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Author Topic: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!  (Read 14651 times)
cabroon
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« on: December 06, 2012, 06:01:48 AM »

So today I start my build log. 

-Grammar nazis, don´t get mad at me. English is not my native language-

I have been drooling for a cintiq. I found this forum, and I went through most of its posts, absorbing as much knowledge and experience from other members.

I already own an AOC 21.5”  e2243fw monitor, which I bought about six months ago in order to make this build.


I plan to build my tablet following the blueprints from “The Anntiq”, some differences with the monitor size, -The Anntiq used a 23” inch monitor and had some issues with fitting the screen to the tablet.
My build uses the same monitor that they use on the Tabletmod large build, so it has been tried and proof working before.  The dimensions measured on the Simtiq planner show a perfect fit (The tablet being an itsy bit bigger than the screen, so some adjustments should be made with the drivers.) Hopefully I wont run in so much trouble fitting it inside the intuos 4.

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What really inspired me was the approach on The anntiq build, keeping most of the original front cover of the intuos4xl (just cutting for the screen window.) so no modifications or need to dismantle the frontal buttons, displays or touch slide ring. Most of the modifications were made in the back part of the tablet. SO even if I break the back part of it, I can still make a case (wood, aluminum, PVC, but the front part will be kept mostly unaltered.) Knowing that the Anntiq build had little to no jitter after grounding the screen with the tablet was also a big plus.

It worries me the FFC that connects the front and back part of the tablet. I really don´t want to damage that cable, since finding a replacement in my country might prove a bit difficult. So i´m already working on a temporary stand to hold the open tablet during the experimental phase, without fear of pulling and damaging the fcc. More on that later.   

I am decently good with electronics, inventing and building stuff. Also my brother is an electrical engineer that is also very interested and will help me in my proyect with the technical details (if he can find the spare time…)

I placed an order for an intuos 4 XL (745$ us + 16% tax in Mexico... 800something  USD),  I already made the deposit and I just confirmed in the packaging service online page  that my tablet is on it´s way, so there is no turning back now. I´ll be receiving it by Dec 7.
It was a panic induced adquisition, based on the fact that it is impossible to get an inutos3 12x19" in my country and that the Intuos 4 line has been replaced with the intuos5 line which does not comes with an XL model. So I considered my last opportunity to make this build and fulfill my dream of a cintiq. 


So this build will be named the CABROONTIQ (very original right?)

I am really serious about this build, I even came up with an articulated contraption to mount my cabroontinq, since it´s going to be my main monitor for web browsing and working.
I brainstormed long and hard, studied luxo lamps structure and articulations and tried to adapt it to my needs and this is what I came up with.
At the moment this is just a mini cardboard version of what it will become, but it worked better than I imagined.
You can use this as blueprints for your own stand/mount.
Maybe some of you can come with lots of improvements on my design.
Hey... Maybe we can start a new forum topic about DIY monitor stands !!

I´ve always been better showing things graphically than explaining them, so refer to the image in case of doubt.
 
Upright it stands at a confortable height, with a slight tilt upward for ergonomics. Leaves free deskspace for working with keyboard and mouse.
When you want to work on it as a tablet, you just extend it forward and place it almost flat on your desk with a slight angle for better viewing. Ideal measurements might even place it hanging at the edge of your desk, like the cintiq 24hd stand ( which was my inspiration for this). But it would have to be customized to each one´s workplace. The mouse and keyboard have to be put aside.
Also it would have to be fixed to the back edge of the desk with screws or some sort of lock release bolts.
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Still working on giving it some sort of spring or neumatic resistance, so it supports the weight of the screen and the tablet altogether during the vertical to flat transition -estimated weight of the tablet+monitor is 6 kg ... 12 pounds give or less-. . Also working a possible solution with quick release bicicle bolts for locking it in place at an intermediate angle (as the cintiq 24 hd does, allowing a small space underneath it to work with your keyboard).

So I am all in for this, any advice is welcomed, give me some pointers, and mostly ...

Wish me luck!!
Cabroon out.
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bernard
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 02:17:58 PM »

nice drawing!

This looks like it will be an awesome build. Hope for the better!

