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Author Topic: 24" Monitor for the IntuosXL  (Read 11308 times)
Tigertron
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« on: October 10, 2011, 07:05:37 AM »

Currently I'm still looking for the best monitor for this pad.

The 23" LG IPS236 is looking pretty good for the price but looking at the Cintiq 24HD I see they use a 24" monitor (duh).

24" 1920x1200 are pretty easy to find and it would seem that it would over hang the tablet by about 1cm all around. To me this seems like a better option if the jitter starts when you get close to the edge as it did in my experiment.

So what do you think? Then...Any ideas on a good cheapish 24" monitor. Looking for the IPS or PLS technology.

Tony
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janm
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 10:51:19 AM »



This is exactly what i'm looking for but so far i've not really found any with an external power supply.

Also maybe the diffusers are going to be too thick?

If only we knew what display screens the 24" cintiq uses.... Undecided

My thinking was IPS, LED so that diffuser is a bit thinner...?


Jan
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Tigertron
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 03:28:58 PM »

Hmm ok so a bigger screen means a bigger diffuser to move more light and thicker screen. Ok I see the dilemma.

So I think I would like to see a Cintiq. From the specs I would guess You are correct. It is a ips or similar because of the view angle and led because of the 24v 5a power brick.

A quick google search shows a Dell U2412M for $400usd. Not sure if would even work. Well this is not going to be easy I can tell Smiley

Tony
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 03:31:26 PM by Tigertron » Logged
Pesho
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 03:50:18 PM »

Yes, it's an IPS panel, you can look for more info at the end of the user manuals. Here's the technical specifications for the 12WX:

* 12wx.png (57.37 KB. 643x1211 - viewed 504 times.)


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janm
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 05:58:40 PM »



I've had a look at the specs of the dell and i think the diffuser with screen was approx 2cm thick. So its not possible unless
we can make a diffuser or modify its diffuser. Maybe we can find a broken or faulty one on ebay to test.

Then there is no guarantee we won't get jitter or signal drop outs if we can sort the diffuser out.

Jan
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DonShole
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 06:28:14 PM »

The TabletMod XL build uses this panel AOC e2243fw - a touch smaller than 24 in but a perfect fit. 
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EZ CINTIQ. How to build a DIY Cintiq, it's  easier than a DIY PC! www.tabletmod.com
janm
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2011, 07:01:58 PM »



Hi Don,

Thanks for that, now we have another monitor/screen in the mix  Smiley. Unfortunatly it looks like its another 16:9 screen.

Jan
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buildorbust
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 11:00:02 PM »



Hi Don,

Thanks for that, now we have another monitor/screen in the mix  Smiley. Unfortunatly it looks like its another 16:9 screen.

Jan

I would go with a 24" since that's what Cintiq uses. Unless you get an LED (which is preferable since CCFLs introduce more interference), you're going to have to strip the monitor down through its internal housing (you might need to even with LED). I got an old 23" for my build since it was theoretically the right size for the XL. It was closer to 24" when it came and since it was old the diffuser was massive and I'm literally on the edge of where it can read after stripping everything out, including the internal panel frame.

I would go for the newest 24" monitor you can find that's 1920x1200 since you're more likely to get a thin diffuser and if it's an LED less interference. Plus the fact that older monitors seem to have stricter frequency requirements where newer ones can operate at much higher or lower frequencies (more likely to be interference free).

Mine can only do 60hz, period. Any other freq and it plain won't run. I've been able to minimize some of the interference, but it's been something like a month or two working on this in my spare time and I'm strongly considering just re-assembling the monitor and getting a fresh 24". If that doesn't work, I might just call the project done and save up for the real thing.

Don, how well does that AOC monitor work? Do the pen buttons work or do they need to be disabled to prevent the "crazy-click" syndrome?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 11:05:41 PM by buildorbust » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2011, 11:04:24 PM »

Hmm ok so a bigger screen means a bigger diffuser to move more light and thicker screen. Ok I see the dilemma.

So I think I would like to see a Cintiq. From the specs I would guess You are correct. It is a ips or similar because of the view angle and led because of the 24v 5a power brick.

A quick google search shows a Dell U2412M for $400usd. Not sure if would even work. Well this is not going to be easy I can tell Smiley

Tony

Use code XD5W7S1JRP52C8 at Dell to knock the price down to $320. If you get it, make sure to let us know how it works.
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Tigertron
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 01:24:14 AM »

Thanks for that code but like Jan said it would need a modification on the diffuser. Not something I'm willing to do. I may have to do some more looking at the stores. I'm goons see if I can find a repair shop too.

