test1
September 20, 2017, 06:31:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: You may have to login twice the first time,  but we don't know why - Erm I mean it's a security thing yeah that's it - security.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: The CABROONTIQ build starts!!  (Read 16730 times)
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2012, 06:15:35 AM »

Regarding the USB screens, I was just about to buy an AOC usb display to use with my Intuos 3 wide build. I changed my mind in the store, as I turbo-googled reviews saying the bandwidth of the usb data connection gave a slow response time. Have you used one? It seems like a good idea in theory, but just as long as it doesn't feel slow.

Oh, and I'm intrigued to see how the jittering turns out.. update! 

Sounded like a great idea on paper. Good thing you did a more thorough research than me. It´s expected that the amount of data squeezed through a usb cable has to come with some delay on the image response. Even with the faster usb ports...
Might be interesting to make a side by side test with one of those screens in extended desktop mode moving an open window from one screen to the other back and forth to measure the degree of delay and if it is visually acceptable or not.

If you come to think of it for a moment, almost every cintiq and DIY cintiq has a minimum amount of delay from the moment  you trace something until the line appears on screen. So if you were aiming for portability, it could be worth giving that build  a shot. You would be breaking into new ground with your build. 

By the way, Still fighting with jitter. But I will succeed!!
Cabroon out.
Logged
Dikymon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 41


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2012, 10:09:35 AM »

Another thing regarding USB screens is that they won't be as flexible in regards to supporting Hz tuning.
Logged
Aerendraca
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1067


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2012, 02:40:10 PM »

For what it's worth having a slow response time on a DIY Cintiq should not make the slightest bit of difference unless you intend to play games or watch movies on it too. For drawing purposes you would not notice a response time of for example 30ms (that's 30 one thousandths of a second for a pixel to change state) after all very little changes on the screen when you draw/paint. I'm not sure this factor alone should put you off using one of these screens in a DIY Cintiq build. Plus the Samsung syncmaster LD190 has a refresh rate of 5ms through USB so it can't be that limiting through USB.

Also, I would imagine these screens probably work in the same way as a regular monitor but with the graphics card/processor inside the panel as apposed to being in the computer, which implies additional circuitry to consider.
Logged
sanzoghenzo
New Poster
*
Posts: 14


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2012, 07:15:31 PM »

Hi there,
I'm curious about this USB display thing...
I took a ride on displaylink website to better understand how it works.
basically it's a combination of a video encoder to be installed on the pc and an hardware decoder that sits on the device. They say the codec is optimized to balance CPU availability and USB bandwidth and mantain the best quality possible.
They claim you can watch video and do some casual gamings. of course USB3 and a good CPU/GPU could be useful (WEI score = 4.5 on graphics and overall).

Yiynova already manufactures some displaylink digitizers http://www.yiynova.com/En/products.php?Clsid=13&fid=1
Amazon reviews say that could be a good alternative to cintq, at least on windows world (support for osx is not great).
and they claim 8ms response time...
So it's definitely possible!
Logged
erikh
New Poster
*
Posts: 13


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2012, 09:37:37 PM »

Hmm. Interesting. Very off topic, but still.
I've found the AOC E2251FWu for around 100€, might be worth a gamble. I'm on a quite tight budget though so I'm a bit hesitant to get a "untried" display. I guess someone has to bite the bullet.. Smiley
But the pro's are there; it's super thin, just one usb connection, no physical controllers (seems like all settings are done thru displaylink software). 
If anyone has stumbled upon internal photos of it I'd be happy.
Logged
sanzoghenzo
New Poster
*
Posts: 14


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 01:39:49 AM »

Hmm. Interesting. Very off topic, but still.
Uoops, I realize only now that 30ms is an example and not the actual response time of AOC display (which is 5m), so my offtopic thoughts are pretty useless (sorry about that).
Anyway, from what I read on amazon reviews of that AOC model, I have to correct you about the usb ports: to have the right amount of power (someone states 20W) you have to plug 2 usb ports (especially on a laptop). Plus, you'll need a port for the digitizer. In my case (MacBook pro) I couldn't handle this setup, only a powered usb hub could save me Smiley
Also, someone states that colors are not so good for (photo) editing, and it's better suited for standard office use.
Still, I'm very interested in seeing hou it goes.
Good luck!
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 05:42:51 AM »

Jitter:  have you played with the video frequencies, and all that stuff?
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 06:46:21 AM »

Jitter:  have you played with the video frequencies, and all that stuff?


I work on windows 7, on a sony laptop. with an Nvidia GE force video card, with an AOC as secondary monitor for the Cabroontiq.
so where do I look for video frequencies?
on windows 7 conrtrol panel?
on the Nvidia drivers?
on the AOC setup/drivers?
Please shed some light on that topic.

