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Author Topic: tablet size vs monitor size.  (Read 37400 times)
Ueki
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2011, 06:23:57 PM »

I couldn't find any good screens in an appropriate size either. 10.0 and 8.9 seem to be mislabeled a lot. Since it's your first cintiq type build, maybe you should worry about the resolution instead of size (since bernard gave you an option if reaching every edge is a big deal). 10.1" screens can be found with pretty good resolutions. The matte are average $20 with shipping more expensive, but you probably don't want glare in your eye when drawing.

I'm building mine for (mostly) the same reasons ~ beside the fact it's fun ^_^
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 06:27:59 PM by Ueki » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2011, 06:29:05 PM »

Yeah-- I meant either you give up on edges or you shutoff this area of the screen (leave black) using tools on the host. But you could even think that a 15 inches would work -- just that the final product "case" will be somewhat "large" with a "small" 6x8 window in the middle.
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Chocochan
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2011, 06:40:07 PM »


Thanks for that SiliconeClone, but I *think* the resolution for that one is really low and I can't find ANY info about it on the net at all. IIRC the resolution was like 640 x 480 (though I could be wrong). I need a MINIMUM of 1024 x 768 to run Sketchbook Pro PROPERLY. Besides I'm kinda wary of purchasing a screen from overseas. Tablets are fairly tough, but a LCD screen...

Note: Actually that one is the ONLY 9.6" one on eBay and I think the internet (just googled 9.6" lcd screen). Can't find anything else. It seems to go straight to down 8.9" for smaller and that is a big loss of active area.

Bernard, I kinda want to avoid having to deal with sorting out a bigger screen if I can help it. Besides, it means I have to deal with getting it all to fit and making the whole thing probably bigger than I'd like. At least with a smaller screen there may be a small chance of getting it to fit perfectly into the Wacom case without having to move stuff TOO much. Not dismissing other options, I just already thought of them beforehand and figured something close to fitting right with the minimum of what I needed in resolution would be good enough to live with.

While most people want a DIY Cintiq of their own for art, they also seem to desire the challenge of building a better one and continue to do so. Like I said before, I'm only after building one to suit my needs and live with it, so I'm trying to get it right first time. Sorry if I sound stubborn, but I seriously don't have the money to just build one to see IF it works and then buy more parts to improve on it (and with a horrible screen I would seriously NEED to). I'm not asking for the best or even the impossible. Just something close to what I want. A compact Cintiq with a screen size I'm happy with and more importantly within my budget. I wish this idea was around years ago when maybe more 10" 4:3 screens were available. But I probably never even knew who Wacom are or even what a tablet is, so...
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Ueki
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2011, 06:46:40 PM »

Please, I just want something that I can draw on right now, this instant, as soon as I can assemble (something most who stalk the board without registering/posting probably feel).

This WILL work, many people have successfully done it. We're just talking about taking a screen, attaching it to a controller and computer, sticking it on top of intuos3, and doodling. Everything else is details.

Unless you're planning to open up the wacom, then you have to worry a little more about the inner workings. Are you trying to keep the whole unit inside the wacom case or are going to make an exterior housing (or use duct tape)?


« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 06:50:24 PM by Ueki » Logged
Ueki
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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2011, 06:52:40 PM »

Sorry, I missed the part about keeping it the case (my bad, stupid speed reading  Roll Eyes). A 10.1" screen is 1/4" bigger than the active area, so it should still work fine. The screen I'm trying is wsvga 1024x600 (from looking around, that seems to be the average in 10.1"), and displays with enough detail for my purposes.

Just curious, is there a specific reason you want to keep the whole project inside the wacom case? I only ask because, if you're that worried about getting things exact, you could try doing something similar to the dontiq (where the tablet is left intact).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 07:23:00 PM by Ueki » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2011, 07:24:51 PM »

You said that you needed 1024x768 at minimum (an important information I did not know while I was trying to answer you before), but, then you opt for a 6x8 tablet (without looking for a screen or even asking anybody their opinion). 1024x768 is not exactly called "low resolution" for a 10 inch (non-widescreen) screen.  The small screens that are 4:3 are typically old and 800x600. 1024x768 was the higher-end 14-15 inches. Only the more recent laptops are higher-res (still difficult to find if you just go to futureshop today and have a look!!). But more recent laptops are also widescreen.

Maybe you could find a "recent" widescreen panel that has near-768 lines and a matching "height".  It would of course have unused space on the sides.  Do not forget that a 6x8 tablet is not physically 6x8 -- it is much more. There is often a 1.5 to 3 inches border. What is the case size of the one you ordered?

Althought it is often simple, sometimes it is not (thinking about jitter here for one).

Why not get a Cintiq 12WX - this is a nice form factor (for a small-ish style) on ebay -- maybe you can get away with 600$ price. Be sure to snipe! These will work minus the "fun" to build it.  The general rule is: The lower budget, the more risks, the more work.  There might be other "non-wacom" products that could fit what you want with a better price. (hanvon)  In particular, tabletPC sensors tend to be on the small side and would typically work better with smaller screens.

