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Author Topic: tablet size vs monitor size.  (Read 40364 times)
Ueki
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« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2011, 09:24:57 PM »

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There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?

Those are generally actual retailers, or people who buy them on consignment to make a profit. Even with the 0.99 start bid they usually finish close to the actual worth and aren't worth looking at for a bargain hunter. By rare, I mean an honest-to-goodness used cintiq. People generally don't give these things up. When the do it's because they need quick cash on a large ticket item, they've upgraded to larger unit, it's 20 years old, etc. Just like anything else, it rarely has to do with  product flaw.


If you have the skills to work with resin and similar material, you personally have the ability to make a professional finished product ~ just make sure you leave an access point in case, say 5 years from now, a normal wear and tear type of situation occurs (lcds can burn out in normal uses too) . I'm working on my own intuos3 6x8 project with a 10.1" screen, so I can check any measurements if that will help. The intuos3 is as thick as a relatively thin notebook, so adding a 5.5mm screen and little amount of resin won't be that different from what your describing. Just put the wires and control on the side of the intuos inside your resin case. Or carefully arange things inside the wacom case if that's your route.

Getting upset over an lcd you haven't bought yet isn't the worse you can come across in this project. We're talking about live wires and delicate crystal displays, dangerous stuff if you're not careful (ask anyone on the forum). But you'll be fine as long as you apply some basic problem solving and thorough research before any purchases,

Bernard is just trying to warn you of the risks we all assume with a  do-it-yourself, things break, people get shocked, etc resulting in extra cash and time (and occasionally band aids). But your working on a smaller than normal project, whose items are relatively cheaper. Depending on your choice, a 10.1" shouldn't run more than $70, any where from $25-$65 with shipping.

I don't have the time/patience/contacts (I get old phones from people instead of laptops with salvageable screens) to make a dirt cheap one myself, just as cheap as I can with the quality I want.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 09:51:36 PM by Ueki » Logged
Chocochan
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« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2011, 10:17:07 PM »

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Besides I think it's pretty boring and dull looking anyway. No no, I want to make something unique to me. Something vibrant. Why should I settle for the tools of the masses?
Cheesy Cheesy

But seriously, can you risk this? Please understand that you can easily put 100-200$ on a LCD Panel and it can become garbage a few days later.   Look at what happened 3 hours ago to this gentlemen: http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1859.msg14252#msg14252

I WON'T be spending THAT much on an LCD. They are seriously not that expensive. Maybe certain models and brands are, but a lot are very cheap if you're going for a laptop one. For example, the one on Ueki's build I can get for around £40 brand new with FREE shipping. If people choose to use an expensive screen on a project that has its risks, that's their business.

Did you read about jitter?

Naturally. That was the first thing I thought about when I decided to try this. I was swayed by the awesomeness of the K-Jintiq and wanted to do something similar but on a smaller scale. I hoped to improve on it by using the iPad screen since it wouldn't require and inverter (LED backlit), was an IPS panel (for great viewing angles) and fit the minimum requirement for resolution (1024 x 768). Oh and it was just a *bit* smaller, so I wouldn't have to worry about losing too much active area or not having areas covered. I still haven't given up on it. Something just tells me to keep searching for a solution.

The big thing I always thought about was this. Maybe if builds used screens that were originally used by manufacturers to go in front of touch screen or Wacom digitisers. I know that the frequencies may not be the same, but what if it was as simple as that? I saw a tablet PC screen for sale that has a Wacom digitiser on the back for £30. What if that particular screen was used because its frequency was suitable for running along the Wacom digitiser's frequency? I don't think anyone has used a penabled tablet PC screen and replaced it with say, the Intuos range? I'm still waiting for a response from the seller on size and resolution, but what if there was truth to this? Maybe by figuring out what makes that screen so special would help in guaranteeing a more jitter-free build?