Does the laptop monitor an the secondary monitor can handle differnt freuqencies at once? or both frequencies are affected?
Do I have to turn off my laptop monitor so the video frequency is used only  on the secondary monitor?

Tomorrow I´ll try grounding the back circuit attached to the monitor, the LED strip and the aluminum foil shield together with the metal base of the monitor. Hope that improves the jitter.
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 07:58:52 AM »

entech powerstrip
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2012, 01:12:18 AM »

Ok, downloaded and installed powerstrip, but haven´t figured it out on how to change the screen refresh rate.
Is there a simple tutorial about powerstrip and how to use it? i don´t want to mess up my video drivers by clicking something that I wasn´t supposed to.

Good news.
I just found out something very interesting.
My tablet has an excellent pen reading heigt (1.5 cms) and that my LCD+acrilyc sandwich width is 0.9-1 cms, leaving me roughly 0.5 cms to hover over.
I removed the acrilyc (3mm) and started doodling directly over the screen, and surprise!! Jitters reduced to 90% on the borders (5-6 pixels), with no random clicks, even close to the led strip. At the center it moves side to side in a swinging motion only 1 or 2 pixels. Yes, my jitter problem is mainly horizontal. No vertical jitter.
So it comes to me as a revelation that pen heigth increases interference-jitter. I should have read other posts about it before. 
Now it makes sense, why most modders open the tablet an cut a hole in order to place the lcd display as close as possible to the digitizer tablet.
 
From previous posts, I know that  the intuos4 front cover is 3mm thick abs plastic, with aditional 4 mm ridges, as stated on the anntiq build and shown on the  Intuos 4 L portable Build pics.             

So if maths are not lying , if I open the tablet and place the screen directly on the digitizer board, I would be reducing 7 mm to my current heigt of the sensor pen reading. Thus reducing jitter (hopefully) close to nothing.

I dont want to crack open my tablet because I don´t wnat to damage the thin FFC connecting the front and the back part.
but if I want to cover my screen with a decent 2-3 mm cristal, I guess there is no other choice.

I´feel I´m so close !!!
Logged
lazy_mosquito
Full Member
***
Posts: 114


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 05:01:26 AM »

just be carefull if you open the tablet. It is the ffc connection between the tablet and the express keys that is vulnerable. Best to leave the tablet upside down when you open it. Just pull off the bottom plate. Then you will have the possibility to disconnect the fcc cable BEFORE you take out the PCB.
I have on the xl board a distance of 18mm without problems and got another 5 mm which is not without flaws but perfect to move the cursor. In my build i have a screen which is 10.5 mm thick on top of that is a glass plate of 3mm and in between is another 1mm space. So everything adds up to 14.5 mm. And still i can use the pen without any jitter, and i can lift the pen about 6mm above the glass surface and it is still reacting with the tablet.
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2012, 06:38:56 AM »

just be carefull if you open the tablet. It is the ffc connection between the tablet and the express keys that is vulnerable. Best to leave the tablet upside down when you open it. Just pull off the bottom plate. Then you will have the possibility to disconnect the fcc cable BEFORE you take out the PCB.


Best advice ever. Made everything easier. Thanks!
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2012, 06:46:22 AM »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ] This is my measurements berfore I opened my tablet. My LCD + an acrylic, roughly 1 cm. (yes, I need another metric tape).
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ] This is my jitter with the LCD over the tablet, without the acrilyc cover. As you can see, the jjitter, the pen dropouts and random clicks are more evident on the edges. Less at the middle section. My jitter  is mainly horizontal. no vertical jitter. That´s why I traced only vertical lines. There is no deformation on horizontal lines.
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2012, 07:50:33 AM »

Here is another pic showing the jitter on the lcd over the tablet, without the acrilyc cover. It visibly reduces the jitter and the pen dropouts. Almost no random clicks. At the center only 1 or 2 pixel jitter but very manageable.
[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

So finally had the balls to open my tablet (thanks to lazy mosquito for the tip of turning it face down).
released the FCC and compared it to the one I bought. Perfect pitch match!!! Only drawback is that i had to cut to the exact number of threads in order for it to work.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Logged
cabroon
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 43


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2012, 07:52:13 AM »


Tried to cut it with a knife, not good. At the moment I didn´t had an exacto knife, and maybe it was better that way.
I sticked them together with scotch tape an with the aid of some magnifying glasses and good lighting, I proceeded to cut them with some sort of straight nail clippers, not curved ones. These ones are like pliers. The tip is shown in the  photo. I had  to strip down the blue plastic backing, because the nail clippers couldn´t cut through them.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!