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Author Topic: Starting out - To begin at the beginning.  (Read 27592 times)
bernard
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2011, 05:30:38 PM »

FFC "extenders" are a real bummer -- AFAIK, diy-beamer are the only ones that have those.  This is a custom PCB that they probably built.  There are potential alternatives, but they are far from ideal.

Note: If you cannot find the size that fits your cable, you can get away with a bigger one (same pitch though, like 0.5mm) and carefully connect it.

I searched for alternatives, but found nothing really compelling.

Doing a simtiq is a very bumpy road. Don't put too much money thinking that it will work for sure -- it might all end up in the garbage. Lots of people broke at least one LCD -- some LCDs were extremely nice ones and brand new $$$.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 05:35:07 PM by bernard » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2011, 06:02:42 PM »

The way I am, that just means I'll be 4x as careful Smiley

That's also why I was asking about the LED issue because I'd like to avoid having to deal with extenders.

But I also just realized I've got a potential size mismatch if I use that monitor, as there appear to be two different ratio Intuos4's (listed as 19.2x12 and 18.2x12 in different places on Wacom's site). Since I'm not sure which one mine will be, I'd better wait to get a display until I'm sure it will match up closely so there isn't wrap-around (and hopefully to avoid needing an extension FFS).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 09:18:40 PM by buildorbust » Logged
Rik!
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2011, 09:24:26 PM »

I don't think that such a creen exist. You will need longer FFC or extension for sure.
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Pesho
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2011, 09:37:38 PM »

There is no screen that fits perfectly with the Intuos4 XL (18.18 x 12 inch). The closest screens to an Intuos4 L are 14'' or 15'' 4:3 screens, but even they wouldn't be accurate. Why did Wacom suddenly stop having proper ratios for their tablets?

Also, you can use http://tvcalculator.com/ to find the exact dimensions of a screen.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 09:40:14 PM by Pesho » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2011, 09:52:59 PM »

18.2x12 is ~3:2, c=21.8"
19.2x12 is 16:10, c=22.64"

The LG I was looking at would fit pretty close if it's the former since it's also 16:9 and similar diagonal.

But I read somewhere that they switched to 16:10 on newer Intuos4's which seems consistent with the fact that Wacom lists different dimensions on different pages. I'll just wait and measure it once it arrives and then shop for a screen from there.

Edit: Brain fart, don't know what I was thinking.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:15:13 AM by buildorbust » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2011, 09:59:31 PM »

I don't think that such a creen exist. You will need longer FFC or extension for sure.

I'm also considering going for a larger screen - 23-24" and just having dead zones on the edges it's larger than the Intuos.

A larger set might also not have FFC's that are so short as the 226. So I'm still mulling it over a bit.
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Pesho
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2011, 10:17:36 PM »

These sizes are not correct... check the URL in my last post. 18.2x12 is not a 16:9 ratio, because if you divide 18.2 by 12 you do not get 1.777(7), as you would if you divide 16 by 9.

- 18.2x12 is closest to a 21'' 16:9 screen (18.32'' x 10.29''), or a 25'' 16:9 (21.2" x 11.91"), depending on whether you want to match the horizontal or vertical dimension.

- On Wacom's website it lists the active area for the Intuos4XL as 462 mm x 305 mm, which converts to 18.18892'' x 12.00784''... They really should start using the metric system for screens... Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 10:19:58 PM by Pesho » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2011, 11:09:27 PM »

So Pesho, you mean that for a Intuos4XL, 21 inches is the biggest *16:9 widescreen* display one could get without incurring unreachable screen area.  But with the trick of "cropping" the LCD (with nvidia/ati/powerstrip), getting a 25 inch would cover the entire tablet.  Right?

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Pesho
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2011, 12:06:44 AM »

The screen-cropping trick on the Intuos4XL is only needed if you're using the bigger, 25'' 16:9 screen!

- With a 21'' the horizontal dimension would be covered (18.32''), but the vertical is not enough (10.29''), so you'd have 1.71'' unused tablet area. Not a problem, since you can crop out the tablet's active area instead.

- With a 25'' you'd have the vertical dimension covered, but the horizontal would be so over-covered that it might overlap the tablet's buttons...

