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Author Topic: Intuos3 A5 wide build... strange ratio. How would you proceed ?  (Read 34270 times)
Gwenouille
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« on: December 21, 2009, 01:15:17 AM »

Hi !

 I am new to this forum.
I have read quite a few topics by now, but couldn't find any successful build around an intuos3 A5 wide (the 6x11 one). I have this tablet and thought i could "tune" it. But the ratio is quite strange really...6x11 ?
In fact i like it a lot because i can map my 2 screens side by side without loosing much tablet space. I don't like huge tablets: i do small movements...

So my first thoughts were: i have to find a smaller screen than the tablet, and in panoramic format too. The netbooks seemed to offer what i wanted, like for instance WSVGA (1024x600) screens. But this LDVS (or whatever ) problem seems too big a hassle... I thought it would be easier to use laptop screens: wrong.

Next step: photo frames. OK but how do you feed a signal into that ?

latest step: http://www.amazon.com/MP-920XB-Widescreen-Monitor-XBox360-Xbox-360/dp/B000OE9E3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261352121&sr=8-1
Hehe. Grin
 That seems better: it is bound to have some kind of input from the XBOX (what sort ? ) so there has to be a way to convert VGA/DVI to it.
It is small enough and 800x480 might just be enough.

What do you think ?

If i go this way, I'd like not to fully destroy my wacom and set the screen as "removable".

BUT

There are downside if i do that:
 1st: 800x480 ? Hmmm just about the minimum really. I thought i could get away with 1200+ or so.
 2nd: I already have 2 monitors (24'' and 17''). Using this tiny thing as a second monitor would take the second slot of my Graphic Card, leaving the 17'' useless. Not optimum.

And let's talk about this 17'': I bought it 15£ a while ago: the backlight was dead. I managed to rescue it myself (changing some transistors) but the problem reappered. I finally ordered a repalcement inverter board for 30 more € and now it works very well. I can well imagine transforming it into a "Gwentiq" !
That would allow me to keep my Wacom safe (or re-sell it ?) for the 24'' monitor and keep using 2 well sized monitors (better 17'' and 24'' than 9'' and 24'' !)
But that means i have to buy a huge tablet to fit it in ? I have said before that i wasn't a lover of huge tablets... Well i would have to learn to love them !

Has anyone tried using a dell e172fp (I have to search for that on the forum) ?


What way would you choose ?
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cellofaan
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 11:13:53 AM »

Regarding the small tablet, I've put some thought into making one as well. Instead of an XBOX screen, you could also use a PSone screen, there are a lot of tutorials on how to connect those to a pc on the net.

An easier option would be a small monitor. Those are hard to come by. Digital photoframes are not really an option, as there's no (simple) way to connect them to a pc.
There are however, a few digital photoframes that double as a monitor. This one for example: http://www.gadgetvenue.com/samsung-spf800p-digital-photo-frame-12095833/
I think acer has one to.

They are quite expensive though.


The 17" screen might be a cheaper option. With some luck you could find a UD-1812 for cheap. With those you could actually have a 21" screen.
A problem I ran into with my hp L1820, is that the backlight slab is too thick. That might happen on a 17" as well.


You said you don't like big tablets. i don't either, when they're separate. It just doesn't work if you have to move your hand all over the place to get from the start button to the top right red to close a window.
However, when it has a screen on top of it, you tap the pen on the actual visual thing, so the feedback is completely different and everything goes much easier. So I wouldn't worry about making it too large.
I'd choose the safest route, which would be the 17" screen. So far, nobody has used an xbox screen or a digital photoframe, so there's not much knowledge around to help you. There are a couple of succesful 1812 projects, and taking a regular monitor apart has been covered here many many times. It'll be cheaper as well, if you don't break the screen.
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Gwenouille
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 01:58:29 PM »

Thamks !

I really like the photo Frame you mentionned ! It covers my A5 wide rather nicely.
This usb in could be really handy. The problem is the price: a little to high for me !
EDIT: errrr, another problem: these use usb for the video in. Not the graphic card.
I guess this could lead to awful performances and possibly the impossibility to map a wacom onto them.
What are your thoughts ?


Concerning the other possibility (using the 17 inches monitor and an A3 wacom): these big tablets are so expensive !
And using a very old one (like intuos 1) scares me because of the old drivers and serial connectors: apparently there are quite a lot of problems on Vista, not to mention 7...
And I won't buy an intuos 3 or 4 A3 just for that !

« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 12:05:08 AM by Gwenouille » Logged
Gwenouille
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 05:23:23 PM »

A little update

I took apart my 17'' to put it over the wacom and test for possible jitter.
The lcd display comes in a metal casing with the ccfl.
Just laying that over the wacom prevents the last to work and detect anything. It might well be down to the thickness: it is alomost as thin as 3 CD cases (the thin ones) on top of eachother : 14mm.

I wonder how you guys did...
I have to do some research here, but it doesn't look good.
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Patterick
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 01:25:49 AM »

The lcd display comes in a metal casing with the ccfl.


well that casing has to go Wink
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cellofaan
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 03:34:32 PM »

The casing indeed has to go. Everything metal will interfere with the wacom sensor.

I don't know if the usb-connection will be a problem for the mapping. I've never thought about that.
If I had to guess, I'd think it won't be a problem, as the mapping is done by the wacom drivers, and not the videocard drivers.
For the wacom, it only has to be recognised as a monitor by the computer.
And it is really expensive for such a small thing. That's the reason I stopped working on the idea.

I found my A3 wacom for 20 euros. It's an old one for sure, serial cable and all, but it works great.
The serial cable is a problem though. I bought a serial to usb converter, but the wacom drivers didn't recognise the new com-port.
Most (maybe all) Dell computers have a serial port, so I'm using it on a dell laptop now.
Vista is definitely a no go for a serial tablet. I don't know about windows 7.

If you put in some serious ebaying skills, you're bound to find a cheap usb-cabled Intuos2 or DigitizerII. Buying a second hand monitor could be the way to go as well.

One last thought. If yiu have an Nvidia graphics card, you could try NV-Keystone. It's some driver software which allows you t deform the screen image. Essentially it's meant to deform the image for a beamer which isn't aligned to the wall properly, but I suppose it should work on a normal second monitor as well. You could then use the 17" screen on your A5 intuos, and just scale the screen to the wacom.
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Gwenouille
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 01:42:15 AM »

Hi again !

Thanks for your feedback on the casing.

About the photo frame: yes, a bit too expensive for what it is, especially if one doesn't know how it'll work.
Wacom say it should be fine though (asked the support forum)...

Quote
I found my A3 wacom for 20 euros
Waw... nice !

But i don't like this serial cable thing, really... Yes, maybe an old usb intuos 2...

Thanks for the tip on this nVidia app ! I use an ATI card, but there might be something similar around ? That is an interesting idea.

Meanwhile I thought I could explore another way (but quite expensive)
I've started considering that this A5 wide is more or less 16:9ish. So I thought there MUST be some laptop screenwith displaying that ratio.
Bingo, there are plenty displaying a marvellous 1366x768. Now that would fit this wacom quite marvellously indeed !
Some are 11.6 " diagonal, and a few (I have found 2 only) are 12.1".  The 12.1 ones are PERFECT ! They don't fill the surface fully, but leave a border less than 1cm wide all around, which is perfect considering that the tft screen has a frame.
Moreover they use LED backlight, which I presume is thiner (?). Do you now something about interference and LED backlight ?

The trouble might well be this LVDS thing, but I found that :http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/108386765/LVDS_and_TTL_Driver_for_PC.html
I think that would do well to drive the signal from the PC and send it to the screen.

But then there are cables between all that stuff, and a power suplly for it all... Mmhhh I don't know...

It seems more expensive than the usual "17'' on UD1212" but it could well be even better !

I await your impressions and idea  !

See you soon !
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bernard
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 06:56:59 AM »

For the LVDS driver, there is a thread for that on the forum -- http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1455.msg9647#msg9647 -- people in china selling them for a good price. You have to know your LCD Panel brand and model number. Do not even think of buying any LVDS driver without knowing if your LCD Panel will work with it or not.
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bernard
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 07:38:56 AM »

LED LCDs:
I would "think" that the led is better for jitter. But that is just a feeling. The idea is that the CCFL uses high-voltage AC which, in itself, can be a source of interference. The led will also use one of two frequencies, but at a much lower voltage and thus probably will emit less.  Does led mean thinner?  I am not convinced. For large TV sets, it does mean thinner, but for already-thin laptop lcds -- it might not make much difference (CCFL and LEDS tend to both be "on the side" of the panel, the space is mostly taken by the diffuser which is at a small "angle".

Wacom models:
Note that more recent WACOMs have less options in their drivers. On such option is mapping multiple areas which is very nice when the LCD is bigger than the tablet. (there are some posts about this)

Photoframe:
...would most likely require a separate driver board (LVDS). All devices like these have a LCD Panel as its internal component.  Again, you have to know the brand name and model number of the LCD Panel to know if a LVDS driver can be found for it.  (this information is difficult to find - the company typically won't tell you -- it might even change from one revision to the next without apparent differences, you typically have to crack-open it to know).  In other words, unless this is a killer deal, forget it.

