Bongofish
November 20, 2018, 01:50:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: You can attach photos hosted by the forum rather than using an external image hosting site, this means they will stay forever and not disappear after a year or two.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Shan'Tiq v0 (serial tablet on win7)  (Read 14748 times)
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« on: August 27, 2010, 01:56:08 PM »

Hello everyone, here I will talk about my first attempt to build a DIY Cintiq.

Components :
- Intuos2 A4+ 12x12 : eBay 80€+17€ shipping

- Serial to USB adapter : eBay 5€, no shipping
- Monitor : see below
- Accessories : nothing yet
- Casing : not yet chosen

Cost so far : 102€


Monitor Choice :

I have a few options at hand. I fetched a Philips 170S5 at work; which spec's are :
• 17" 5:4 / 13.27 x 10.62 in
• Pixels : 0,264 mm
• Brightness: 250 cd/m2
• Contrast : 450:1
• 16 ms
• 1280 x 1024 @ 75 Hz
• INTERNAL PSU

The internal PSU could be an issue here, I'll check the inside after the jitter tests.

I can also buy a Dell 1503FP for about 50€. Spec reminder :
• 15" 4:3 / 11.97 x 8.98 in
• Pixels : 0,297 mm
• Brightness: 200cd/m2
• Contrast : 300:1
• ?? ms
• 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz
• EXTERNAL PSU

A classic, a bit lower specs but has been confirmed to work and have an external PSU.

I have a friend sending me a used laptop I can break into pieces, so a possible screen here as well, to be confirmed in the next couple days.

I spotted a monitor dumped in the street this morning, will check if it's still there when going home tonight

Pictures incoming...

TODO :
• testing the Philips screen for jitter
• confirm the laptop screen
• find a Dremel to borrow
• &c.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 10:16:04 PM by tirshea » Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2590


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2010, 08:06:09 AM »

beware that serial wacom are not supported with recent Windows operating systems.  Even with a Serial to USB adapter (btw, you have to pick a brand that is known to work with Wacoms -- some of them do some sort of buffering which breaks the wacom protocol)
Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 11:11:43 AM »

I'll try my best making it work on my PC, otherwise I can put it on my "old" laptop which can still run photoshop so it should be fine

As for the usb adapter, I didnt know I needed a special one. Let's hope I got lucky. If not, I only waster 5€ so it's no big deal

Anyway, can you point me to where I can find the 'working with wacom' usb adapter list ??
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 05:46:44 PM by tirshea » Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 07:09:20 PM »

After more and more web crawling, I finally got it to work, here is what I did :

  • Grab an OLD version of the drivers
  • And a NEW one. Note that this is NOT the latest version, which is intended.
  • Uninstall any remaining wacom drivers you have or this won't work, reboot as well.
  • Plug the Serial-to-USB adapter, install its drivers, check in the Device Manager that it is working and had its COM port number assigned, note it down
  • At this point my Wacom XD-1212-R was detected by Win7, but had the usual yellow warning / ! \, meaning it needed drivers
  • Install the NEW Wacom drivers, tablet still jad the warning sign in the Device Manager
  • Unzip the OLD drivers (yes it is a .exe but just a self-extracting ZIP) somewhere handy
  • In the Device Manager, click on the Tablet and "Update Driver", click through to specify a driver location, then browse to where you unzipped the old driver
  • Use the ".\WacomTablet_493-3\System32\Drivers\wtablet.inf" driver file, warning sign is gone \o/  but the tablet still wont work...
  • Now the trick, a registry tweak : Use Regedit and go to \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Tablet". If the "Tablet" key doesn't exist, create it.
  • In the \Tablet, create a value just like the screenshot, named "PnPTablets" with a value of ",COM?" where the ? is your serial-to-usb adapter COM port number you noted earlier
  • Here I needed a last reboot


When Win7 finished rebooting, I had a fully working serial Intuos2 XD-1212-R, with pen pressure, angle and everything. The Wacom control panel is fully operationnal as well.

So YES we can ! use a serial tablet on Win7. I'm using the x32 version but I have read feedback saying it works just the same on x64.

I will also test the monitor I have for the infamous jitter test Smiley

Screenshots to help :

My Serial-USB adapter is a Channel+ brand, part number is U232-P9


Wacom Control Panel (in french)


Registry tweak, note that the Tablet key is indeed different from the Wacom key

« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 10:17:45 PM by tirshea » Logged
cellofaan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 240


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 10:59:36 AM »

You are KING!
Someone should link this in the useful links forum, or create a special topic for it.
Logged
Wilcorp70
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 63


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 11:53:37 PM »

@Bernard, Do you think that this trick could be used to help with the driver issues interfacing the tablet pc digitizer?  I know this is a different kind of port, but hacking the registry to read that there is a tablet there and then giving it the address might get the computer to install the tablet pc drivers.  Just a thought, and it couldn't hurt to try it.