So the best case scenario for the Intuos4XL is to use a 21'' 16:9 screen and just crop out the tablet's active are a bit. Not a big deal since you're only losing 1.71 inches (45.466mm) and the whole screen will be usable by the tablet.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 12:08:22 AM by Pesho » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2011, 01:19:14 AM »

These sizes are not correct... check the URL in my last post. 18.2x12 is not a 16:9 ratio, because if you divide 18.2 by 12 you do not get 1.777(7), as you would if you divide 16 by 9.

- 18.2x12 is closest to a 21'' 16:9 screen (18.32'' x 10.29''), or a 25'' 16:9 (21.2" x 11.91"), depending on whether you want to match the horizontal or vertical dimension.

- On Wacom's website it lists the active area for the Intuos4XL as 462 mm x 305 mm, which converts to 18.18892'' x 12.00784''... They really should start using the metric system for screens... Roll Eyes

Thanks, I think I was making fuzzy math in an effort to turn it into 16:9 (assuming that Wacom was using a normal aspect ratio). But either way, I should wait to measure which my model is: http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Intuos/Compare.aspx

shows 487.7mm x 304.8mm for the XL (16:10). So if there're two different ratio versions floating around I should probably wait and see what I get before shopping for a panel.

The screen-cropping trick on the Intuos4XL is only needed if you're using the bigger, 25'' 16:9 screen!

- With a 21'' the horizontal dimension would be covered (18.32''), but the vertical is not enough (10.29''), so you'd have 1.71'' unused tablet area. Not a problem, since you can crop out the tablet's active area instead.

- With a 25'' you'd have the vertical dimension covered, but the horizontal would be so over-covered that it might overlap the tablet's buttons...

So the best case scenario for the Intuos4XL is to use a 21'' 16:9 screen and just crop out the tablet's active are a bit. Not a big deal since you're only losing 1.71 inches (45.466mm) and the whole screen will be usable by the tablet.

I think you've got it reversed. By my figures, 21.5" (17.2"x12.9") covers the vertical dimension, but is slightly short on the horizontal. 25" would actually be overkill in both dimensions (20"x15"). 23" (18.4"x13.8") seems to be the best common ground, if it turns out to not be 16:10.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 04:13:35 AM by buildorbust » Logged
Rik!
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2011, 07:50:31 AM »

These sizes are not correct... check the URL in my last post. 18.2x12 is not a 16:9 ratio, because if you divide 18.2 by 12 you do not get 1.777(7), as you would if you divide 16 by 9.

- 18.2x12 is closest to a 21'' 16:9 screen (18.32'' x 10.29''), or a 25'' 16:9 (21.2" x 11.91"), depending on whether you want to match the horizontal or vertical dimension.

- On Wacom's website it lists the active area for the Intuos4XL as 462 mm x 305 mm, which converts to 18.18892'' x 12.00784''... They really should start using the metric system for screens... Roll Eyes

Thanks, I think I was making fuzzy math in an effort to turn it into 16:9 (assuming that Wacom was using a normal aspect ratio). But either way, I should wait to measure which my model is: http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Intuos/Compare.aspx

shows 487.7mm x 304.8mm for the XL (16:10). So if there're two different ratio versions floating around I should probably wait and see what I get before shopping for a panel.

The screen-cropping trick on the Intuos4XL is only needed if you're using the bigger, 25'' 16:9 screen!

- With a 21'' the horizontal dimension would be covered (18.32''), but the vertical is not enough (10.29''), so you'd have 1.71'' unused tablet area. Not a problem, since you can crop out the tablet's active area instead.

- With a 25'' you'd have the vertical dimension covered, but the horizontal would be so over-covered that it might overlap the tablet's buttons...

So the best case scenario for the Intuos4XL is to use a 21'' 16:9 screen and just crop out the tablet's active are a bit. Not a big deal since you're only losing 1.71 inches (45.466mm) and the whole screen will be usable by the tablet.

I think you've got it reversed. By my figures, 21.5" (17.2"x12.9") covers the vertical dimension, but is slightly short on the horizontal. 25" would actually be overkill in both dimensions (20"x15"). 23" (18.4"x13.8") seems to be the best common ground, if it turns out to not be 16:10.

