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Author Topic: Experimenting with the HP 2710p Tablet PC digitizer (SU-12W18A-01X)  (Read 98692 times)
ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2013, 06:10:09 AM »

They are programing it for my panel model. 
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bernard
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« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2013, 06:57:19 AM »

When you have a chance, do you think you could help out with the following (outdated) list of LVDS vendors? You mentionned a couple that I never heard of.

http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:lvdsvendors
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2013, 08:48:59 AM »

Is the waxbee config stored on the teensy? If so adjusting the numbrs here as Bernard suggested might be better than using the wacom software as the tablet will always be set to match the screen even after an OS reinstall, but by using the wacom software you would need to reconfigure. Not really a massive problem though as it takes about 30seconds to setup using the wacom software.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2013, 09:07:12 AM »

Also, referring back to a bit of you post earlier regarding combining power, usb, and vga. This is not likely a good idea i should think for a few reasons:

1. Interference between power, usb and vga
2. 4Amps is probably asking a bit much of the thin wires in a vga cable
3. Chance that you might one day accidently plug the modded cable into a standard monitor with disastrous consequences

I suppose you may be able to find some cable somewhere that has thicker twisted pairs of wires so that you can build a bespoke cable but I don't know of anything that would resolve all of the above issues.

multiple cables isn't that bad anyway.   Wink
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 09:08:49 AM by Aerendraca » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2013, 02:54:50 PM »

Is your board DVI or VGA?

Just use a clean way to attach the wires together, it will at least look cleaner than seeing 3 wires.
Plan your case to hide the connectors.

I know a trick to keep 2 thin wires "close" just by twisting them in a certain way: temporarily attach one end of the wires together. Then hold the loose ends in the air, (one per hand) in a V fashion. Here it goes: twist each cable with your fingers at the same time by rotating them _in the same direction_- like clockwise. The wires will start to tangle (twist on each other) and the V will become a Y. With the distance/tension control the density (make it nice looking). Continue to twist until done.  You can then detach the ends - the wires will hold like one, twisted pair cable.
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bernard
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« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2013, 03:02:20 PM »

I did not meant to change the waxbee config but the numbers (counts / pixels) in the wacom driver.

Of course, the waxbee "config" is stored in the Teensy. It is "injected" in the code just before re-programming the Teensy or generating a .hex file.

Using the Waxbee config is completely doable and yes, it would be independent of the host machine. It is just more annoying to do. I was planning to incorporate a tool to help in that regard but never got to it. Nobody really had to extensively play with this.  

EDIT: The MIN/MAX values of the "slave" and "USB" sides are the numbers to play with in order to achieve a similar effect. Make sure you do not turn on any special mapping (like keeping a square ratio) in the Wacom driver as it will interfere and make the task difficult.  Note: The larger Intuos2 tablets have a "menu bar" at the top which we already need to "skip" (that is why the MIN is not set to 0 ).

I even have a special feature (anchors) to "extend" the reach of the digitizer active area. Everywhere but the edges, the pen is perfectly aligned to the cursor. Near the edges it starts to drift away (does not align). The cursor reaches the side faster than the pen. This is only for when your active area is smaller than the LCD. Not the best situation, but a cool workaround someone on the forum thought about. For side buttons or scroll bars, it works okay.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:10:15 PM by bernard » Logged
ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2013, 07:59:00 PM »

When you have a chance, do you think you could help out with the following (outdated) list of LVDS vendors? You mentionned a couple that I never heard of.

http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:lvdsvendors


Sure thing, these are the vendors I spoke with:

e-qstore:  Contact was Sabrina.  She said they had the right board, but did not have the correct cable for my unit. 
chinatobby2011:  Contact was Kevin.  No support for my unit. 
njytouch:  Already listed.  Contact was Maria.  No support for my unit.
notebookaid:  Contact was Wendy.  They could support my unit, but the kit was $70.  On the plus side it did come with a power adapter.   
wfyb:  Contact name not mentioned.  No support for my unit.  They claim they are in the US so if they have your board maybe shipping is faster/cheaper. 
csmqshop:  Contact was Kevin.  No support for my unit. 
fibica_store:  Contact was Henry.  Support for unit.  Controller kit was $38 after shipping.  It also looked like their board had more input options than notebookaid so I went with these guys. 

I have a feeling that a lot of these are the same company with just different names, but I have no proof of that.  I've also found that you can get a blank board for around $11.  The trouble is programing it and making sure you have the right cable. 

Also, referring back to a bit of you post earlier regarding combining power, usb, and vga. This is not likely a good idea i should think for a few reasons:

1. Interference between power, usb and vga
2. 4Amps is probably asking a bit much of the thin wires in a vga cable
3. Chance that you might one day accidently plug the modded cable into a standard monitor with disastrous consequences

I suppose you may be able to find some cable somewhere that has thicker twisted pairs of wires so that you can build a bespoke cable but I don't know of anything that would resolve all of the above issues.

multiple cables isn't that bad anyway.   Wink

Is D-Sub just a variety of VGA (or vice versa)?  I've asked around and though most of the people I've spoken to think it would work, there are a few hold outs, you fellas included.  Though a number of my hold outs do think it would work if I were to do the power separately, so two cables instead of three.  Though I have been trying to find out what sort of power these cables can support and I've seen numbers at 5A and higher.  I suppose I could do a small test to see if it works.  If it didn't then no big deal I guess. 

