer pen feel better than a newer digitizer."

I should try to lay my hands on an Intuos 4 "classic pen", but one hundred bucks is a bit too much for a curiosity.

For now, I still feel that the design had progressed (the Intuos 4 is very beautiful, with its OLED labels for the buttons) but user experience - for me - did so much, much less.

Final note: Wacom Driver 6.1.7-3 handle both the Intuos 2 and the Intuos 4 handsomely, if anybody else has a mixed bag Intuoses. Also, I have seen that  the same should do, in Windows 7 and beyond, Driver version 6.3.6-3

 on: February 25, 2017, 01:48:02 PM 
Started by Forestfrog - Last post by Forestfrog
Hey there,

getting in line of the "giving making a DIY-Cintiq a try"-ers.

A little background: Actually I got a drawing monitor some time ago, the UGee 2150. Maybe someone is shaking their head, going "why would that idiot want a DIY-Cintiq then??" Well, it is a mixed bag.

The screen/hardware itself is very good, as far as I can judge, screen is very crisp, great colors, little heat, pen pressure works ok, little lag, but  - and here I am looking at the other half - the driver is quite special.
Not many options - that I could live with. Calibration is...tricky. I can't get it right, for example I started to fudge on the height after a lot of tries, clicking the pen about five mm below the calibration marks, so the cursor would line up a bit better with the pen tip, as usually it would hover 5mm above it after a finished calibration.
Then, sometimes there is a loss of function - I have to open the driver panel by using the mouse, do a pressure test there, and then the pen would work again for some time. And some other things that were just a bit off, so I found myself more fiddling with tuning than actually drawing, which started to irritate me. Enough that I considered other options, and having used a Graphire and Intuos 2 A5 earlier I did really like the Wacom driver setup.

Now I found an Intuos4 used on ebay for a steal, only had to buy a new pen (got the classic, not the grip pen) and that made me think of trying to convert it into a monitor tablet, so I pounced.

Got a used screen for another 50€, disassembled it, and here I am.

The hard stuff:

Tablet: Intuos4 XL (PTK-1240) - that thing is huge!
Monitor/Panel: LG IPS 22MP55HQ, with Panel LM215WF3 (SL)(K1). 21,5", IPS, LED-Backlight, external power source - took some time to find that combination without shelling out too much money. Now I hope it isn't one of the hopeless cases that will always play jitterbells.

Additional stuff: Got a roll of copper tape and alumium tape each, will try both for shielding. Also several sheets of plastic foil for insulation.

I did the usual first, place the stripped screen onto the tablet enclosure to check if the pen signal connects - sadly, not at all.
So I removed the top cover of the intuos, put a sheet of plastic foil onto the digitizer and the screen on top of it - better, pen is recognized, but reading height is very low, I'd say only about 2-3mm above the screen. So possibilities of putting a protective sheet on it are "slim" .. haha. Maybe that will improve with shielding.
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
So, all in all right now: The good - it works, mostly.

Jitter: There is some. Very very little in the middle of the screen and towards the top, quite some more towards the bottom (where the long panel-circuirty is) and to the right, where the LED-strip is placed. Which brings me to:

Heat: The LED strip is getting very hot, to a degree where I only left it on for a minute or so, as I started to smell something, likely something being gassed or melting from a plastic by the heat. I had glued the strip(using the remaining glue on its backside) onto the thin black plastic bezel(which I use to keep the panels layers together) that came with the monitor. Originally it was attached to the side lip of the metal backside, but as that had to go of course, now there is no means of getting rid of the heat. I guess I will have to find another way to help with heat dissipation, maybe glueing it to an aluminum sheet angleded outwards?
A minor issue: The LED-strip is not powered by a flat cable, but by some bundled-up wires, which stick out from unter screen (and thereby lifting it up a bit at that corner) due to the angle of the connector. As I can't drill a hole into the digitizer to make room for them, I guess I will try to put the strip at the other side of the screen, so the connector points upwards, there should be more space.

I will take some more pictures and add the next steps planned.

****** Later this day:

I re-positioned the led-strip to let the wires go up instead of down. But this does not solve the problem as expected - the top  two layers of the screen are a bit wider than the lower ones, which I failed to notice before. To place the LED-strip directly against the diffuser-layer, I will either have to
a) displace the upper/lower layers against each other so there is no "step", diverging from how they were inside the original screen
b) exchange the wires against a flat cable - I found where to order them, but unsure what kind of connector I need to look for.

Also I gave shielding a first try: A piece of copper tape (insulated of course) between the panels circuits and the digitizer. Then I noticed (which may have something to do with it or just me not paying proper attention before): The jitter happens(now?) only to the sides of the screen, but there in almost equal strength. So: Middle of the screen (complete top to bottom) is almost jitter-free(I guess 1-2 pixels at most), at the sides (1-2cm) there is some jitter. Placing another strip of copper tape next to one side gave no change.
Random clicks also only appear in those small side-zones occasionally.
Right now, the tip of the pen doesn't seem to click - the cursor is moving, but no input if I touch the surface... but maybe I only changed something in the driver settings - will try again tomorrow.

 on: February 25, 2017, 01:22:01 PM 
Started by Switz - Last post by Forestfrog
Now I found why I could not post a build-log - hello everyone!

 on: February 22, 2017, 11:22:59 PM 
Started by akromatic - Last post by Ertew
I cannot found here any information about USB->serial converter nor USB CDC class (standard for serial adapters). USB descriptors looks like valid for USB tablet, not like tablet attached to serial converter.
I'm not specialist for USB descriptors but text "ISD-V4" looks like name for USB device, like mouse have "USB Laser Mouse" or keyboard "DELL Keybord".
Last thing, just gogle for "ISD-V4". I found zero useful results but a lot of results for "ISDV4" - this is the standard protocol for serial tablets.
So, have a good luck.


Forgot about "8 wires".
If You found twisted pair, You found USB interface. Connect it directly, swap wire if not work.
Next, use multimeter with continuity tester. Connector shield and testpads 'GND', 'AGND', 'DGND' are ground. '3.3VA', '3.3VD' are supply voltage. You must found at least two wires connected to supply rails.
So You should have 4 unidentified wires. If Your laptop working, You can measure voltage on that pins. This pins may be used for diagnostic, detection if Your laptop have digitizer installed (simple jumper at digitizer board), power management and on/off switching (separate for pen and touch) or just information 'pen in use' / 'touch in use'.

 on: February 22, 2017, 12:51:16 AM 
Started by akromatic - Last post by akromatic
Honestly i dont know which route i would be going, I would prefer to use the T731 instead of the T5010 just because it has touch and if it really has USB.

also on the pro side, sticking with the 5v USB theme i believe i  found a LVDS controller that accepts 5v which means i can have the controller powered off USB + wacom off USB and HDMI USB3 adaptor all off a single cable. at the most i'll make a break out box/ Y cable to inject 5v if there is not enough power off the port.

if what you claim about the T731 screen being USB, how do i test and find out which wire is for what? there are 8 wires connected to it.

im pretty sure its USB but im not sure if its a serial device that is connected to an USB converter on the mainboard rather then USB on the wacom itself. under USBtree viewer i can see that its a USB connected device as my other wacom penable tablets dont but when i forward it it shows up as a ISDv4 device which indicates it has serial but i managed to forward it as a USB device.

here is a info dump: http://pastebin.com/AKTYz2yf

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