There are no Intuos5 XL ?  I did not realize that.
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Dikymon
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 03:08:20 PM »

I like the stand idea; bicycle quick release... brilliant Smiley
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 02:17:19 AM »

Hey Cabroon,
Great build, i like the idea for the stand. You got a technical drawing of it already? I think with a spring you should be able to slow it down. The spring should be stretched to the maximum halfway the movement and it should be stretched less at the bottom and the top of the movement. Let me tinker a little bit about it...
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 02:59:32 PM »

Looks good so far, can't wait to see how you get on with the build.
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cabroon
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 07:57:21 PM »

Back with more.
Took some time to post something new, because drivers weren´t working, tablet kept disconnecting and pressure sensitivity didn´t worked.
I installed the latest drivers from wacom, so Tablet is up and running. Yeah, its huge, takes up a lot of desk space, my little bamboo pales in comparison.
I already set the tablet to forced proportions, Might tweak the active area later.
I am going to start the monitor dismantling.
Some pics.
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perfect fit
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And here is the monster.
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cabroon
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 09:29:32 PM »

I found some places that sell springs of different sizes and resistance.
There is also a pneumatic cilinder at home depot used for vertical cabinet doors.
The newest idea That came to mind, is bungee hooked cords used to hold cargo on a car.

I already have 4 or 5 bike bolts. On e of those I used for mi monitor vertical stand.

I dont have any technical drawing, since I didnt had the phisical reference of the tablet. Also I am not sure if my monitor base will be used as a VESA base mount or I will have to do another adaptation.
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cabroon
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 07:52:43 PM »

So I went to an electronics supplier, showed them the pic of the fcc cable (from the anntiq build log http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2185.0;attach=6005;image ) that connects the front buttons of the intuos 4 to the tablet.
I couldn´t find an exact 18 pin match. But I found a 24 pin that I think will get the job done.
Here is a comparison pic:
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To the left is the cable I got, to the right is the fcc cable from the intuos4 xl (image taken from The Anntiq build for research purposes.)
I scaled the image to fit the dimensions (mantaining original proportions) So as you can see they are very similar. Only thing that bothers me is that the intuos terminals (the metal exposed parts of the cable) seem a bit wider.

I request help in order to cut/trim the cable down to only 18 pins. Could it be done? Any suggestion is welcomed.

By the way the cable is 15 cms long, which is just right for me, and it costed about 3 dollars.
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lazy_mosquito
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 11:58:54 PM »

You could use this one:
http://be.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1908552
I bought it myself and it works perfect.
Only check if you need a rev (reverse) or a normal one.
The reverse has his contacts on both ends on the opposite sides. With the normal one the contacts are on the same side (seems logical  Roll Eyes )
Check out all the specifications first (this one has a pitch of 0.5 mm, has 18 ways, is reversed and is 200 mm long.)
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cabroon
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 06:27:08 PM »

Just some random thoughts.
What if you made a portable cintiq? Portable meaning that it has the same size as an intuos M or L and that both the tablet and the monitor are powered via usb from a laptop.

It would suck your laptops batteries dry, but you would only need to plug it on any wall socket.

That wild thought crossed my mind when I found that there are portable monitors powered by usb.

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The other technology available ( new but very expensive) are the OLED screens, which are very very thin (membrane thin) and flexible screens, with amazing contrast, but further investigations revealed some issues with temperature management.
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Screen breakdown here:
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=243

If you could overcome the temperature issues, imagine placing this membrane thin screen over your tablet and instantly turning it into a cintiq!!!


A final idea that I didn´t seem to find in the forum.
Now that I received my intuos4 xl, and considering its massive size, the matte gray active area could be used as a proyection surface for one of those new portable proyectors.

to prevent the glare, and the proyected shadow, the light from the proyector would have to come from the opposite side of yout dominant hand (i tested it with some led flashlights)

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Boy, I wish I was rich to buy all this stuff and try all these ideas.

I hope someone finds the inspiration to give this ideas a try.

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bernard
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 11:24:18 PM »

There a few projector-based cintiq talks (and I think at least one if not more that tried it) in this forum. (the "Projectiq" http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1556.msg10371;topicseen#msg10371)  (The seniortiq  http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1829.0

I remember seeing photos of this, but I can't spot them right this moment, it would require more digging in the forum.
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cabroon
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2012, 07:11:45 AM »

IT IS ALIVE !!!! MWHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sorry about the screaming. I am so excited !!!!

The story so far:
Today I started dismantling the monitor, I followed the tablet mod youtube tutorial to the letter, though, some things I had to figure them out myself.
It was tricky to work with the base partially dissasembled while trying to strip and disconnect the cables from the back of the monitor. 

Some issues with opening the case, since  some of the latches are stronger in som places and I was afraid to break them.

A little difference is that the grounding on the monitor from the video tutorial is attached to the metal structure of the base. In my monitor, the grounding is attached to a metal panel that covers the control board.

Had to gather some balls for cutting the back shielding that houses the led strip. The led strip frame defomred a little, but it was easy to rectify with pliers afterwards.

I highly recommend this monitor, since it resisted my clumsy attemps at dismantling it, even some unexpected pulls and pushes on some wires.

After putting it all back together, I plugged it again and set it over my intuos 4, just to see what happened and VOILA! it worked!!!

