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Question: is possible?  (Voting closed: November 14, 2013, 02:28:54 PM)
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Author Topic: Help me about SU-015-X01 pinout  (Read 11223 times)
worms
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« on: November 13, 2013, 02:28:54 PM »

Hello everybody,

I had a Wacom Digitalizer Unit from a Acer TraverMate p252 (http://images01.olx.rs/ui/9/53/42/1289310520_136355142_1-Slike--lAP-TOP-aCER-tRAVELmATE-252-1289310520.jpg)
This is the photo of controller unit.


Inside the notebook is connected all al the main LCD cable without any reference.
I can't understand how to connet to my serial - usb adapter, anyone can help me?!?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 02:30:28 PM by worms » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 04:10:57 PM »

Not all digitizers are equal even if they almost all have 14 pins. They tend to resemble, so we have gathered quite some information about it.  But if there are more info from your device, we want to integrate that info as well. 

First we have to know is this is a USB or Serial device to start with.

I see wires -- these are the original wires?  Are they connected to the digitizer?  If yes, please carefully report which pin number gets a connected.  You can see the number "1" next to the first pin on the PCB.  Also look at our wiki to make up the names for the pin numbers that are connected.   

http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:penenabled

Can you take a picture of the other side of the cable? Are there any markings in there?
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worms
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 09:45:26 PM »

Hi,

Yes, cable is absolutely original, is connected to pin {1,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
On digitizer there are two chip marked WACOM W8001 JAPAN 0327EU002 and another one marked NEC 078F0034BGK 0324KP001

This is the connector on motherboard


Cable of connector (the brown)


Back of the monitor, the digitizer wires were near the lcd wires (blue). I pulled wires off to try tests direct to serial or usb.


Label on main lcd cable


The model P/N



I also find all the parts from one of my supplier
http://it.eetgroup.com/Guide/m/Acer-TravelMate-250-Series


I find a lot of info, but I can't do anything Sad

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bernard
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 09:56:37 PM »

Does the screen has a "touch" on that device?

Can you also map the wire colors to the numbers?

With connections starting at pin 7 sounds like a serial device.    Pin 1 is Ground if I recall correctly and would normally be "black".  I see lots of red -- often this is for "power".  They often use many wires to spread the amperage "load".

I am not sure to "what" you wanted to connect this to exactly?  A serial to Usb device?  If that is the case, then you need one that is CMOS levels (3.3v)  -- not RS-232 level (+/-12v) nor TTL (5v) levels.     If this is to use Teensy (with or without WaxBee) then you need to add the 1$ 3.3v regulator when getting the Teensy.

Typically the baud rate is 38400  (if not, it is 19200). Always N-8-1 and use a term with hex output (like RealTerm for example).

You might have to put some signals to ground to activate the board, and THAT is the portion that vary from people to people.

If you can still power the laptop up to a state where you know the digitizer "works", it would be advisable to probe all the signals  (is it 3.3v or 0v ?)  -- this would help the tinkering. The idea would then be to "replicate" the levels.
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worms
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 10:19:08 PM »

Does the screen has a "touch" on that device?
Yes, the Acer TravelMate have the native touch.
Its native touch is that Wacom.

Can you also map the wire colors to the numbers?
The wire connecto to digitizer is all brown, you don't see in photo of cable because i cut it before make the photo.

With connections starting at pin 7 sounds like a serial device.    Pin 1 is Ground if I recall correctly and would normally be "black".  I see lots of red -- often this is for "power".  They often use many wires to spread the amperage "load".
what are the connections to make? I read a lot of thread about serial connection but I don't understand the right association between wacom pinout and serial pinout.

I am not sure to "what" you wanted to connect this to exactly?  A serial to Usb device?  If that is the case, then you need one that is CMOS levels (3.3v)  -- not RS-232 level (+/-12v) nor TTL (5v) levels.     If this is to use Teensy (with or without WaxBee) then you need to add the 1$ 3.3v regulator when getting the Teensy.

Typically the baud rate is 38400  (if not, it is 19200). Always N-8-1 and use a term with hex output (like RealTerm for example).

You might have to put some signals to ground to activate the board, and THAT is the portion that vary from people to people.
I have a CP2104 usb-serial converter. http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/usbtouart/Pages/usb-to-uart-bridge.aspx
It could be compatible?!? The seller page describe it as TTL/CMOS compatible.


I'm new about serial stuff and I don't know anything about Realterm or similar.

If you can still power the laptop up to a state where you know the digitizer "works", it would be advisable to probe all the signals  (is it 3.3v or 0v ?)  -- this would help the tinkering. The idea would then be to "replicate" the levels.

Unlucky the notebook is not working anymore Sad
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 11:44:19 PM by worms » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 03:54:08 AM »

First, before buying anything, you are gonna have to tell me what you want to do with this. I still do not understand the "end result".   If you connect a USB/Serial converter like that one, you will then install the drivers and then you will have a "Virtual "COM" port" on your system. And then what?  What are you going to do with it?

