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Author Topic: Waco: Intuos4 XL with 27 inch display (UPDATE:without integrated touchscreen)  (Read 30321 times)
lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2012, 02:47:43 AM »

About the RTC i found the following things:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_pb278q.htm
search for rtc in the page

Can't find much about it. At some reviews they state RTC is used because of the 5ms grey to grey value.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2012, 08:30:21 AM »

Hmm, looks like the panel does use RTC then and therefore RTC/overdrive is unlikely to be a main cause of jitter.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #92 on: December 23, 2012, 03:57:27 AM »

Pffffew, Just had to dissasemble my complete build to change something in the basic structure. I had connected my electronics casing at the back of my panel a little bit to high, hence the inverter-cable for my led-panel was a bit too short. The problem was that the only way to reach the bolts for the casing, i had to remove the tablet.  Sad
On the other hand, this was the moment to glue my ledbar again, because the first try wasn't that succesfull. At some places the bar wan't really fixed to the metal plate, which could have unwanted heating effects.
I glued it again, but now fixed it for an hour with some clamps while lighting the ledbar. The combination of heat and pressure made a good bond. It's now fixed over the whole length of the ledbar.
 Installed everything again and everything still works.I am very glad. Tomorrow mounting the touchpanel. In the mean time i found a solution for activating and deactivation the touchpanel. I will use autohotkey. ( a really great free program to define keyboard-shortcuts) and tomorrow i will test if i can assign such a shortcut to one of the wacom express keys. In that way i could toggle the touchscreen with my wacom express keys.
Almost there...
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2012, 05:12:23 AM »

Build is as good as finished. I have still to finish the top enclosure, but this is not needed. I will finish the enclosure when i am completely satisfied with the build, in that way i can still easily change some things in case it is needed.

Roundup:
pros:
Tablet works perfectly without any jitter. Not even half a pixel. Smiley
The 27 inch screen is perfect, including the viewing angles.

Cons:
Not completely satisfied with the touchscreen. it should be antiglare and i am looking out for a 27 inch projected capacitive touchscreen. The IR touchscreen is ok, but it works not precise enough and you don't have to touch the screen, but just cross the IR-beams, and this gives rather often unwanted clicks.
I have a little to much bleeding to my liking after assembling the screen again. It's not that bad, but one of these days i will give it a try, because i think i can improve it.

I post some pictures tomorrow or the day after.

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silos
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« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2012, 09:21:21 AM »

Thats great. No jitter.  Grin

Do you have a way to distinguish between touches and pen input yet?
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2012, 11:06:46 AM »

Looking forward to seeing some pictures of this, very impressive work!
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2012, 01:03:17 PM »

Aaaarrgggghhh:  Angry

With my macbook air: as wel running on windows as macos everything works perfectly without jitter.
Today i connected the screen to my desktop-pc which is a littlebit more powerfull. (OverClocked quadcore with passive watercooling  Roll Eyes)
On this pc i have jitter. Not a lot, barely a pixel. But even with the small jitter the quality of the line is far worse. The problem is that instead of creating smooth lines, the lines ar jagged.
So it seems that jitter also relates to the graphic card, USB connection, grounding of the PC.....
I connected it back to the macbook and the jitter is gone, so it clearly origines at the pc. (i suspect the overclocked graphic card  Angry )

 i am going to experiment a little with the graphic card, back when i know more.

And merry X-mass and happy NewYear for everybody.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2012, 05:39:08 PM »

wondering if the fact that i have no jitter with the laptop, could have something to do with the way the laptop gets its electricity.
In fact all the interference you get from the net is blocked by the battery. The battery is powered by the net and gets all the possible peaks. The laptop itself is powered with the battery, which gives a very smooth current.
Aerendraca: Do you have a laptop which you can use to test if you gets less jitter with your project?
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eqsOne
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« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2013, 01:20:47 PM »

Well done, can we see some pictures? Interesting thinking about the PC/laptop thing, though with a laptop at the wrong settings it might jitter as hell, too.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #99 on: January 05, 2013, 12:12:40 AM »

Tried today a new videocard, to check if the jitter would improve on the desktop:
Jitter is gone; hurrah, hurrah BUT now the pen resizes her diameter constantly on the left side of the screen. So i get a line with a constantly changing width.
The problem is that i also had to change the power suppy by a stronger one. i didn't buy the best one (expensive) but rather a normal one. One of the differences with this more expensive power supplies is that they (the expensive ones) are more "Green" read "less losses" or read also less RFI.
This is really anoying, i know it works without jitter (hence the laptop which is sadly not really powerfull enough) and still i get interferences with the desktop.  Angry
The thin lines are a pencil with a 2pixel thick line
The thick line is a 89 pixel thick pencil with pressure activated but with no chages in pressure while drawing: still the thickness changes
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 12:20:10 AM by lazy_mosquito » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #100 on: January 06, 2013, 01:12:00 AM »

Hi Lazy_Mosquito, I have used a number of laptops as well as my desktop - even charted it in excel too - no change in amount of jitter across the board. I remember having a conversation with Bernard about whether using the battery instead of mains power would make a difference, but I did not notice any difference when I tried this either.

