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Author Topic: 22" & 12x19 build! -The Exotiq  (Read 57335 times)
Tanassi
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 09:15:42 PM »

hi,

you have a huge beautiful thing there!  Shocked
about the 4 pens recognized. i had something like you when i used the intuos A3 in my Vince-tiq project.
it may be dued to the fact that the pen (or any other pointing device) has a unique numerical code that it send to the tablet.
cause the interference of the monitor this code is sent erroneously and interpreted from the tablet as a new device, so the tablet automatically adds new devices when it recognize a new one.
nothing so bad, try to shield more the interference.
beautiful vertebrae, where did you find that profile? Smiley

bye... Vince
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metapharsical
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 03:43:30 AM »

Hey Vince!

It's an honor to have you back.
Now that there's (friendly) competition for big builds  Wink
Does this mean you're going to post in your build log Grin

Many people would like to know what happened with your LEDs and backlight slab...
Especially me... Roll Eyes
I really need to do something about pen reception/interference.
The more I shield, the less jitter I get, but the more my pen drops out of range/reception.  I'm grounding everything of course.
I think replacing the CCFLs with LEDs, changing to a thin backlight slab, and replacing power supply are the things to do...

I'm usually shooting for perfection when I'm creating something Cool Grin
It would be possible to fix all those things on the list, but everyone else who has done big builds (You, AmbiDextrose, Artmach1, am I forgetting anyone?)
has tried to conquer all these problems and left their builds stagnate. WHY???
With no answers to these problems, I'm just going to try to decide as quickly as possible, based on what information I can get from the forum and what testing I can accomplish, how to finish this build!!!
Curse the evil that manifests in the ether!!    Tongue
Quote
e·ther  (thr)
n.
1. Any of a class of organic compounds in which two hydrocarbon groups are linked by an oxygen atom.
2. A volatile, highly flammable liquid, C2H5OC2H5, derived from the distillation of ethyl alcohol with sulfuric acid and used as a reagent and solvent. It was formerly used as an anesthetic. Also called diethyl ether, ethyl ether.
3. The regions of space beyond the earth's atmosphere; the heavens.
4. The element believed in ancient and medieval civilizations to fill all space above the sphere of the moon and to compose the stars and planets.
5. Physics An all-pervading, infinitely elastic, massless medium formerly postulated as the medium of propagation of electromagnetic waves.

Anyways, to answer your post, I'm sure you're right about the multiple pens being an erroneous ID caused by interference.
And the profile of the vertebrae: I created by google-ing pictures of human spines and vertebrae then used that as a reference when I modeled the stand in Maya (3d software, very nice program wouldn't you agree switz?  Grin).  Then I brought the files into the shop I work at and translated them into code for the machine that cut them.

Here's the concept,    roughly 3 ft tall (90cm)  :   
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metapharsical
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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2008, 06:02:13 AM »

I did some more testing and have narrowed down my problems/solutions...

CCFL's gotta go. They cause pen drop-out and horrible interference along the top edge where the LCD driver is.


I will probably* order up a MAXIM LED driver eval board.  I've done some minor electronics projects before, so I can connect (+) and (-) in the right spots  Roll Eyes .  I'll go over AmbiDextrose's build with Ctrl+C at the ready...  Wink

Big question: I've read the thread about color gamut and LEDs and I'm wondering if people's (Vince  Huh)  LEDs were up to snuff?
I could look through DigiKey or Mouser (huge distributors of electronics bits) to find just the right LED if I knew exactly what I was looking for...
More research is needed...

AmbiDextrose's comments were VERY helpful in this thread...
http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1232.0

But what about diffusing the beams of light coming from all these individual LEDs?
I'm thinking: If I could find LEDs that had a wide focus beam, that would be the trick...
It's a shame that thread just ends with only half the answer to an LED conversion...


*first I'm going to try dissecting my CCFLs and removing the metal shielding from them.  I hope this does the trick (doubtful). Because I do like the even backlighting they provide.
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Drewid
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« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2008, 01:28:22 PM »

Got to be worth trying the dissection first. a couple of things to be aware of...

The tubes are the most fragile thing on the planet, and (at least on mine) the wires were held in rubbery "clips" with a split in them, so were not too hard to get out.
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metapharsical
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 12:21:34 AM »

Not really sure if this is worth an update, but I dissected the CCFLs and checked interference.

No real improvement...

And it only took about 10 seconds before the plastic ends  Huh started smoking.  Shocked
Without the metal to dissipate the heat these things get BLAZING hot! 