~Will
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2590


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 01:28:44 AM »

Great job tirshea!  Smiley

Sounds like a breakthrough. Well, that registry trick was a known one but your driver update trick is quite a gem! Smiley  Thanks for putting all that time in finding out the magic recipe.

I personally still have my doubts with Windows 64 bits - which would be the killer solution. I will surely try it myself.

Would have to check what is so different between the driver files that makes the magic (INF files are just text files). Why did you not intentionaly use the most recent driver again?

-----------

For the tabletPC:

It might be possible to use those drivers with the tabletPC Wacom sensors - would have to try it. Your trick could help there greatly.

We did not find the magic recipe to install the tabletPC drivers, UnderSampled seems to say that the installers (and potentially the driver code) looks for "ACPI" devices with a special id. (ACPI = devices on the motherboard).  (I wonder if there might be ways to trick that ACPI list to add a "virtual" serial port. Anyway, that discussion should go into the other thread that talks about it.) If we find a way, we might be able to use the TabletPC drivers with Ultrapads.
Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 09:18:51 AM »

I originally found someone talking about installing the old drivers, copy somewhere a file that was installed, then uninstall the whole thing. Then install last drivers (6.05-7 at the time) and replace a file with the file you saved earlier, or something like that, which didn't work on Win7.

Then I found this registry thing but it didn't work after installing the latest version, I thought "why not try with that 6.05-7 version" and for some mystical reason it worked.

Now I am facing an unexpected issue : after rebooting the PC, the tablet stopped working. But it came back after uninstalling/reinstalling the 6.05-7 drivers...

I am quite puzzled about this, any ideas ?

I have tried rebooting a few times, always the same un-re-install is needed. It is working smoothly afterwards though...


Regardless, I moved on to the monitor stripping step:

I had this Philips 170S5, which will be the first try.


The grey plastic was removed easily, showing the button line, easily disconnected thus should be easily put to use later.


Back view


Zoom on the ID


Removed the back plastic and alu to unveil the PSU in brown and the VGA controller in green


We can see that under the PCB is another shielding, which I removed to finally get access to the screen and light diffusion.



The only problem would be the light diffusion board which is a whopping 8mm thick O.O

I tried putting in + the screen on the tablet and it worked, now I need to manage to plug everything for a live test...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 09:42:00 AM by tirshea » Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 01:00:40 PM »

Post-stripping screen test : it's still working !



Image flickers a bit but it should be because of unstable connection due to somewhat chaotic setup Cheesy

I should be able to put both the PSU and the VGA controller under the sensor board with proper shielding. Might even reuse the screen casing for those.

1 hour later...

Here is what it leads to :

I've put the PSU and the VGA controller back in their casing, everything on top. Checked the connections, image is now stable. There is little to no jitter at all so far.

Of course if I want to be able to fold the header/column cables behind the sensor board, the screen has to be in the corner for now.

Which leads to the next issue:


What you see is the position difference between the pen and the cursor. the bottom right of a line is where the pen is, top left is where the cursor shows.

Since the screen is the the top left corner of the sensor board, it makes sense that there is a difference.

But depending on where the pen is, the difference varies. I think it is because of the resolution differences between the screen and the tablet, but I need tips on this one.

Now that I think about it, it could also come from the sensor mapping in the Wacom control panel. It would work better if the screen was better positionned on the sensor boards, which can only be achieved by getting longer cables, what do you all think ?

Side view :


Bottom view :


« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 02:08:27 PM by tirshea » Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2590


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 03:01:08 AM »

The difference is varying, but consistently on the X and Y axis. Which is expected since you do not seem to have done any mapping.  You need to do a precise mapping between the screen and the tablet. This is a must for virtually all builds (unless the active area perfectly match the LCD screen).
Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 10:32:45 AM »

So the next step would be to order longer cables in order to be able to better position the screen on the sensor board, then work a bit on the mapping.

I know DIY Beamer is selling the FFCs I need. Just want to be sure before I order.
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2590


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 01:55:48 PM »

If the lcd screen is covered entirely by the sensor active area, then you do not need to physically reposition the screen (would be for cosmetic reasons only) (?)
Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 02:52:07 PM »

well, as it is, the screen is not covered by the sensor board since I had to position it in the top left corner to fold the column/lines controllers.

So it has roughly 4 to 5 cm on left and on top which aren't covered.
Logged
tirshea
New Poster
*
Posts: 28


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 09:46:31 AM »

Update : Ordered on DIY-Beamer the two FFC I need, 1 x 30pin 1.0mm pitch and 1 x 30pin 0.5mm pitch

Nothing more to do now until they arrive...
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2590


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 03:15:56 PM »

You only needed new cables or did you also need the little "PCB" with the connectors on it to "extend" the cable?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!