1024x768 is 4:3 (like your 6x8 tablet) -  (do the math yourself: divide by 256 in this case). The exact  active area of the tablet is 6.0 by 8.0 -- sometimes wacom tablets have a bigger active area than advertised but that is just because there is some macro buttons at the top, so that does not really count -- unless we find a way to use the area instead of the buttons.

I do not understand -- are you saying that most 10 inches are 1024x768 ?

My bad. A lot ARE 1024 x 600. A vendor's site I once looked at had a LOT of 1024 x 768 ones (I think they were LG ones) when I did a search for 10" screens. I saw some that were 1366 x 768, but these are for the weird Sony Vaio laptops and they were calling THOSE screens 10.1"... But we all know that most vendors call ANYTHING close to 10 inches, 10.0". So it's just them lying again. They were probably 10.4" or something. Grin



Sorry chocochan - I retract what I said if it was wrong. Embarrassed I probably forgot or mixed with somebody else. I "multitask" a lot on this site (I am of the male-type gender, and they are usually pretty bad at it).

The original intent is to help here.

I doubt you were wrong at all. You know WAY more than I ever could. More than likely it was my fault.



They way I see building the really dirt-cheap DIY cintiqs is a process driven by "opportunity". You cannot design and then get parts, it is the reverse, you get parts and then you design around it. It is like walking in a scrap yard to find 2 pieces that would somehow fit together (screen and tablet in our case). And until you see one is working good on top of the other in front of your eyes, you will never know if it will work.

I understand that. But was I really far from that process? I wanted to get certain parts and work with them until I see results. However, people with the tools and possibly the knowledge (not talking about people here on these forums), weren't willing to help. Here is the forum that piqued my interest in the iPad screen in the first place:

http://www.mp3car.com/lcd-display/144879-need-help-selecting-controller-for-ipad-lcd.html

If you scroll down, you'll see a post from a guy who mentions njytouch and their controllers. I believe that it is possible to drive the iPad panel and if I got the correct cable and controller, it'll work. The screen is not expensive, so I'm willing to try, but the only reply I get from them is "can't help". No recommendation of an alternative screen. They just mentioned one that is too big and actually cost a lot of money (to get it here is around £80 if you're lucky). Yes, it may work with their controllers, but it's not what I want. The iPad screen is actually CHEAPER and an original too.



« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 10:46:51 PM by Chocochan » Logged
Chocochan
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« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2011, 10:39:18 PM »

Quote
There's a number of them on eBay UK right now. One's ending in 13 hours is around £400. Someone's just listed one and it's starting at 99p (I know it WON'T stay that way). There's even a 21UX as well. I suppose the real question burning in the back of my mind is "if they're so good, WHY are people selling them?" No use for them anymore? Not quite what they expected? Any particular underlying issues? Can't justify the cost. At least with a DIY one you're building it YOUR way and you have the chance to improve on what Wacom didn't do right. I mean, really, who else but someone SERIOUSLY interested in art and/or design would cough up the money for one?

Those are generally actual retailers, or people who buy them on consignment to make a profit. Even with the 0.99 start bid they usually finish close to the actual worth and aren't worth looking at for a bargain hunter. By rare, I mean an honest-to-goodness used cintiq. People generally don't give these things up. When the do it's because they need quick cash on a large ticket item, they've upgraded to larger unit, it's 20 years old, etc. Just like anything else, it rarely has to do with  product flaw.


If you have the skills to work with resin and similar material, you personally have the ability to make a professional finished product ~ just make sure you leave an access point in case, say 5 years from now, a normal wear and tear type of situation occurs (lcds can burn out in normal uses too) . I'm working on my own intuos3 6x8 project with a 10.1" screen, so I can check any measurements if that will help. The intuos3 is as thick as a relatively thin notebook, so adding a 5.5mm screen and little amount of resin won't be that different from what your describing. Just put the wires and control on the side of the intuos inside your resin case. Or carefully arange things inside the wacom case if that's your route.

