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Author Topic: Monitor questions.  (Read 5497 times)
Tigertron
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« on: October 08, 2011, 01:57:52 PM »

So...Hello Smiley

Here is what I did to my old Viewsonic VA902b. Its 1280x1024 and has a 375x305mm LCD. FYI

I have just received a Intuos4 XL that I want to turn into a cintiq.

The XL is HUGE. Continental huge! I got a deal and, well, I didn't really think about the size. That's ok. I want to use it mostly for 2d but I do need to do modeling as well. Detail is the main objective.

Back to the monitor. I know I'm going to get a bigger one. The Intuos has a 495x305mm active area and I want to get a monitor that will cover as much as I can. The acer I have on this PC is about the right size and I may get upgraded:)

But I need to figure stuff out first.

I have never seen the insides of a LCD monitor so I figured I better check one out. My viewsonic was mostly a paperweight so it was sacrificed. It was pretty easy to open and I got all the boards out. I extended the DC voltage cable from the power supply to the video driver board with some cat5.

Everything would lay flat this way. Almost.

This is what I have going on.


* DSC01228.JPG (165.11 KB. 640x480 - viewed 368 times.)
" alt="" border="0" />

The big problem is the Horz and Vert connection PCB must be behind the LCD because of a small ribbion cable.

Look here

* DSC01220.JPG (165.07 KB. 640x480 - viewed 380 times.)" alt="" border="0" />

My big fail of the night was replacing that cable with wires. Don't try it. Its very hard and it wont work. The freqs on that cable must be very high. So after I undid all that I tried it with the PCBs wraped behind and the whole thing sitting on top of the Intuos. It works up to the area where the boards are lifting the LCD, and then the pen, too high for pen signal to reach the Intuos.

So number one question is how do guys, who have done this, change that cable? Or are other monitors easier to move the boards out of the way.

Also what would be a good resolution for a 16:10 monitor? Which is approx what the XL active area is.

Thanks
Tony

(Hmm..hope the images make it)


* DSC01221.JPG (163.63 KB, 640x480 - viewed 358 times.)
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janm
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 02:42:13 PM »

We usually get FFC extensions to extend these flat cables so we can fold these out of the way.

Have a look around the forum there is some information about this.

About this screen i too am on the lookout for a screen 16:10 screen to use with my intous3 A3 wide but can't seem to find one  Sad
At the moment i'm conteplating a lg ips236v or ips226v.  Both are 16:9 but are ips so good viewing angles and cheap....

these are the builds i'm looking at.....

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=2000.0

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1967.0

BTW how much did you get your intous 4 xl for and where from?

Jan
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 02:44:47 PM by janm » Logged
Tigertron
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 08:35:17 PM »

I got the Intuos for $425 open box from Mac Mall. It is refurbished but very clean and working.

Thank for the links to those builds. I had seen the Riki one. Not the other. I have tried to read as much as I can find here but I also want to work on this.

So you extend the ribbon cable? I checked DigiKey and they have FFC that look like the cables used for old IDE drives. I only recently threw away all the ones I had:(

Still the pitch (trace spacing) on those cables are probably too wide to connect to the cable here. Any other sources for these cables? I guess Mouser. Perhaps I should look huh? Perhaps you may have a good source already.

If I take that cable off one more time it won't go back so I need to make sure it can work first. I think I may put this LCD in a overhead projector. I could use something like that. I may go over to Frys today and browse.

The tough part to solder is the end where the cable connector is. There is not much room and finding pads on the pcb that are large enough is difficult. I did it once though.

So I'm going to assume that if I had done it with a ribbon cable it would have worked. My individual wires created cross talk I think. I was getting no horizontal lines.

Thanks for the info. I will try again.

Oh I still would like to know about resolution. Does it matter what you use? Higher better? Or is there a point where it just doesn't make a difference anymore?

Tony
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janm
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 09:12:55 PM »


Count the pins on the FFC (ribbon cable)... then measure the pitch with a ruler.
you will have 0.5mm pitch or 1mm pitch.

read this thread.

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1102.msg1321#msg1321

You can then find a FFC to match.

My source was DIY-Beamer.

They have litttle PCB boards that make the FFC to FFC connections easier and more reliable.

http://diy-beamer.com/index.php?cPath=39_42&XTCsid=dffd6bc4aba89264bac0230392dc6a6f

the diy beamer extension kits look like this.

Your screen FFC - PCB - FFC extension to other board on your screen




Resolution it does not matter what you screen you use. Lower res usually have less Jitter....    however depending on how those guys get on
with the LG IPS226V screens they may have a decent res and little jitter.

Jan
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 09:15:34 PM by janm » Logged
Tigertron
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 10:37:37 PM »

Hmm.  I see. The Beamer guys are in Austria how hard was it to get that cable? Are you in the US? I think I'll see what I can cludge up first. If I jack up this monitor I wont be too sad but I'll try not to.

I see what you are talking about with ips. I wasn't familiar with that. I can also see how LED will be an advantage.

I'm going to have to shop around and see what I find. Got those other threads on watch too so I'll see how they fair with those monitors.

Thanks
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janm
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 11:15:25 PM »


I'm in the uk, and i got my cable within a week from DIY beamer.

There might be sources in the US but i'm not aware of any i'm afraid.

Good luck.

Also read through a few older threads, it will help you quite a lot.

Jan

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Tigertron
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 01:18:00 AM »

Thanks I have found one source in the US now. I have also spent most of the afternoon reading the forums. At least as much as I can for now. Lots of good stuff hidden in the threads.

So my search for a monitor will be the first thing to do. I need to find one pretty quick so I'll be heading to the stores with my tape measure.