One thing I suspect is that smaller LCDs and LCDs inside devices that are not laptops are not "LVDS" and thus more difficult to find cheap drivers, but I have very limited knowledge -- One thread was about the Eee PC and this was a problem (I think it is called "TTL" instead of LVDS).  "TTL" (like LVDS) refers to an electronic "standard" for digital "signals" so devices can interconnect "physically" (i.e. so they don't blow up). (This is totally unrelated to LCDs, but LCDs are electronic devices and TTL was used to feed all the bits for the R,G,B signals). TTL was extremely popular in the beginning of micro-electronics.

Wacom Forum
You mentioned: by "Wacom say it should be fine though (asked the support forum)..."  -- I am curious: What did you asked on the Wacom support forum exactly?
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Gwenouille
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 12:30:38 PM »

Hi Bernard !

Thanks for your answer !

LVDS: OK, I have to read this thread right now. Have you had a look at the specs of the LVDS driver I linked to ? It seems to cover quite a large array of resolutions (1366x768 anyway), Both TTL and LVDS outputs etc, etc...
I might be wrong, but contrary to most LVDS drivers i stumbled upon on eBay, it seems to be able to drive different panels thanks to jumpers you position to define the resolution you want.
I am very tempted to buy one !

Older Wacoms: Hmmm... I don't want to fiddle with drivers too much. I don't like to think about how a 64 bit OS in 2012 will manage a serial-input device designed more then 10 years ago for instance... And because so many people decided to stay with Intuos 3 due to the nib-wear problem,I think Wacom will provide good support to them for a long time to come... Tht's why I'd better use a recent tablet. Besides the loss of area would be minimal if i choose such a 1366x768 panel.

LED LCDs: Yes, that sort of make sense concerning the jitter thing. OK for the thickness.One thing bothers me though: If my panel is LED-backlit, where do I plug the LEDs in ? There is no need for an inverter board, just for a stable DC 3.5V (i think it is a 3.5V drop for them) or so ?

Wacom Forum: well, I just asked if the driver would allow to map the tabled to a display that doesn't use the graphic card since it is USB. That is their answer:
Quote
If the graphics driver can handle it and Windows shows it as an extended display, the tablet driver should be able to map to it.
So I guess that's fine.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 08:31:08 PM by Gwenouille » Logged
Gwenouille
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 10:34:34 PM »

Arf... impossible to get a 12.1" 1366x768 display on eBay... I've tried hours and hours and I oculd only find some 11.6" ones, but just a few...
The 12.1 are used in the MSI wind u210/u200 and Asus UL20 and EEE1201N. Not a large market yet...

Grrr... They would be absolutely perfect for my wacom... OKOK half an inch isn't that big...

I am keeping up hunting !
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Gwenouille
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 08:01:05 PM »

So...

Not much happening over here it seems !?

I dare to re-ask a question i didn't get an answer for so far:
Quote
If my panel is LED-backlit, where do I plug the LEDs in ? There is no need for an inverter board, just for a stable DC 3.5V (i think it is a 3.5V drop for them) or so ?

I am seriously thinking of buying a 1366x768 11.6" display cause I can't find a12.1 one at all... There are PCs built with them but no luck to find one spare on the net... Do you have secret website to find them ?
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bernard
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2010, 07:10:55 PM »

The voltage and amperage requirements depends on many factors.   

The difficult part if to find the right voltage because for the amperage, you can just start with a high value (too high won't hurt, just more heat from the power supply).

Factors to consider:  The led component itself and the led arrangement (you are powering many leds) -- the resistors values (if any!).  Also, sometimes, the power is "pulsed" at a certain frequency (exact frequency does not really matter, but the ON/OFF pulsing ratio does -- this is called the "duty cycle" and is expressed in percentage -- 100% means always on, 75% means ON 3/4 of the time) to save on power consumption and heat.

If you have access to a working LCD, then you can measure the voltage while powered on with a voltmeter.
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GwenLP
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 02:11:12 PM »

Hi, Thank you Bernard.

I've experienced trouble to Log in with my name "Gwenouille". In fact it was absolutely impossible. I ve tried re-sending the password, re-sending the activation code, etc... No way. So I've opened a new account and GwenLP=Gwenouille.

I have also sent 2 mails to AgilentPixels to ask them about compatibility between their Controllers and the 1366x768 11.6" boards, but no response from them at all... It's been 2 weeks now, that 's disappointing and not much like making me do business with them...

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cellofaan
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 04:06:54 PM »

I had the same problem. Some accounts got lost. You could reregister with your original accountname.
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