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Author Topic: Faulty Cintiq screen.. Any ideas on a fix?!....  (Read 28717 times)
wchestnutt
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« on: December 23, 2012, 09:13:08 PM »

Hello guys and gals!

My name is William and have some issues with a cintiq...

I recently received a cintiq 21UX in the post bought form the interweb, and very poorly wrapped. Basically just shoved in a huge empty box! :'( My heart sank when I picked up the box and heard everything rattling around!

so, on first inspection the cintiq screen was dark and half of it purple, much like this photo: http://williamschestnutts.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/broken-wacom/new-forest-20121214-00339/

I then discovered that it was only running in VGA mode, and put it down to a driver issue on my nvidia gtx280.. I backed up to a 3 year old video driver and behold it worked at full brightness and in DVI mode.

Now the half blue screen is still there... some days it completely vanishes after 10 minutes, others it doesn't. If I change the brightness it changes the range of pixels that are affected...  it seems to only be a certain contrast or colour range that is affected by the blue glow as demonstrated in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ke5yYMU3dc&feature=youtu.be

Could this be complete LCD destruction, or more likely a video driver/cable?... Any ideas how easy it is to get to the connections on the main board to have a fiddle on the 21UX?

I have done a test with some colour blocks in case this helps anyone? It seems as though it is the blue doobywhatsit that has broken as the other colours are all OK... (strange that it is only around half of the screen that is affected...?)


http://williamschestnutts.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/broken-wacom/new-forest-20121223-00353/

Now I am getting most of my money back for the cintiq for the sake of the damage, so now just to either use it as it stands (annoying) or find or pay for a fix.. I have prices from wacom which range from £40 for a cable repair, £400 for a video driver board thing, to £800 for a new LCD... NOT what I wan't to pay!


Worst comes to worst I will have to just sell it on for spares, but hopefully can get something out of it....

All the best, William.


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janm
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 11:00:26 PM »



How come you're only getting most of your money back?   

How much are they keeping back?   this would determine if its worth taking the risk and trying to fix yourself.

If it was mine and I had no alternative i'd try to see if an ffc has worked loose. It'd be tricky because some of the screws can be hard to find
and ffc's can be hidden too. If its not this the other stuff can be hard to fix...

Try looking for a guide somewhere on the net.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 11:46:32 PM »

Hi Wchestnutt, welcome!

Interesting problem and truly sad if not fixable, but lets have a go at some diagnostics.

Does changing the resolution of the screen make any difference?
What about refresh rate?
Have you tried a different cable?
When you turned up the brightness in the video what that via software or on the on screen display?
If you swap the cable to a different screen does that screen work normally?
Is the Cintiq plugged into a laptop or a desktop?

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wchestnutt
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 04:26:28 PM »

Hello, Thanks for the replies!

It basically ends up that I am paying £150 for the Cintiq, as it has some functionality I though this was a fair risk, otherwise it was a case of returning it for a full refund. Seeing as I have a couple of projects on the go at the moment and will be able to just about use it as it stands I thought I would give it a shot..

Yeah I was wondering about an ffc... has anyone ever opened one of these? - re they easy enough to get to once you take the back off?... How likely is it that I will break it when I take it apart?... I am pretty good with that kinda thing usually but LCD screens are so delicate I don't want to risk ruining it completely. I searched for someone that had done it before and no luck Sad

Changing the resolution makes no difference to the blue portion, it is related directly to the screen as opposed to PC specific issues or drivers. Cintiq seems to be locked to 60hz so can't change that?... The cable is physically attached to the unit so can't try a different one.. have tried wiggling it around or looking for twists but doesn't make any difference.

I run a dual monitor setup on my PC and the normal screens have no issues whatever, so it is not my graphics card. this blue appears on the cintiq even if it is turned on but not plugged into the PC.

When I turned up the brightness it was using the cintiqs own menu adjustments. I think it does a similar thing when using the computers brightness setting.

Best regards, William



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wchestnutt
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 04:41:48 PM »

This might be of interest...

The issue is definitely intermittent - Yesterday it worked perfectly all day, today it has blue all day. I have just turned it off for a while and when feeling the front of the screen it is warm on the right hand side of the screen, but cool on the left side where the error is. I imagine this is just taht teh right side of the screen is home to a power board or something that generated more heat?!.... Not sure.

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janm
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 01:51:43 AM »


TBH i hav'nt seen one of these open so can't advise. Doing a quick search i can't see any guides either...

One thing look at your DVI connector and on the cintiq see if you can see any bent pins or anything like that.
Also try pinching the DVI cable in different places.

The heat is probably from internal components like you suspect, i doubt its the cause of the problems.

I've destroyed two screens trying to make a DIY cintiq... some of the FFC's are very very fragile, particulary the
traces at the sides of the screens and on the flip out circuits behind the screen.

If you do try to fix it be very very careful, not just taking it apart but also around any of the ribbon cables.

Looking through past posts most people do tend to wreak a screen or two making DIY cintiq's.

having said that...