Thanks for the help Jan. I now have a pretty good idea what I need and what to look for.

Tony
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Tigertron
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 01:29:28 PM »

Today I went and bought a IDE drive cable. I kicked myself for recycling about 20 of them last month. Whatever.

While hooking it up I discovered with my last effort I had hooked one wire to the wrong spot. My cluster of individual wire might have worked but I'll never know.
After getting the cable done and the monitor hooked up I have a small area at the  bottom of the screen that is missing horizontal lines. I'm not sure why but I don't really care. I'm going to use this as a projector screen for a overhead projector.  The projector can not see that part of the screen anyway.

My projector has a burned bulb so I can't test it but it should work. I stripped out the back light and eliminated the power supply board. I found a little 5v power supply I had saved that is hooked up to run the video driver board. And I made a masking tape case using the front bezel. But that would be for another forum Smiley

With the Wacom it worked pretty good. I only found the jitter within about 5mm near the lights and it wasn't that bad. I could live with that. Because I would never use it that close to the edge. But its not going to be for that so..meh

Good experience working with the LCD so I know what not to do. Like solder over the panel. Tiny bit of plastic got melted but it was also on the edge. Also know its possible to extend the ribbon cable by soldering, but its not easy.

The DIY-Beamer is the best option and will most likely do that on what ever monitor I get. 14 euro isn't bad but I wonder what the shipping to the US is.

Also I cannot find 16:10 monitors anywhere. I am using one right now but it is a few years old. Everywhere I went I only find 16:9. They used to be common. hmm

I did look at the LG ips226v. And it will be perfect since 16:10 monitors are not made anymore. The stand and housing suck (this is good). Also good is the power supply is a 12v brick and it has HDMI.

It gets pretty warm LED or not. The one I saw was hot. The brick was hot too. The dimensions were a little small but I think the 236v should be better. I never found one of those though. I checked out the viewing angle and found it will work fine raised a little to slant toward you and sitting flat. The display seems a bit dim. Should not be an issue since I will be close to it or it could have been just some setting. And your right, they are cheap. $190usd. Cheaper online.

So I think this will be it. Now I just need to order one.

Tony
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janm
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 02:39:30 PM »



Yeah I think its good to get a little bit of experience dismantling before going at it properly.

I think i will use a IPS 236V just to get that little bit of extra height for drawing.

One thing.
are you going to dismantle your intuos or just use your screen on top of it.
Only mention this as some screens are thicker then others...

jan
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bernard
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 11:47:51 PM »

Quote
My projector has a burned bulb so I can't test it but it should work. I stripped out the back light and eliminated the power supply board. I found a little 5v power supply I had saved that is hooked up to run the video driver board. And I made a masking tape case using the front bezel. But that would be for another forum

Give us the link to that other forum (if any) -- else you can also post stuff (and pictures?) about your projector and whatnot.  Your choice really.
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bernard
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 11:51:21 PM »

Quote
Thanks I have found one source in the US now.

US source for FFC cables? Do they also have the PCB "female" board to "extend" a cable or is this just a plain "replacement cable"? (Because DIY Beamer are the only ones (I know) that have such PCBs).
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Tigertron
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 01:01:49 AM »

Give us the link to that other forum (if any) -- else you can also post stuff (and pictures?) about your projector and whatnot.  Your choice really.

That was just some hopeful thinking. Since this is a diy cintiq forum I did not want to start talking about something else. Perhaps when I get the bulb and make the case a bit better I'll post some pics.

Quote
US source for FFC cables? Do they also have the PCB "female" board to "extend" a cable or is this just a plain "replacement cable"? (Because DIY Beamer are the only ones (I know) that have such PCBs).

No board just cables. They also sell the connectors and I was thinking to wire two back to back but after this endeavor I don't think I want to try and solder those tiny pins. Also I could not find pricing only request for quote. That leads me to believe they won't sell me just one. So DIY-Beamer looks like the best option. I do know a guy who buys electronics components from salvage to resell I will ask him what he knows. He has been doing it for many years and his father before him so if something like that exists he would know.

Tony
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Tigertron
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 01:12:45 AM »



Yeah I think its good to get a little bit of experience dismantling before going at it properly.

I think i will use a IPS 236V just to get that little bit of extra height for drawing.

One thing.
are you going to dismantle your intuos or just use your screen on top of it.
Only mention this as some screens are thicker then others...

jan

This is my thought as well. Do you by chance know the dimensions of the LCD panel on those two monitors? I didn't write down the 226 when I was there and I'm not finding it easy on the web. Just want to be certain I know what I'm getting.

The wonderful little web utility linked on another post gives me a dimension from the diagonal and aspect ratio but I would rather have true numbers from a tape measure.

And for now the Intuos will stay in tact. I want to make sure it is good before I do anything to it. Once I get the monitor working I may pull it apart and combine the two. My case will be a true hack nothing of beauty like some I have seen here. I'm thinking melamine or wood. Or cardboard Smiley covered with a piece if glass or lexan. But that's too far away to think about right now.
Tony
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 01:22:36 AM by Tigertron » Logged
janm
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 12:53:27 PM »



Both monitors are 1920 x 1080 res

ips 226v is 0.248mm pixel pitch
ips 236v is 0.265mm pixel pitch

that makes the active area's...

ips 226v....  476.16mm x 267.84mm
ips 236v...   508.8mm x 286.2mm

Height you dont gain that much, and to get that extra height over the 22" you have a large overhang (width wise) compared to the active area of the wacom
I've cut paper to see what it looks like on the tablet and i get the feeling 16:9 is esthetically wrong for a tablet.

I would much rether have a 24" as you pointed out in your other thread.
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