I'm surfing around for LED sidelighting solutions.
It would be great if I could find high brightness LEDs that didn't have that dome shape that makes them so narrowly focused...
It looks like they sell monitors/TVs that are able to get evenly dispersed light from LED sidelights, but It of course involves specially focused LEDs and a purpose built diffusion slab...   Sad

AmbiDextrose said he was generally satisfied with his LED conversion, and AndreZX's build with LEDs went well until he switz'd his monitor Wink
So I guess I'll be ordering up this if its available: http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/5476

All ideas welcome!
NO I don't want to try-my-luck with another monitor  Grin
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 04:17:11 AM by metapharsical » Logged
Drewid
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 01:44:47 PM »

I wonder if any LED screens are finding their way to the scrapheap yet.  Possibly look for a borken one in the ex-corporate dead kit type sellers on ebay or similar.  Maybe you have a tech recycling company nearby?
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metapharsical
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 11:27:43 PM »

Ok, I ordered that Maxim LED driver, but now I'm not so sure I really need it  Embarrassed

If I just buy one of those LED light strips like Dynam1c did for his build, I might be good.
EDIT:  Just ordered 4 of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230296398946
saved $ with my best offer! yippee only $80  Cry

I know of a custom PCB shop in my city that could probably mount a bunch of tiny Surface-Mount LEDs to a long board for a reasonable price.
But I'm still looking for a crap load of cheap, bright, Surface-Mount LEDs.
I'm lost on what specs I should be looking for...
luminous flux and wattage and there's white, white diffused, clear, water clear, the list goes on...
If AmbiDextrose's brain could just chime in... Tongue

I'll look on Ebay for one of those LED light strips since the Ebay links expired from Dynam1c's post.
EDIT: done and done!

Re: Drew
Yeah, I live in a big city so there are a some electronics recyclers.
Just called em last week trying to unload 8 CRTs and assorted PC rubbish, I'll give them a ring.
Anyone wanna trade half a dozen working CRTs for a broken LED LCD, hmm?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 12:25:39 AM by metapharsical » Logged
metapharsical
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2008, 02:48:57 AM »

Woot !

LED strips came in today!

Wired one up to a 12V DC wall adapter and placed the strip along the diffuser slab.
The brightness is fair with only one mounted.  I'll have to borrow my friend's camera again for pics...

I can press the strip up against the slab and I can get it to be pretty damn bright, but then the ugly dark stripes start showing between the LEDs.
I'm thinking that if I shoehorn the LED strip into the old CCFL rail, that will give the LEDs a little space for the light to bounce around and even out.
All I have to do is cut holes in along the back of the U-shaped CCFL enclosure where the LEDs can shine in...

So... work is ongoing to complete the case and stand  Roll Eyes

I've cut three more vertebrae pieces, now up to 7 out of 13
If I ditch this girl I'm suppose to go out with this weekend, I could get it finished  Roll Eyes  Cool
Ahh we're only young once...  Wink

Anyways, I'm also wrapping my head around how I'm gonna wrap this up into a case...
Plexiglass, Lexan, or ABS (any other suggestions?) would work, but I'd end up with something aesthetically displeasing I think.
All the edges would have to be square and such, I don't think it would match with the stand...

So my idea has been to use a rubbermaid tub lid as a fiberglass mold (just the lid would be fine, but NOTHING sticks to it, which coincidentally makes it great mold material  Grin )
All the curvy lines will make for a challenge.  There's nothing like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
But enough about my date this weekend...  Wink  Grin

I'll try and get some pictures up ASAP if she looks good.
MY tablet, NOT the girl    Tongue  Cheesy
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Drewid
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 07:57:37 PM »

What if there was a diffusing film/paper between the LEDs and the slab, would that help??


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metapharsical
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2008, 09:08:14 PM »

I haven't poked holes in the back of the CCFL enclosures, but I'm thinking this will yield the best results because I need to give the light a chance to spread out evenly.  Drew, I think sandwiching a thin piece of diffusing material is going to just block the light more than it will redirect it evenly...  Undecided
The best solution would work like a prism, where by the light is redistributed without losing intensity. I'm thinking to apply this idea, one could probably cut a long strip from a $10 Fresnal lens like this:
                                                 \/
[(((((((((((((((((0)))))))))))))))))))]   This would be the thickness of the backlight slab
                                                 /\
of course centering lenses over each LED would be the best, but infeasible...