No your wrong and he's right. As the 16:9 ration is larger, it'll cover more horizontal dimension than vertical. On mine I completely fit the horizontal dimension but I'm about 1 inch short vertically.
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Pesho
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2011, 11:04:57 AM »

Thanks, I think I was making fuzzy math in an effort to turn it into 16:9 (assuming that Wacom was using a normal aspect ratio). But either way, I should wait to measure which my model is: http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Intuos/Compare.aspx

shows 487.7mm x 304.8mm for the XL (16:10). So if there're two different ratio versions floating around I should probably wait and see what I get before shopping for a panel.

Ha, you are right! 487.7mm x 304.8mm really is a proper 16:10 ratio - makes you wonder which size is the correct one... I was looking at this page, and it lists it as  462 mm x 305 mm.

Quote
I think you've got it reversed. By my figures, 21.5" (17.2"x12.9") covers the vertical dimension, but is slightly short on the horizontal. 25" would actually be overkill in both dimensions (20"x15"). 23" (18.4"x13.8") seems to be the best common ground, if it turns out to not be 16:10.

Right again... I was using tvcalculator.com to get the figures, but what i didn't notice is that the dimensions it showed were actually the size of a 4:3 image INSIDE the 16:9/16:10 screen! So yeah, 17.2"x12.9" is the correct size for a 21.5'' LCD and it should fit the bill  Tongue 23'' also works, as long as it doesn't cover the buttons...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:09:02 AM by Pesho » Logged
buildorbust
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2011, 01:58:19 PM »

No your wrong and he's right. As the 16:9 ration is larger, it'll cover more horizontal dimension than vertical. On mine I completely fit the horizontal dimension but I'm about 1 inch short vertically.

Nope, we've got different tablets. If the i4 is in fact that wacky 18.2x12" aspect ratio (~3:2), it's equivalent to 15:10 which means the horizontal is actually a little shorter. If the tablet is 16:10 (per the other wacom link), then matching it up is easier, although I think I 'd have to go with a non-LED LCD in order to get IPS which would be suboptimal.

I'm actually kind of hoping that it's that wacky 3:2 ratio, even though it'll mean I'll need to crop the top and/or bottom out since that'll increase the likelihood that I don't need any extension ribbon (leaning toward a 23" now in that case).
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buildorbust
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« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2011, 03:02:35 PM »

FFC "extenders" are a real bummer -- AFAIK, diy-beamer are the only ones that have those.  This is a custom PCB that they probably built.  There are potential alternatives, but they are far from ideal.

Note: If you cannot find the size that fits your cable, you can get away with a bigger one (same pitch though, like 0.5mm) and carefully connect it.

I searched for alternatives, but found nothing really compelling.

Doing a simtiq is a very bumpy road. Don't put too much money thinking that it will work for sure -- it might all end up in the garbage. Lots of people broke at least one LCD -- some LCDs were extremely nice ones and brand new $$$.

I was looking a bit and I had a question about the breaking LCD's thing. Is the weak link generally the connection to the board(s) or is the cable itself flimsy? What I'm wondering is whether reinforcing that connection(s) before mucking with anything would prevent that from happening.
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bernard
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2011, 03:23:47 PM »

LCDs are broken in a variety of ways (from putting foil without insulation(!!!))  -- but the most "dangerous" I would say is when you start unfolding the circuit. Every line and column in the LCD matrix have (I think) a tiny wire in one of the flex circuit.  Those are not soldered -- it is bond by other exotic technique and can "disconnect" with little force. This is going to the "glass substrate" where the lcd matrix is.   This flexible pcb is like plastic paper: it can rip easily (once it starts ripping on one side the crack can easily get longer). 

I would say that you should try to avoid to fold/unfold to often and once unfolded, reduce the movements of the LCD to a minimum. Easier said than done. 

The first time you will touch a LCD Panel you will be super careful I am sure -- but after a little while, one typically gets a little bit more "secure", "excited" and/or "focused on another problem" -- the carefullyness drops a little -- and that's a potential danger.

You should not put "tape" onto the fragile parts, because if you ever need to remove it, then you have a potentially bigger problem.

The jitter is also another issue whereby people have abandonned a LCD because it was creating too much interference.  It was not because it was broken.
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