BTW, getting a screen overseas is not a problem. All LCDs you can think of were manufactured "overseas".  Sending a package in the same city is not much different in terms of handling than going on a plane or a boat. The problem is not the oversea travelling, it is how it is packaged.

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Ueki
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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2011, 07:43:25 PM »

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BTW, getting a screen overseas is not a problem. All LCDs you can think of were manufactured "overseas".  Sending a package in the same city is not much different in terms of handling than going on a plane or a boat. The problem is not the oversea travelling, it is how it is packaged.

Even by the slowest method (2 months by ocean) I've never had my delicates break.  The one exception happened when something was opened by customs (random checking because it was the cheapest option) and the packaging was removed, then dropped/broken several states over *facepalm*.

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maybe you can get away with 600$ price.

Dang it, Bernard ~ do you have mad shopping on top of soldering skills!? In all my time looking, I couldn't find one below $800 range. I know it's possible (saw an old one go for $450 once) but I have not personally found one.
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bernard
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« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2011, 07:55:32 PM »

LOL, yeah I never bought a Cintiq 12WX myself. I just check them every now and then. I stand corrected, true that 800$-900$ is closer to the norm (which I think is overkill since you do not get the warranty when buying a new one at 1000$).

This site (forum.bongofish) exists because there is simply no mid-cost and low-cost offering. TabletPCs are common but not the tablets alone. Look at the prices of LCD monitors and looking at how wacom sensors are built, there is no exotic materials, (just a lot of patents). If it wasn't for patents, one could decide to manufacture a Cintiq 21UX for 100$.
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Chocochan
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« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2011, 08:08:16 PM »

Hello!
I has a little Question.
Which Monitor Size ist the best for an Intuos3 A5 Wide (or normal A5)?


So, anyone know of a perfect LED backlit screen that fits a 6x8 active area perfectly, but doesn't look like crap and will still allow me to use Sketchbook Pro (I think the minimum is 1024 x768, but higher would be nicer!)?

That was from my very first post in this thread. I mentioned the minimum already. You even answered my question and educated me in screen ratios. I was prepared to look for a 1024 x 768 screen as that actually is the most common resolution today for a good number of 10" screens and the lowest I could go with the software I want to use. What I don't get is that you said it was 4:3 and yet all the screens with that resolution are long and thin like widescreen ones? I chose a 6 x 8 tablet (again the first thing I mentioned in my FIRST post) because I don't have the space for a larger tablet (seriously). As for overseas purchasing, it's different if you're a company importing stock. You CAN afford a courier that can get it quickly and safely to you. I can't. Even if a screen is perfectly packed, there's no guarantee the postal services are going to handle it with kid gloves. At least IF damage was to happen (God forbid), if it's in the same city or even country, I have a better chance of get a replacement quickly and easily. I'm talking from experience here. Some things I WILL import, no questions, but there are some things where even I draw the line. And believe me, I love the currency rate advantage and the fact the US has a crap load more stuff that us in Europe would kill for (not literally of course!).

As for the size of the tablet casing itself you can check out the specs here:

http://www.tablet4u.co.uk/product/en/intuos3-a5-usb-tablet.html

This is a very useful site on Wacom tablets and it was here where I decided to go for the A5 one. I wanted something easy to hold and I liked the size active and inactive. The A4 one seemed too big to me. Might help people check out the specs on all the versions of Wacom tablets that ever existed before searching for a tablet. They sell some stuff, but are far too pricey for me! I also thought that if the screen was restricted to the lighter grey "active area", I would have a bit more room around it to shove in the controller board, inverter (unless I manage to find a way to get an easy to use LED backlit screen) and cables, then seal it all without having to widen the case somewhat.

Sorry, I missed the part about keeping it the case (my bad, stupid speed reading  Roll Eyes). A 10.1" screen is 1/4" bigger than the active area, so it should still work fine. The screen I'm trying is wsvga 1024x600 (from looking around, that seems to be the average in 10.1"), and displays with enough detail for my purposes.

Just curious, is there a specific reason you want to keep the whole project inside the wacom case? I only ask because, if you're that worried about getting things exact, you could try doing something similar to the dontiq (where the tablet is left intact).

Neatness really. I sculpt, mould and cast my own figures and stuff and am currently working to create my own stop motion animation puppets, so I pay a lot of attention to detail. I have knowledge and experience with resins (polyurethane and epoxy) as well as silicone rubbers (platinum and tin), so if possible I was going to slightly modify the original case and possibly re-cast it in a different material and nicer colour scheme. I just like things to look professional if it is within my power. I was also prepared to build a case from scratch, essentially cutting and shaping the original case and making a mould of it for a new case. Having it all fit would just be dandy and look better. Smiley
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 08:10:00 PM by Chocochan » Logged
Ueki
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« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2011, 08:19:54 PM »

768x1024 is a little odd of a resolution(at least around here), few monitors that I saw use it for their native specification. Most of the 10.1" (and others) that list it are actually misrepresented. A newer led screen is sharp already, maybe you should change the "768" part of your requirement. Go a little lower or higher, but check the actual inch or cm measurements.