[(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))(((0)))]

You can purchase tiny Fresnel lenses that are made to fit over LEDs, but they're ~$2 x 60 LEDs = $120, no thanks

If my 'LEDs through a CCFL diffuser' idea doesn't pan out, the single lens could be worth a try...
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metapharsical
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« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2008, 10:13:49 PM »

here's a case & stand update:

I cut three more vertebrae, just two left!

Spent a $H!T load of time on the case.
I went and bought a rubbermaid lid and tub. Don't need the tub, but they make you buy one to get the lid  Angry
Of course I failed to take into consideration during my measuring at the store that the screen-driver-board actually sticks out along the top past the tablet board.
This meant that I had to cut the lid in half and increase its height by 2.5 in (64mm)

That was just one of many little hurdles I had to overcome to engineer this mold, but I'm confident the results will be spectacular!
 Grin
So now I have the two halves spread apart, space filled in with pieces of 3mm acrylic sheet, and glued down to a big flat piece of wood.  All I need to do before I begin making fiberglass is to exactly locate on the mold where I'll need screws and posts in the final part so that I can reinforce those areas with extra fiberglass cloth.

Oh, I also went to a local picture framing shop and got some 2mm glass cut.
I bought a piece of this anti-reflective 'museum glass' , which wasn't cheap at $50.  Shocked
On the up side, they let me keep the piece of regular glass that they cut for a test fit for free  Cheesy
The difference is very visible! Rather I should say, in-visible: practically NO REFLECTION!!!
They let me hold up a piece of the museum glass in front of a monitor so I could check for unwanted discoloration or dimming and I didn't see much that would cause a problem.  Just a tiny-tiny-minuscule-hint of rose-ish tint.
The fit of the glass in the LCD's metal frame is perfect.  I'll be using some of the plastic and metal originally from the monitor to give me something to fasten the LCD to the case.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 12:37:43 AM by metapharsical » Logged
Drewid
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2008, 01:37:51 PM »

This is sounding _really_ exciting.
Another possibility for a diffuser. This is a brainfart, so I don't know how feasable it is.
Take a clear piece of plastic and scratch the surface vertically with a coarse sandpaper.      The vertical scratches ought to scatter the light horizontally in a random fashion without reflecting too much back. 
If there's too much in the way of microscratching then wave it over a hotplate for a few seconds.
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metapharsical
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2008, 03:19:49 AM »

Here's something that looks VERY promising :
http://www.luminitco.com/index.php/?item=hm

I sent them an email for a sample, hard to tell exactly what angle would be perfect, but this should do the trick!   Cool

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Drewid
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2008, 01:09:08 PM »

Very nice. I'll stick a link to that in the "useful links" section if they turn out to be good guys.
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metapharsical
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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2008, 03:26:24 AM »

So I received a reply from Luminitco.
They sent me an order-form for samples...  8.5" x 11" = $49  Shocked   Definitely a special order kinda company  Cry
Before I received the email I had a chance to call their office in California and speak to a sales engineer (how does one go about engineering sales?  Roll Eyes )
She didn't speak English as her first language (sounded Indian), but she bore with me.  She said that she could give me a one-time discount on the price of a 10"x10" sheet because she sympathized with my situation.
only.......  $100   Shocked Shocked Shocked
Well, apparently going price is $400, so yes technically, this is a steal of a deal.

OK,OK, so this stuff is just what I need, but do I need it that badly?
No doubt, I have plenty of screen rel estate to put up with the inch and half or so of dark strips at the edges.
But then again, thinking of the other people who could benefit from this solution, I think I could cough up the cash, and atleast rationalize the cost if even a half dozen people would be willing to pay like $10 for 2 slices of diffuser.
 (shipping would be negligible, since they're just thin strips of plastic...)

Roughly calculating :
Thickness of average backlight slab : 6mm or ~.25"
10" x 10" cut into .25" slices would make : 400 linear inches of 10"x.25" strips
or 8.5 x 11 cut into .25 slices would make : 374 linear inches of 11" x .25 strips
avg. monitor would need lets say 15"top  + 15"bottom


So, I could outfit about 10 monitors .  Assuming this stuff is as effective when cut and lined up next to another piece (kick me if my fingers aren't crossed)...

I doubt that many people are gonna come looking unless the supply of Dell 1503's dries up  Grin
If anyone else is following this, give me a PM if interested...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 04:42:12 AM by metapharsical » Logged
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