Is your board DVI or VGA?
VGA, DVI, and HDMI.  I am not completely sure which one I will use, as I already have two monitors set up on my desktop.  I might end up using HDMI. 

Quote
Just use a clean way to attach the wires together, it will at least look cleaner than seeing 3 wires.
Plan your case to hide the connectors.

I know a trick to keep 2 thin wires "close" just by twisting them in a certain way: temporarily attach one end of the wires together. Then hold the loose ends in the air, (one per hand) in a V fashion. Here it goes: twist each cable with your fingers at the same time by rotating them _in the same direction_- like clockwise. The wires will start to tangle (twist on each other) and the V will become a Y. With the distance/tension control the density (make it nice looking). Continue to twist until done.  You can then detach the ends - the wires will hold like one, twisted pair cable.
Sounds interesting.  Do you have any photo reference of what this looks like?  Another idea was to just shrink tube the three wires together. 

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ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2013, 08:03:21 PM »

Also, the only reason I'd like to try to compact it to one cable is because I want it to be more than just a desktop device, I want it to be something I can move around with, sit on the couch, etc, and I think all that movement is going to cause too many issues with so many cables. 
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bernard
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« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2013, 09:56:12 PM »

it is not the number of cables, it is how each cable can sustain "movement" (frequent sharp bending). VGA cables are the worst for dealing with frequent movement.
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ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2013, 10:13:01 PM »

Is there a cable besides d-sub that might fair better for my idea? 
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bernard
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« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2013, 01:10:50 AM »

Hum. We would need to check how many connections is required. It is really VGA right?  Not DVI? (DVI digital signals can use nice flexible hdmi cables).

You have to count the number of wires and twisted pair wires. VGA signals can pickup noise easily. They always put a metallic foil as part of the shielding. They also use ferrite rings on one or both ends. The high number of wires plus the extra shielding makes VGA cables hardly flexible. Look for quality flexible VGA cables maybe.

The dsub connector is quite bulky compared to slim HDMI connectors.
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ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #86 on: August 23, 2013, 03:17:33 AM »

The LVDS supports HDMI, DVI, and VGA.  I'll need to check what I have free on my video card.  I know I at least have an HDMI port available. 

Another option might be to get a USB to HDMI kit and build that into the tablet case.  Then the only thing going to the case would be USB cords and the power. 

Here is a diagram showing what my intention was with the Dsub.  VGA is 15 pin, USB is 4, and then two for the DC power, so I only need 21 pins (assuming I don't need a second USB connection), the D-Sub seemed like the beefiest cable with the closest amount of pins. 



I don't know if you have seen the cable for the new Cintiq Companion Hybrid, but that's what I am going for. 
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bernard
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« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2013, 04:52:03 AM »

I would drop VGA and stick to digital. DVI-D I think shares the same signals as HDMI-without-sound. There are cheap converter "cables" out there. This would lower your pin count.

USB: you can incorporate a usb hub and thus combine all  USB connections into one USB cable.

I have a USB to DVI and it can lag for fullscreen updates like video or 3D modeling. But it is cool for adding an extra monitor without a video card.

Adding a project box might make the whole thing much more bulky than using the bare 3 connectors.

Not sure about using a dsub 25. This somewhat bulky old connector is, for sure, not the one Wacom is using.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:54:16 AM by bernard » Logged
ThrowingChicken
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« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2013, 07:03:37 AM »

The project box would be desktop side so it doesn't really matter.  I might mount it under my desk and have a connector for the D-Sub (or whatever kind of cable) mounted on the front so I can just plug the tablet in when I want to use it .

And yeah, I'm sure the Wacom cable is proprietary and rather small.  But I still think the large D-Sub connector and cable would be better than a bunch of loose or taped together wires.  But that said if I can find a smaller cable that can do the job then I'm all for that.  The concern really is just interference within the cable between the various signals.  I did find this interesting cable.  One end is the 25 pin d-sub and the other is for some Cisco modem.  Not sure how easy it would be to get one of the female connectors for that end, but if the cable worked then maybe I could track down the modem and remove the connector from it. 

Having trouble figuring out how many pins the DVI-D actually uses.  I know the cable has 18-19 pins but no consensus about how many are being used.  
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 07:57:10 AM by ThrowingChicken » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2013, 10:08:48 AM »

Here's a couple of ideas, the first is to use cat5 cable used for ethernet wiring. The wire is comparably less rigid that standard vga cable and you can transmit well over 10metres, the crux is that there is only enough twisted pairs for the vga so you also need to build one for the usb too. In order to give the appearance of a single cable you could then use braided sleeving to enclose both cables and should stay pretty flexible. The added bonus here is that you could have 2 separate usb connection through one wire, no need for a hub. The same might be possible with dvi, you would need to research that, and bare in mind that long cables means more noise.

The second idea, and one im considering, is to use DVI & USB to M1-DA EVC P&D cable (http://www.projectorshop24.co.uk/adapter-and-splitter/infocus-m1da-to-dvi-d--usb-type-a-adapter-cable/) -Im sure these can be found shorter and cheaper elsewhere.
The only thing is we need to find a female m1-da socket that we could use in the back of the DIY Cintiq, then all that's needed is a bit of soldering.

You can also search for this cable by 'dvi usb projector cable', since that is what it's for.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 10:18:27 AM by Aerendraca » Logged
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