If your going to modify for your own artistic purposes anyway, it's even easier to use an alternate size screen. You could even leave the wacom case intact and build you ideal around it. Just take into account the necessary space for the controller, wires leading out of the case, and depth of the screen.

Focus on the details of your ideal screen then look for those in a .1-2 bigger/smaller form.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 08:24:47 PM by Ueki » Logged
Chocochan
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« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2011, 08:21:41 PM »


Why not get a Cintiq 12WX - this is a nice form factor (for a small-ish style) on ebay -- maybe you can get away with 600$ price.

Lol, I just noticed this... Bernard, Bernard, Bernard. If I seriously had the money to even get a second-hand one, do you think I would even be posting here? Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses? Roll Eyes
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Ueki
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« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2011, 08:28:42 PM »

I'm more of the mind of "if I had that kind of spare cash in hand, I would want ____ more", ____ when talking about electronics would be a really good computer. Which is easier to find at that price, at least the parts, just because used cintiqs are too freaking rare.
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Chocochan
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« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2011, 08:44:55 PM »

768x1024 is a little odd of a resolution(at least around here), few monitors that I saw use it for their native specification. Most of the 10.1" (and others) that list it are actually misrepresented. A newer led screen is sharp already, maybe you should change the "768" part of your requirement. Go a little lower or higher, but check the actual inch or cm measurements.

If your going to modify for your own artistic purposes anyway, it's even easier to use an alternate size screen. You could even leave the wacom case intact and build you ideal around it. Just take into account the necessary space for the controller, wires leading out of the case, and depth of the screen.

Focus on the details of your ideal screen then look for those in a .1-2 bigger/smaller form.

My first choice for resolution was 1280 x 800 as I was trying to build an equivalent to the real Cintiq. And it's a "proper" resolution that my graphics card happily supports. But I didn't want any dead areas on the screen. Maybe there might not be if I knew the "true" active area size? Is it really 6 x 8, just because the light grey area is there? I still don't want to use Powerstrip to alter anything. I already have a lot of intensive CPU use software as it is. I want to use my DIY Cintiq to edit the frames of my animations (erasing jumping/flying rigs, adding special effects, etc.). I guess truthfully what I'm trying to say is that I want to build something that "looks" commercial. Having had a lot of disappointments in my life, achieving something that would actually be of great use to me would certainly make me think my life is at the very least worthwhile.

I wanted to try and rival the 12WX, but add my own style to it. Not to show off, but rather just to prove to myself that I can do anything if I really put my mind to it. I've never been good learning about delicate electronics like this, so to build something that is the equivalent of something worth a lot more would be a great achievement for me. If it was my world, there would be lower cost Cintiqs that are thin like slate tablet PCs (or even thinner) with all the functionality of an Intuos 3 or 4 and a screen with great viewing angles. I suppose I wanted to make something slim and nice that feels like you're drawing on a pad of paper, just so I can still feel the way I do when I draw "traditionally". Technology has come so far that I find it hard that this hasn't been done. I thought I could at least get close enough for my standards if I tried.

I was really disappointed when finding a screen would be the worst of my problems. It was like I failed before I even tried. Maybe I am asking for too much. Sad  
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Chocochan
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« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2011, 08:52:23 PM »

I'm more of the mind of "if I had that kind of spare cash in hand, I would want ____ more", ____ when talking about electronics would be a really good computer. Which is easier to find at that price, at least the parts, just because used cintiqs are too freaking rare.

There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?
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bernard
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« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2011, 09:18:13 PM »

Quote
Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses?
Cheesy Cheesy

But seriously, can you risk this? Please understand that you can easily put 100-200$ on a LCD Panel and it can become garbage a few days later.   Look at what happened 3 hours ago to this gentlemen: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1859.msg14252#msg14252

Did you read about jitter?



1024x768 is 4:3 (like your 6x8 tablet) -  (do the math yourself: divide by 256 in this case). The exact  active area of the tablet is 6.0 by 8.0 -- sometimes wacom tablets have a bigger active area than advertised but that is just because there is some macro buttons at the top, so that does not really count -- unless we find a way to use the area instead of the buttons.

I do not understand -- are you saying that most 10 inches are 1024x768 ?



Sorry chocochan - I retract what I said if it was wrong. Embarrassed I probably forgot or mixed with somebody else. I "multitask" a lot on this site (I am of the male-type gender, and they are usually pretty bad at it).

The original intent is to help here.



They way I see building the really dirt-cheap DIY cintiqs is a process driven by "opportunity". You cannot design and then get parts, it is the reverse, you get parts and then you design around it. It is like walking in a scrap yard to find 2 pieces that would somehow fit together (screen and tablet in our case). And until you see one is working good on top of the other in front of your eyes, you will never know if it will work.

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