Yeah, jitters and all, but it worked!!! no need to dissasemble my tablet!! (not yet at least.)
I am still too excited to measure the finer details such as heigt of pen reading, width of the screen and all that stuff.

I moved my screen around, set my tablet to forced proportions and in a couple minutes I was sketching some stuff!!! still jitters will be a problem.
I had an acrilic cover for flat TVs that I had laying around, 2 or 3 mm thick for a 32 inch tv I put it over my contraption, and it still read preetty good.  Felt tips are mandatory to prevent scratches on the surface.

mandatory pic
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pic breakdown
-at the bottom my intuos4 XL, still intact
-on top of the tablet, a white plastic bag covering it
-on top of the bag is the dissassembled screen, still working after all of the beating
-finally on top of everything is a clear acrylic cover for flat tvs, the circular droplets are transparent rubber cushions to fit over your tv without damaging it.

I took some pictures from the monitor stripping but since it is something already tested and proved before, I felt that posting them added nothing of interest to the forum.

So, about the jitters....
The thing that got most of my attention with the anntiq build is that they grounded the monitor and the tablet together, and it virtually eliminated the jittering. so I am thiking about opening my tablet only with that purpose-

I´ll take some measurements and will post more details later!!!
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cabroon
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 07:19:08 AM »

still working around posting good resolution pics that don´t pass the uploading limit.
 
So same pic, better resolution. [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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erikh
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 09:46:34 PM »

Regarding the USB screens, I was just about to buy an AOC usb display to use with my Intuos 3 wide build. I changed my mind in the store, as I turbo-googled reviews saying the bandwidth of the usb data connection gave a slow response time. Have you used one? It seems like a good idea in theory, but just as long as it doesn't feel slow.

Oh, and I'm intrigued to see how the jittering turns out.. update! 
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cabroon
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 05:56:27 AM »

So Cleaned my desk in order to reduce interference from other devices, cables, etc.

Two electronic engineers checked my build (Bro and best friend are electronic engineers, lucky me!), they even checked the grounding in my house, so far so good.
It boiled down to these two things:
-isolation
-grounding

I´ve been reluctant to crack open my tablet, since I still have faith that I can pull this build without voiding the warranty.

I made the paper stack test and the results are amazing:
Pen Reading height till it starts losing signal -measured from the surface of the plastic cover of the tablet- : 1.5 cms
LCD plus a 3 mm thick acrilic - for protection : 1 cm

So I still have 0.5 cms to hover over the tabet which is quite a decent heigth!!

I had a 2 mm acrilc cover, but because of the wide surface it had to cover, it bended at the middle, pressing over the lcd surface.
A 3mm thick acrilic works way better protecting the screen. only drawback is that it´s difficult to clean and scratches will come at some point.
I will have to replace it with a 3 mm glass.
And parallax has´t even bothered me. Being used to sketch on a bamboo tablet, sketching on screen is a big plus, even if it is still a bit offset.

As I said before, The tabletmod dissasemble video shows that the grounding from the screen ends up at the metal base of it.
The Anntiq build, also kept the metal base for casing the lcd control board, so I am guessing the groundig was also left intact there, which could be one of the reasons why that build had little to no jitter on the first place.

So by recomendation of my advisors, I set the lcd control board back on the base. Mostly only the metallic part, and some plastic cover so the   power/adjustments buttons could be fixed to its original casing.

I also covered the LCD control board with a plastic bag, and after that, I put a layer of aluminum foil over it.
The circuit in the border of the LCD display also received the same treatment with scothc tape and aluminum foil (one layer).
-In the forum topic about jitter I read that for some people a double aluminum layer didn´t make a big difference-

I didnt felt the need to isolate the flat flexible cable that powers the led strip, but if that worked for anyone, please note me and that will be my next step.

Also I read that the aluminum foil isolation also has to be grounded... Still lots of things to do.

So results:
-jitter visibly reduced 50%, more evident on the left and right borders of the screen, and more evident on vertical lines than on horizontal lines. still annoying, but it´s an impovement.
-still random clicks on the left and upper border and the right border of the screen (where the led strip is). No random clicks on the middle.
-eliminated pen dropouts from the left border (previously a continuos trace got broken into little segments)

Took some pics but will post them separatedly along with a ruler traced grid so you can check the progress.

So isolating the FFC of the led strip, and grounding the isolating foil are my next steps.
Advice is welcomed.

Also... Is there a part of the forum dedicated to post the optimal tablet adjustments for a given type of screen? I don´t really want to fiddle around pixel by pixel till my tablet active area fits my screen ratio. Is there a way to transpolate the Simtiq measurements to the wacom tablet drivers? Thanks!
Later!
Cabroon out.
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