Getting upset over an lcd you haven't bought yet isn't the worse you can come across in this project. We're talking about live wires and delicate crystal displays, dangerous stuff if you're not careful (ask anyone on the forum). But you'll be fine as long as you apply some basic problem solving and thorough research before any purchases,

Bernard is just trying to warn you of the risks we all assume with a  do-it-yourself, things break, people get shocked, etc resulting in extra cash and time (and occasionally band aids). But your working on a smaller than normal project, whose items are relatively cheaper. Depending on your choice, a 10.1" shouldn't run more than $70, any where from $25-$65 with shipping.

I don't have the time/patience/contacts (I get old phones from people instead of laptops with salvageable screens) to make a dirt cheap one myself, just as cheap as I can with the quality I want.

I know all that (well the safety issues and risks), I've worked with many electrical items and haven't killed any of them (many with even smaller screens, but they tend to be more durable), and I'm aware of what can happen (it still pains me when I see some people don't ground themselves AND the area they're working on! When I was first learning I did buzz myself, so I always use an anti-static strap and mat that has a built in resistor in case of shocks). My issue isn't with what can happen, it's more about not getting what I want. You say you want to build one with the quality YOU want. I'm no different from you. I want different components, that's all. I want to build it the best way I can since it is MY ONLY BUILD. Just like you I want a build that works with the quality I want. If there is a chance that I can get my criteria within my budget filled, then aren't I allowed to take that chance?

I believe there IS a chance. But I'm not getting the answers I need. I don't go to manufacturers expecting them make me something. That would be wasting their time and money. But if I go to a RETAILER and ask them for something they have and they won't sell it to me, or to work with me on their product and they flat out refuse me, I don't have a right to complain? Maybe this isn't the project for me. The procedure is sound, there is no doubting that. I want a decent screen as I'll be doing EVERYTHING art related on it. Why should I settle for a sub-par panel with poor viewing angles just so I can say "yay, I built a Cintiq!" If I'm going to be putting actual effort into this, putting my money into this, I'm doing it well or not at all.

Oh, and about the Cintiqs for sale. I don't think ALL of them there now are from retailers or people who are after a profit. I have seen some genuine used ones, though I do agree, they are hard to find. Funnily enough most of them are 12WXs...

EDIT: Things may be looking up. Got an interesting email. Will need to see how this goes...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 11:06:49 PM by Chocochan » Logged
Ueki
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« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2011, 11:06:24 PM »

I'm not disputing any of that. I was just listing a few things so you can find the right parts for your build. Like looking through websites that list the data sheets for lcds, looking through different sizeswhich will still work and look perfect with a 6x8,  and expanding your parameters slightly during product searches. I'm not saying to change WHAT you want, change how you LOOK for it and DESIGN around it.

 It's just natural to warn someone when dealing with electronics, even if they know what their doing (it's human nature).

« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 11:07:59 PM by Ueki » Logged
Martytoof
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« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2011, 02:10:59 AM »

I'm not sure how many of you work on MacOS, but 10.7 introduced a cool feature into the display preferences where you can artificially introduce underscan in your monitor.



The OS does a fairly decent job of scaling the graphics. I'm thinking about using this method to shoehorn a 6x8 tablet onto a 15" 1024x768 LCD and fabricating a custom enclosure.

It's obviously not as elegant as properly sizing your monitor, but I'm thinking about giving this a whirl, at least until I can find a proper LCD to work with a 6x8.
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Rik!
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« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2011, 07:47:47 AM »

Underscaning is a bad idea imo. It results in a blurry screen and with a panel with slow resolution it'll be worse.
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buildorbust
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« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2011, 08:10:14 PM »

Underscaning is a bad idea imo. It results in a blurry screen and with a panel with slow resolution it'll be worse.

It could work, but you'd have to also drop resolution to compensate, which defeats the purpose of getting a higher res screen to begin with.
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