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Author Topic: 24" Monitor for the IntuosXL  (Read 11316 times)
Tigertron
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2011, 12:20:07 PM »

Very good. I will look into those monitors.

But the plot thickens...
Looking at the display specs for the 24HD it shows a brightness of 190cd/m2. This is incredibly dim! I can't believe no one is bitching about that. Almost all monitors I looked at are min 300cd/m2 and some as high as 400cd/m2. Notable the IPS236v is at 250cd/m2. Most people turn down the brightness (except my wife) but if that is max it is pretty weak and this leads me to now believe that Wacom does indeed make their own backlighting.

The cost on that part would be minimal and they are a manufacturer so it is feasible for them to just buy panels and do the backlight and layers plus the frame to hold it all together. From that thread Pesho linked it seems Wacom did not make any of the monitor electronics. And that I believe to still be true. But the LED backlight is rather low tech and might be in their capabilities.

If true that now changes the game. And I am thinking how hard it would be to make a led backlight. I honestly don't want to go down that road so it could be back to the 16:9 monitors.

I'm also curious to where you got the spec sheet on the LG panel. Was it LED?

T
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janm
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2011, 03:50:47 PM »



Hmmm

I see what you mean about the brightness.

190cd/m2 is pretty weak for a modern monitor/screen.

The spec sheet for the ips screens are here,

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.invertercentral.com%2Fspecsheets%2FLM240WU4(SL)(A1).pdf&rct=j&q=lm240wu4%20sl%20a1&ei=DlaUTrZzyciEB43HxdIG&usg=AFQjCNHzNMek2QLeHQT0-ZtXEB9BGvMyQQ&cad=rja


Jan
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buildorbust
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2011, 05:42:10 AM »


I found a spec sheet somewhere that says the cintiq 24HD uses a 24" LG.Display H-IPS.

My theory is that the wacom 24HD uses a LG LM240WU4-SL A1, the responce times match up.
This screen can be found in a lot of older monitors. Ie DELL U2410 (its CCFL?)...

The problem is that this panel according to the spec sheets is 3cm thick with diffuser....

Now we know that DELL has released a U2412 model with LED back lighting...

I'm wondering if there has been a revision to the LG LM240WU4 panel for LED that makes
the whole panel thinner. If there has been a revision the maybe wacom just orders one of these
panels?

The U2412 will probably end up being a common monitor, we just have to wait for someone to
open one up on the internet somewhere to see what the panel is like Grin

Like TigerTron says I doubt wacom would custom modify the panels for a thinner Backlight. There
would be the added problem of breakages not only the cost of tooling etc...

Again this is just a theory. For all we know they could custom order panels from LG?


Jan


Re: LED's being thinner my impression is those made in the past couple years usually are (often advertised as ultra-slim etc..). Older ones may be no better than this frustrating CCFL I'm struggling with. From what I saw with the two people using intuos3 a4 and 21" screens for it, diffuser seemed very thin. That means good read distance as well as no CCFL interference. I'm still trying to make the CCFL I have right now work, but I'll probably go for a modern ultra-slim LED like the LGs if I can't. That would give me the added benefit of actually having some reading height to spare. But honestly, unless you really like the DIY thing or your money is more valuable than your time, you're better off working a a few extra hours every week for a bit and cash in on the 24HD.

One problem I've also run into is having sufficient workspace for everything. If you have a ton of spare wood and space etc.. to rig up apparatus to make it easy for you to move things around, shield different things, etc.. etc.. then you make your life a bit easier (I don't have that luxury). There's also the annoyance of having to wait sometimes a week and a half for specialized extenders, extention cables, or other parts you didn't realize you needed. I'm trying to get this done, just because I've spent so much of my spare time on it these past couple months, but it's a lot of time and a certain degree of stress too. It's not just the mechanical stuff (which isn't too bad if you're used to ripping apart electronics, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend to someone who hasn't ever done a DIY solder repair etc.. before). A lot more fragile than a computer for instance and a number of people have ruined panels. Then there's the time component for researching everything and hunting down parts.

If you're very lucky or you copy someone else's working build and don't screw anything up, you can get something up and running pretty quick. But it can easily suck a lot of time, especially troubleshooting and inspecting to figure out what's causing interference or a soft-short that causes stuff to freak out but doesn't shut anything down.
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Tigertron
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 01:05:19 PM »

I dont plan on stressing out on this too much.  It's why I don't really want to spend a bunch of money on a monitor. $200usd would be ok as long as if it doesn't work out I could put it on my desktop. I'm happy with the pad just as it is. I don't *need* a cintiq but it would be nice. I do have the electronics skills and I plan to have a dedicated work space for the tiq. So I don't mind putzing with it for a bit to see what I can do. And if I fail perhaps I'll help someone along. We'll see.

Out of curiosity which monitor do you have? Sorry i missed it if you mentioned it already.

I am watching craigs list and eBay for a good monitor for cheap but like you said it's the newer ones that I think will work best. They don't show up.

On eBay there are refurb LG ips236 for $160usd I'll get one of those and try it if I can't find anything better.

 
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buildorbust
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2011, 09:10:11 PM »

Those IPS LG's don't appear to have any jitter from the builds using them.

In terms of the panel I'm using, I'm not posting anything about it until I've either got it working stably w/out cutouts (or other random crap) or determined that the problem rests in the panel itself. There's some intereference from the inverter and CCFLs on this one, but also some w/o the inverter in the mix. Which means I need to play more with my shielding and positioning of the different control boards to see if I can get rid of it and make it usable as more than a "look I did this" kind of thing.

If I can get it working I'll post a build log, but it's one thing for me to spend my money and another thing to post something that might make others waste their own. Those LG panels seem to be pretty solid from the jitter/read height perspective, but just be careful handling them. My advice is to build a tray to hold the panel itself with the control board(s) unfolded. If they have any screw holes to make use of, use those too. THEN start mucking around with all the other stuff once you have a sturdy frame for the LCD and its boards.

Edit: actually I might try exactly that if I can't get this one working appreciably well. 16:10 obviously is preferable, but if 16:9 screens (generally newer) work better that might be the way to go if I decide to continue with this project at that point.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 09:12:53 PM by buildorbust » Logged
rossmorr
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 10:22:21 AM »

Be thoughtful about where exactly you want the over-hang to be. I have a 21" diy-cintiq with only the middle part of the screen active, and a 23" with all but a 1" strip on the extreme right side of the screen active.
Here are the videos of the diy-cintiqs
morganross@rossmorr.com

http://<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qPf8XK_4iFw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qPf8XK_4iFw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

http://<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4DZxTZmveHI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4DZxTZmveHI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>[flash=200,200][/flash]

http://<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4DZxTZmveHI?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
http://<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qPf8XK_4iFw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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buildorbust
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2011, 07:35:44 AM »

My project has been on temporarily on hold as life's gotten in the way, but if anyone wants to give the 24" ultrasharps a go to see how they handle, Dell has them on sale right now for $300: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-2676&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=566643&acd=10550055-4485850-u120582t3610414f9fp63436dd0c0s441
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