As for the pins to connect for serial, it is essentially the TX, RX pins (along with the ground and power) that are mostly important.   Like I said, there might be other things to connect -- and that appeared to vary from one Wacom board to the other. There are not "recipe" that works for everybody.  I would say that often there is nothing to connect to enable it -- and this is the first thing to try out.

TX stands for "Transmission" and RX stands for "Reception".  There are other names like TXD/RXD  (D for Data). The catch here is that you must connect the TX of one device to the RX of the other device.   Below are the wiring. I've put an arrow so you understand the "direction" . As in who is "generating the signal" vs. who is "looking at it".  Get it?

TX ----> RX
RX <---- TX
GND-----GND (ground/negative/0v)
3.3v-----VCC (power/positive/3.3v)

Serial connection have many other signals -- we've identified a couple of them DTR and RTS (Something like Data Transmit Ready and Ready To Send if my memory recall correctly). Typically these you can get away by not connecting them (they should read "high" I believe -- high is near VCC -- or 3.3v in your case -- "low" is near ground or 0v).

The Not-So-Reliable pinout we have is described here: (14 pins connector section)
http://wiki.bongofish.co.uk/doku.php?id=bongofish:penenabled#pins_connector

Since this is electricity and there is high chance of burning the board if you connect the wrong things, always triple check that everything seems ok.  Also, always do baby steps and connect for very short periods of time. Check for chips or parts that become super-hot quickly (bad!!)

Do you have a Multimeter ?  That might come handy.
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bernard
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 04:03:49 AM »

So ALL the wires going to the digitizer are of the same color (brown) and now we cannot make up which one was connected where, right?

The less info we have, the more difficult and risky it becomes.

Are you sure there is a touch device on the screen?  Normally on Wacoms, when you have a touch, there is an additional connector that goes to the touch (typically a small brownish flat cable). The touch sensor is sitting in "front" of the LCD. The pen digitizer sensor is behind the LCD. Because they are not physically together, there is no choice but to have 2 separate connection.  I do not see that connection here.

This could be important information.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 04:17:32 AM by bernard » Logged
bernard
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 04:43:10 AM »

Your device is most likely OK.  I can see that there is a 3v pin and the TXD/RXD pins along with GND (ground).  To be extra safe, only connect the RXD (so that your can receive data from the Wacom) (along with the Ground and, the most "dangerous" one, the 3Volt power).

First connect your board to your PC (USB) to make sure it works. After the drivers are correctly loaded, you should see a "COMx" port (like COM5 for instance) appearing in "Device Manager" under "Communication devices".   Disconnect and reconnect and monitor in Device Manager that the said COMx port appears and disappears.  Try to always connect to the same USB Port so it retains the same COMx number.  Check that all that works fine.

Baby steps -- try the USB just to see that all is "normal" to this moment.

Now you need a serial software like RealTerm or TeraTerm.   Before connecting, install and run TeraTerm (TeraTerm is a bit easier).  RealTerm and TeraTerm are both very awkward software but they support displaying data in "hex mode", which is what we need for this. Else you will see just garbage on the screen.  At least I think TeraTerm has a hex mode option -- it's been ages since I used it for that purpose (I use RealTerm).

I'll let you play with it-- the important settings are :  "Serial Port"  "COMx" (matches your dongle COMx port number), 38400 baud (or 19200 baud as an alternative if 38400 does not work).  N-8-1 -- for "No parity", "8 bit data", "1 stop bit".  Disable all software and hardware "handshake" (like xon/xoff).  Next find the way to display data in hex mode.   Hex is for Hexadecimal -- with digits from 0 to 9 and A to F.  Each "byte" that is received from the serial port is 2 digit hexadecimal code.  When you receive data through the RXD pin, in you would see something like: (random example)

A0 00 23 11 00 23 23 7F 80 00 00 00 00 00

Now to test your USB dongle.  Temporarily connect the TXD and the RXD together -- this will create a "loopback".   It will have the effect of "echoing" all the stuff that is transmitted.  In the "Term", click on the window where you see the cursor and start typing letters.  It should make a difference if you have TXD/RXD wired together or not. (Those "terminal" software have options to turn on/off local echo which would be a "second" echo if this is turned on -- sometimes called "half-duplex" or "full-duplex").

When you see that your dongle works nicely. Next:

Always disconnect it while and performing connections.

I would first connect the grounds together.  Wacom Pin 1 and Pin 14 to your board GND.

Try connecting the dongle to see that it is still all normal. (should not make a difference really).

Next, connect the 3V to pin 13. ** danger ** --- If you have a multimeter with Amps then I would ask that you connect it through the multimeter instaed to measure how much Amps the board is pulling.  Since there are no leds or any indications, that can be a good indication if the board is correctly functioning.  You would see a variance in the reading while moving the pen on the digitizer.  If you do not have a multimeter, then touch everything on the wacom to see if anything is going real hot. -- (this is quick, like within 2 to 5 seconds, unplug quickly if that's the case -- and pray that nothing is broken).  If you happen to have a can of "freeze" you can spray the circuit with it. That can help. If you have a dust buster can, you can do freeze by putting the bottle upside-down and pressing extremely lightly -- a drop of hyper-cold super liquid will get out and instantly freeze whatever it touches -- good for chips that are overheating.

