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Author Topic: can anyone help with a pin to pin schematic of the Cintiq 15x usb lead  (Read 7029 times)
Puddlebrook
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« on: July 28, 2010, 11:17:42 PM »

Hi,
 
I had me 'puter nicked by some lowlife, they left my cintiq thinking it was some worthless old monitor (phew) but ripped out the leads. I have replaced the DVI lead but can't seem to get my hands on a replacement USB lead, no one in the world seems to stock it as the 15X is now deemed obsolete. Wacom are not much help and wont divulge their secrets.
 I have a suitable USB lead and a 4 pin mini din but I haven't the heart to start playing russian roulette with my tablet and new 'puter by guessing where the wires go or pulling it apart to trace the pcb tracks. Can anyone put me back on the road to e-drawing again, I find it so much harder and time consuming to create using the mouse or old analogue techniques. I had thought about shelling out some dosh on a plain tablet just to get me through until I chanced upon this site.

If anyone can help I would be very greatful.

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bernard
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 03:08:56 PM »

Not sure what you are talking about, I am looking at the 15x manual and it seems it contains a super-standard USB cable?  If your USB lead "fits", do not worry, it is not russian roulette, it will work fine.

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bernard
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 03:31:07 PM »

OK -- I think I understand, the connector is not a USB standard one, it is really a mini-din (a round -- 'S-Video' style).

How many pins are on that mini-din?  Because there are quite a lot of variants.  If I understand correctly, Wacom probably did this so the same connector is used for both the Serial and USB.  Do you still have the Serial cable around that came with it?

If your only option is to trash your Cintiq, then ... don't!  Open up the case and look for markings on the boards.  I have seen many Wacom products "from inside" and they very often put informative markings for these things.

Take a photo of the inner connector and surrounding/related markings on the boards. 
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Puddlebrook
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 10:20:50 PM »

Yes it is a four pin mini DIN (same as S-vid).


* cintiqUSBsocket.jpg (30.04 KB. 277x174 - viewed 1324 times.)


I haven't got the serial lead any more so that will be not possible - it is a different variant (nine pin mini DIN).

I will endeavour to take the back off the tablet and take some piccy's of it's innards and post them ASAP.

Thanks for your help so far.

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Puddlebrook
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 11:39:20 PM »

It was quite easy to take apart - so far.

These are the two sockets :- USB on the left and serial on the right.


* tic_internals1.png (44.87 KB. 358x316 - viewed 635 times.)


Pcb tracks from those sockets to connector.


* tic_internals2.png (127.02 KB. 856x310 - viewed 648 times.)


Wacom board with connector lead removed.


* tic_internals3.png (61.79 KB. 332x253 - viewed 388 times.)


Hope these are of help.

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bernard
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2010, 04:34:27 AM »

Nice photos -- I know how hard it is to take clear photos of PCBs (they reflect like hell).  Tongue

4 pin din -- ok that makes it easier:  USB is also 4 pins (not counting the frame/shield ground which is simply the metallic stuff around the connector and the shielding inside the cable -- which the mini DIN also have). 

The four USB signals are:

pin1: POWER (VCC +5v)
pin2: Data- or D-
pin3: Data+ or D+
pin4: GND (Ground)

see the picture in for the proper mapping:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus

First, the ground.  I bet the ground is the "lower" pin in the second picture where you see the 4 traces going across the PCB -- why?  because these tends to be connected to everything. And (I do not see clearly in the photo) but it looks like it is connected two times to a "via" near the middle.

That long white FFC cable is going somewhere, but I do not see where.  Are there any markings around there?  Look carefully everywhere. 

One thing to note here is that the "usb power" might not be required since your device already has power -- besides when the serial port is used, there is no power coming from the serial port. So the idea here is to not connect the usb power -- only the 2 data signals and the ground.  Since the power is not originating from the Wacom on the USB port, this should minimize the danger *if* you misconnect something. It might not work without the power because there is a remote chance the Wacom uses the power line as a "trigger" to "enable" the USB communication (but chances should be slim because it wouldn't be very reliable I think).