Cintiq does it and I would imagine they would not have a panel custom made. It's possible I guess but seems unlikely.

@Pesho thanks for that sheet. Do you have the XL sheet by chance or a link to the manual?

Tony

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buildorbust
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 01:40:56 AM »

Thanks for that code but like Jan said it would need a modification on the diffuser. Not something I'm willing to do. I may have to do some more looking at the stores. I'm goons see if I can find a repair shop too.

Cintiq does it and I would imagine they would not have a panel custom made. It's possible I guess but seems unlikely.

@Pesho thanks for that sheet. Do you have the XL sheet by chance or a link to the manual?

Tony



The panel itself doesn't have to be unique. 24" is pretty standard and if their only modification is to ask the manufacturer to make it LED instead of CCFL, that wouldn't be a huge modification on the manufacturer's part. Heck, if they know what they're doing, they could even be bulk ordering the panels by themselves and designing a custom control board and LED setup regardless of what kind of backlighting 24" panels normally have. Easy for a corporation, tough for an individual.
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Tigertron
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 03:26:02 AM »

I'm pretty sure they do do their own electronics because on that spec sheet Pesho put up it says "proprietary USB video interface". I would expect they would just buy a pre-designed panel from samsung, hitachi or whomever. Even just to make an existing led backlight thinner would require tooling and engineering which is the part I'm not sure wacom would do. They might though. But you would think the monitor manufactuers would be the first to want that technology. I have no idea how many 24" cintiqs are sold but I can't imagine it's that many.

One clue would be the brightness and how does it compare to other 24". If it is dimmer that could indicate a custom made backlight.
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buildorbust
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 03:44:09 AM »

I'm pretty sure they do do their own electronics because on that spec sheet Pesho put up it says "proprietary USB video interface". I would expect they would just buy a pre-designed panel from samsung, hitachi or whomever. Even just to make an existing led backlight thinner would require tooling and engineering which is the part I'm not sure wacom would do. They might though. But you would think the monitor manufactuers would be the first to want that technology. I have no idea how many 24" cintiqs are sold but I can't imagine it's that many.

One clue would be the brightness and how does it compare to other 24". If it is dimmer that could indicate a custom made backlight.

They also cost around $3k USD after taxes... so they can pretty much afford to do whatever they need to.
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Pesho
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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 10:16:12 AM »

Thanks for that code but like Jan said it would need a modification on the diffuser. Not something I'm willing to do. I may have to do some more looking at the stores. I'm goons see if I can find a repair shop too.

Cintiq does it and I would imagine they would not have a panel custom made. It's possible I guess but seems unlikely.

@Pesho thanks for that sheet. Do you have the XL sheet by chance or a link to the manual?

Tony

Sure, heres the link for the Cintiq 21UX. Technical specs are at the bottom, and you can find the 12WX manual Here.

The "proprietary USB video interface" is just their own mix of video+USB interface, possibly LVDS and USB leads combined into 1 cable. All Cintiqs use an external "box" where the LCD controller is located, with power and USB inputs next to it. The proprietary cable comes out of the box and plugs into the tablet. I figured this is to get the controller away from the tablet and to keep the actual drawing tablet very slim etc. If something breaks with the LCD controller box or the cable, you can only order it straight from Wacom at jacked-up prices.



They most likely do order panels from Samsung or Hitachi etc., but they are probably very specific ones that only Wacom orders for their products. Only way to find out more details is to open up a Cintiq, but they cost so damn much that nobody is willing to do that  Tongue

EDIT: I checked around the forum and found this thread, where somebody disassembles their 15'' Cintiq PL-550, and the LCD module turns out to be a Hyundai HT15X22-10.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 10:31:21 AM by Pesho » Logged
janm
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 11:02:11 AM »


I found a spec sheet somewhere that says the cintiq 24HD uses a 24" LG.Display H-IPS.

My theory is that the wacom 24HD uses a LG LM240WU4-SL A1, the responce times match up.
This screen can be found in a lot of older monitors. Ie DELL U2410 (its CCFL?)...

The problem is that this panel according to the spec sheets is 3cm thick with diffuser....

Now we know that DELL has released a U2412 model with LED back lighting...

I'm wondering if there has been a revision to the LG LM240WU4 panel for LED that makes
the whole panel thinner. If there has been a revision the maybe wacom just orders one of these
panels?

The U2412 will probably end up being a common monitor, we just have to wait for someone to
open one up on the internet somewhere to see what the panel is like Grin

Like TigerTron says I doubt wacom would custom modify the panels for a thinner Backlight. There
would be the added problem of breakages not only the cost of tooling etc...

Again this is just a theory. For all we know they could custom order panels from LG?


Jan
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