If nothing happens abnormally for like 15 seconds, then unplug and go to the next step:  connect the RXD to the Wacom TX (pin 9) actually, on the wiki, the names are the ones from the external device and not from the Wacom -- so pin 9 is named RXD. (direction from Tablet to Host). The direction is the best indication of which is which.   In other words, connect RXD to RXD Smiley.




« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 04:54:56 AM by bernard » Logged
worms
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 02:50:26 PM »

Thaks a lot.

I test the loopback and it works.
I try to connect to the board (all connections is ok) but I can't receive nothing.

Maybe I broken it testing with no sense or while i disassebled it from pc.
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bernard
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 03:14:39 PM »

No, probably not broken.  Probably you need to "enable" the board with something else -- that's is the part that is difficult to know.

Do you have a multimeter?
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worms
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 04:48:33 PM »

Yes, Arrive 3.3V to pin 13.
1,14 is connected to ground pin.
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bernard
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2013, 07:54:35 PM »

Can you probe the voltage for all the pins (in particular the ones there were connected)

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worms
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 10:37:36 PM »

Can you probe the voltage for all the pins (in particular the ones there were connected)



After a very long weekend I test the pins.

Pin
{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8} = 0 V
{9} = 3,4 V
{10} = 0 V
{11} = 0,05 V
{12,13} = 3,4 V
{14} = 0 V    is GND

there are no pin connected between them except for pin 1 and 14 that are gnd
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bernard
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 11:44:07 PM »

At least we have 1 good news:

Pin 9 is supposed to be high (because this is the default state for a CMOS/TTL UART).

I assume you also connected the power to pin 13 -- else we wouldn't see any voltages anywhere.

Re-setup the proper baud rate etc. Double check with the loopback by shorting the two pins.

Now connect pin 9 and pin 10  and try sending the character * to see if there is any response (even garbarge) from the tablet?  It should normally respond with 11 bytes (hex bytes description here:  Format of Stylus Query Response).

(also try moving the pen like already did)

If there is nothing, here's where the tricky, adventurous part begins:  Cool

------------

First put your pen on a plastic container so it "stands up" (or a bit in diagonal).

Let's try to "ground" pin 12 momentarily.  Pre-solder a wire on pin 12 and while all power while all powered and setup like I just described above, connect it to ground (0v). First try for a split second, then try again for a bit longer time (like a second), and again a bit longer (2 seconds).  At each step immediately check if the wacom chip is hot. (I do not think it will be in this case, but better be safe than sorry). (always check if you have any bytes coming out of the serial terminal as well).

Now we will try to keep it like 5 seconds and move the pen at the same time. Hit the container a couple of times with your arm so it moves a little if you are out of hands.

Normally DTR and CTS (pin 7 and Cool should be "low" for this to work -- they appear to be low already, you could always try to connect them to ground just to be sure and try again, but it shouldn't change anything presumably.

If nothing, then:

Now we will try to pull up pin 11 momentarily.  Pre-solder a wire on pin 11 and while all powered and setup like I just described above, connect it to VCC (3.3v).  First try for a split second, then try again for a bit longer time (like a second), and again a bit longer (2 seconds).  At each step immediately check if the wacom chip is hot. This pin has been quite weird -- also we are not sure of the direction hence it might not be the safest thing to do. Try to move the pen while it is connected. Do this real quick.


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worms
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 02:00:26 PM »

Ooooook... Yes, pin 13 is VCC 3.3V

now we have an output.
After have connect the pin 11 to gnd for a couple of second the chip have be reset.
Any hot chip.

Now with start config I have an output like that
Code:
0000001CE000E00000E01C1C0000001CE000E00000E01C1C0000001CE000E00000E01C1C0000001C
E000E00000E01C1C0000001CE000E00000E01C1C0000001CE000E00000E01CFC0000001CE000001C
000000E01CFC0000001CE000001C000000E01CFC0000001CE000001C000000E01CFC0000001CE000
001C000000E01CFC0000001CE000001C000000E01CFC0000001CE000001C000000E01CFC0000001C
E000001C000000E01CFC0000001CE000001C000000E01C001C0000E0E000001C0000E01C001C0000
E0E000001C0000E01C001C0000E0E000001C0000E01C1CFC0000E0E0000000000000E01C1CFC0000
E0E0000000000000E01C1CFC0000E0E0000000000000E01CE0001C00FC001C0000000000E01CE000
1C00FC001C0000000000E01CE0001C00FC001C0000000000E01C1C1C1C0000001C001C0000E01C1C
1C1C0000001C001C0000E01C1C1C1C0000001C001C0000E01C1C1C1C0000001C001C0000E01CFC1C
00001C00E00000E01CFC1C00001C00E00000E01CFC1C00001C00E00000E01CFC1C00001C00E00000
001CFC1C00001C00E00000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00
001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0
000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E01CFC1C00001C00E0000000E0
1CFC1C00001C00E0000000001CFCFC000000FC0000E00000    


I have to reset it every time that I connect to USB.
But even with this output if I send any character through TXD I haven't any reply
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 02:05:47 PM by worms » Logged
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