I've had suspicions from the start about the affect the graphics card has on the jitters, but since all graphics cards should produce digital signals for the screen to use in the same way (due to DVI standardization) I can only see a few things which might play some part.

1. You have a large screen with a high resolution which means that you must be using dual link dvi. Anyone how dual link dvi signals are processed? perhaps simultaneously? Is this always the case? Maybe the Mac does it one way and the PC the other?

2. Like you said, could be a ground issue. Could be that your new power supply has a ground which is different to that of your Mac, perhaps it's floating at a slightly higher or lower voltage which is causing problems when the PC is used but not when the Mac is. This goes back to 0Volts not always being what it seems. But, why would this be a problem? *thought in process*  Hmmm.................... USB powers the Wacom so the Wacom and power supply have the same ground. The graphics card is powered from the same power supply so it has the same ground as the Wacom and the power supply. The screen has it's own power supply and so it's own ground, but the computers and the screen share a common connection through the DVI cable which up until I just wrote this line I assumed linked the grounds but maybe this isn't the case.........Hmmm........... I'll go check with a multimeter............. *end of thought*

*some time later*  Well that was interesting, here's what I found:

a. Ground and Earth are joined on the screen.
b. Ground of the PC PSU is floating 5mV above Earth.
c. DVI Ground on the Graphics card is 40mV below the ground of the PSU (no screen connected), therefore 35mV below Earth.
d. Motherboard USB sockets are also 40mV below PC PSU ground - makes me think the whole motherboard is 40mV below PC PSU ground.

I have had a few screens apart now and the ground connected to Earth is standard as far as I can tell, so this means that when the DVI cable is connected between the screen and the graphics card, the graphics card ground is presumably raised in my case by 35mV. *I need to think on this a bit more as I'm not sure what this means at the moment.*

3. Are your resolution settings, refresh rate, LCD timings the same between the PC and the MAC? You could use Powerstrip on the PC to view those timings, and that similar software for Mac - which I forget the name of - to compare those with the PC.

Well I'll leave it there for now as I'm tired and losing concentration rapidly, not sure if any of that's helpful yet.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #101 on: January 06, 2013, 03:40:48 AM »

Hey Aerendraca, Your thought process ignited mine...  Smiley
I installed the new card and the jitter dissapeared but i got another problem (resizing of pointer) After some checking it looks like this problem is painter 12 related. In Photoshop cs3 everything works perfect.  Huh So i will check the drivers and reinstall Painter.
On the other hand you mentioned the DVI and maybe thats the culprit...
With as well the Mac as the new graphic card i use the mini displayport and have no jitter. With the old card i had only DVI. I thought i read somewhere (don't remember where) that the connection with the LCD and the displayport doesn't need as many conversion steps as the other connectors.
I try to do some more conclusive tests. (the graphic card has also a DVI connector, i will try that one and see if it makes any difference)

BTW: As far as i know i use the same resolution, 2560x1440, and the same refresh rate, 60 Hz

Back tomorrow: I first have to reinstall my complete PC: New video Card, Some other changes, so instead of gluing everything together, i choose to reinstall everything, so i can rule out any driver, or other issues.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2013, 03:45:19 PM »

I have a "little" trouble with the reinstall of my PC. I am actually merging my former server and water-cooled PC. The server has newer hardware so i will rebuild it as a eco-friendly workstation (xeon 1260L / 45W and 16GB of ddr3 with a hd7950 xfx) the graphic card is less power-hungry as the former models. In the old PC and the the server were some SSD's installed. So with all the parts together it will be a "nice desktop-PC"  Cool Problem is that i first have to clean up and merge all the data, and this takes some time. (a little more as anticipated  Sad ) So i hope to be back in one week maximum with some photo's etc.
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pixxelfrizzel
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« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2013, 01:28:24 PM »

One (maybe silly) question: Yout Touchpad needs a second USB i think? Or does the wacom-cirquit have any additional port to attach one? Did you have tested now with a capacitive touch? You mentioned something in this direction.

You use windows, me not. But if the touch is recogniced via a second USB, did your system get it directly as HID, or did you need to install a driver for it? Which producer of the panel did you use? Did it come with the touch-controller or did you have to order that thing separate?

I think with the panel there is no more need for a glass in front of the screen?

Very nice work, due to that i plan one clone too, but have seen the new samsung with PLS-panel:
http://www.samsung.com/uk/business/business-products/business-monitor/professional/LS24A850DW/EN-spec
Due to the fact its only 60x30px bigger (approx), i think i will tune the screen of the display directly. - Hopefully the resulting interpolation works good...

But the touch as a second gimmick sounds very nice Smiley
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profaldo
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« Reply #104 on: November 17, 2013, 02:24:49 PM »

To disable the touchpad - two suggestions / rabbits out of a hat maybe:
1. Is there any software that enables palm rejection and disables the touchpad?

2. IF you are connecting the touchpad to a USB - could there be an on/off switch or button that will cut the power/access of the touchpad to the USB port and allow you to enable/disable the touchpad whenever you want

As I said, two very random thoughts that came to my head. After reading your post even I though on how to combine a resistive touch panel on top of a DIY cintiq.
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