I'd take a punt and fix it myself for £150 anyday....  I've gone though £450 worth of components already.
If i had to do it all again I would get a 21ux like you've done.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 01:54:47 AM by janm » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 07:42:02 PM »

From the details you posted above you are correct this is not an issue with you computer or graphics card. So this leaves a few possibilities I can think of;

1. The LVDS cable from the LCD controller to the LCD driver is not fully inserted and just needs pushing back in.
2. One of the ribbon cables along the edge of the LCD has come slightly away from the LCD glass, although my gut feeling on this is that this is unlikely as you usually see lines on the screen rather than a change in colour on one side. If this is the case it may not be possible to fix.
3. The VGA/DVI cable has come loose on the inside of the Cintiq and needs pushing back in or resoldering. Having not seen inside one I'm not sure how it will be connected.
4. Might be a power problem, dodgy capacitor perhaps. Should be obvious if this is the case as they often bulge and may leak goop.

I think you need to make a decision as to whether you feel able to take the screen apart. As far as I can see on the net nobody has attempted any kind of repair of mod/hack with a Cintiq and documented it so we are all limited with the information we can provide.
My honest feeling is that you should go for this and try to fix it, the fact that you have seen the screen working makes me think it should be repairable and probably not too difficult, additionally I would love to see some photos of the inside of the Cintiq, who know's you might be able to help us with the fight against jitter!! 
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wchestnutt
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 08:42:12 PM »

Hello!

Thanks for the reply guys! Very useful stuff.

So if I was to try and take it apart I could take a lot of photos fr everyone... I would hate it so much if I ended up busting the screen completely though....

It would cost me around £60 in postage for wacom to investigate the issue themselves and give me a diagnosis so as much as I love fiddling with things a fixing stuff myself I am wondering if it is worth going straight to them...... hmmm

All the best, William.

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Aerendraca
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 08:50:36 PM »

Well William, it's entirely up to you. It would be nice to see the inside of a real Cintiq but I'm not going to bully you into it, you have to do what you feel is right and it sounds like maybe sending it off to Wacom might be the right thing to do in your case.
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wchestnutt
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 09:21:50 PM »

Hello,

I have my brother visiting this week who is an IT expert so I will speak with him and possibly suggest opening it up... If I do this is probably the best time and will take photos for people to see Smiley

Best, William.
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janm
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 10:04:27 PM »

From the details you posted above you are correct this is not an issue with you computer or graphics card. So this leaves a few possibilities I can think of;

1. The LVDS cable from the LCD controller to the LCD driver is not fully inserted and just needs pushing back in.
2. One of the ribbon cables along the edge of the LCD has come slightly away from the LCD glass, although my gut feeling on this is that this is unlikely as you usually see lines on the screen rather than a change in colour on one side. If this is the case it may not be possible to fix.
3. The VGA/DVI cable has come loose on the inside of the Cintiq and needs pushing back in or resoldering. Having not seen inside one I'm not sure how it will be connected.
4. Might be a power problem, dodgy capacitor perhaps. Should be obvious if this is the case as they often bulge and may leak goop.

I think you need to make a decision as to whether you feel able to take the screen apart. As far as I can see on the net nobody has attempted any kind of repair of mod/hack with a Cintiq and documented it so we are all limited with the information we can provide.
My honest feeling is that you should go for this and try to fix it, the fact that you have seen the screen working makes me think it should be repairable and probably not too difficult, additionally I would love to see some photos of the inside of the Cintiq, who know's you might be able to help us with the fight against jitter!! 

My gut feeling is that this is the problem.
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wchestnutt
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 02:24:37 AM »

Hello...


Ok we took it apart tonight and took as many photos as a could... Lighting conditions weren't great but hopefully you can make stuff out...

we fiddled with all the cables and made sure they were seated correctly, and whilst the screen was apart plugged it in and fiddled and poked around using the reset button on the main board to keep the screen booting up to test it..

Unfortunately nothing we tried made any difference to the blue portion of the screen Sad I will post photos tomorrow when I have a chance.

Also I have the make and model number of the LCD screen if anyone was interested?.. It is an NEC unit. and possibly worth noting that every single metal component was fully earthed to each other using copper tape around the perimeter of the unit. Another interesting thing but kinda makes sense is that the big cable coming out of the back of the cintiq ends up plugging straight into the board with a dvi  socket.

Best, William.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 12:32:13 PM »

Wow that was quick!

I'm sorry to hear that you have not cleared up the problem, but something about the behavior of the screen tells me it should be fixable.

I'm sure I can speak for the others on this forum when I say that we would all be interested to know the model number of the panel used, and would also like to see the pictures you have taken. There's a small chance that we might be able to help you further from the images.

What do you think you are going to do with it now?
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wchestnutt
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 01:06:34 PM »

Hello,

I will probably us eit for a bit for some projects and then sell for repairs at some point, I don't think I will sink any more money on it. I will post photos soon Smiley

Best, William
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janm
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 01:31:34 PM »



Its a shame mate...  NEC ips display probably... 
I can't see the pics, have you posted them?
I was certain it was one of the LVDS or other ribbons that might have come out of the connector.

If you decide to sell it and you're near sheffield or birmingham I can buy and collect and give it a try.
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