Now I need to ask: do you have a multimeter and basic soldering equipment?
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bernard
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2010, 05:37:44 AM »

As a first hypothetical "mapping" we can try to use the same "pin numbers" from the mini din and the usb connector. When electronic designers do their stuff they like to pick "clear" choices (clear on paper).  So matching pin numbers seems like a "straight-through" solution for a cable -- it is easier to specify when sending specs to cable manufacturers.

So the DIN pin numbers seems to be as follow:

(source) http://pinouts.ru/Home/SVideo_pinout.shtml (I checked other sources too)


4 pin mini-DIN female connector on the Wacom



4 pin mini-DIN male connector on the cable

If you try to match that ground line -- does it match if we put it on pin 4 on the mini DIN ?
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bernard
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2010, 06:28:56 AM »

What I hope here is that if you can follow the traces (or better use a multimeter -- one that can beep when the probes are connecting -- they almost all do that) and follow the trace to a standard USB controller chip, then we would be in a position to find the datasheet of that chip and instantly get the right pinout.

Edit: popular USB controllers chips are made by "Cypress". (part numbers starting with the letters "CY") -- I see an "analog device" chip on the "lower board" (I recognize the brand, but cannot read the markings). I see another square chip under the wires too, can't read anything either from the photos.

I am reading on USB Data- and Data+ voltages levels to see if there is a potential of "harm" if connected in reverse -- (because this is going to be the hardest part to figure out just by looking at the PCB boards - I mean, if we cannot find a standard chip at the other end of the wires). I saw somewhere 3.6v on the Data+ max and 0.3v on the Data- max. This is a duplex scheme so sometimes the PC is applying power and sometimes the peripheral is applying power. It is a bit hard to follow the specification I must say because of all the USB modes and possibilities.

One other idea: Get your hands on the cheapest USB hub you can find and use that instead of connecting directly to your new shiny PC -- it should protect it somehow. If the hub is powered, the usb power pin will probably be isolated from the PC.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 06:59:47 AM by bernard » Logged
Puddlebrook
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 07:47:23 PM »

Traced pins from mini-din to connector

Pin
1     pin 14 on connector
2     pin 16
3     pin 15
4     pin 17 (ground - you were right Bernard)

Off to the shops tomorrow to get a decent multitester as the continuity tester I used has probes the size of a bulls foot - not good for twiddling about on circut boards.

I found the cypress chip CY7C63101A and have the data sheet - I am well on my way to trace where it's pins 15,16,14 and 9 correspond to 15 through 17 on the FFC connector and then wire up the usb cable and Bob's your uncle I'm back in business.

I presume this is the Wacom pen tablet circuit board?


* tic_internals4.png (204.87 KB. 546x497 - viewed 430 times.)


For someone who has never had the heart to even consider tracing back through circuits (see first post), I found it quite enjoyable - I might take this further and try mending other bosted electronic bits I have. Shame I already have a Cintiq - reading through the posts it looks real fun building one from bits.

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bernard
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 09:48:55 AM »

Aha!  the Cypress guess was good!  Grin

You can see the two big WACOM ICs in the middle -- this is definitely a Wacom board. All the little chips at the bottom are most probably there to "address" all the rows and columns of the sensor. 

Triple check your connections before applying any power or connecting anything.  Really, re-re-re-check.

Do not forget to tell us if it works (and the resulting mapping!!)

btw -- the lines might not "connect" directly (hopefully they are and you are done) -- In anyway, it should be quite close I guess.  If you cannot find a match, one way to know is to find what they call "AppNotes" (Application Notes) -- these are informal "reference designs" on "how to use the parts" -- so you could see if there is a capacitor, resistor or some other weird stuff between the USB port lines and the Cypress chip and you might be able to find the similar circuit on the board.  Hopefully you are not going to need to do that. Tongue
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bernard
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 09:54:48 AM »

To build a DIY Cintiq is quite fun indeed, but challenging too: it does not always work. (LCD breakage, jitter issues) and some did throw a lot of money in it.
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bernard
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 05:32:38 AM »

To the readers of this thread - FYI: another member got the same problem afterwards.  Using the information above (e.g. following the Cypress chip) was successful, althought it was more convoluted than having the mapping available obviously.

So, if someone else ever need it, the final pinout mapping for the cable can be found in the thread :

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1781.msg12768#msg12768
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 09:00:14 AM by bernard » Logged
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