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Author Topic: How to go about it?  (Read 4986 times)
utkidestiny
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« on: November 22, 2014, 12:29:24 AM »

Hi guys,

I am new to building anything and english is not my strongest language so please be patient with me.

I want to build my own Cintiq, but i am rather confused on how to go about doing it. I want to build one which is about 1920 x 1080 FullHD and is pretty accurate. If possible something which works with an HDMI cable as my laptop only has an HDMI port. I dont really know if its possible to build one like the 13" HD cintiq. Cause i would love to build something like that, or maybe a bit bigger. Has anyone tried building something like that? also I have noticed most people have used Intuos 4's and Intuos 4 XL for an HD version.. Can we use any of the newer models? Its hard to get an Intuos 4 XL here. I dont mind getting a Used Intuous4 medium as long as it helps me getting FULL HD. I also dont really understand what type of screen to use or go about doing it. So if someone has done something similar can you please state how and what all parts you have used. I dont really want to try experimenting with different stuff as it is my first try and i would really like to make something which other people have been successfull with doing just to motivate me to create something like that.

Thank you guys for listening, please any type of comment or information will be greatly appreciated.

also i cant find a post new topic , only found a post new poll so sorry if i made a mistake there.
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utkidestiny
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 10:36:05 AM »

Hi guys, time to update this post.

After spending a lot of time, going about the site everyday, reading many peoples comments, going over various builds, i can kind of see how everyone goes about it.

And now instead of asking like a general overview i will ask the main questions which are bugging me. i will be atempting to make one and am trying to get my hands on a tablet. A few questions for people who have already build theres.

1) What is the major difference between an Intuos 3 and an Intuos 4 /5 build. Does the pressure sensitivity really play an important part cause from what all i have read, the extra pressure is overkill. Getting an Intuos 3 seems more reasonable in terms of pricing, but i am trying to get an Intuos 4 or 5 Large from an auction. Will know about how that goes in a few days. I am able to get an Intuos 4 Medium but i want to hold off a bit before confirming that, in case i can get the large or if you all can answer my question regarding the 3 vs 4.
Also am i correct to assume Intuos 5 will behave similarly to 4 as they similar specs?



2) Monitors, seeing a lot of people have used monitors and some have just used screen replacements. Though i couldnt find much about HD monitors/Screens. I need one which i can use with an HDMI as my laptop only has HDMI. So what is really considered when choosing a screen? From what i noticed most were single circuit ones. I read something to do with the EM and heat emissions.

Right now i am a big fan of bumhee34's builds and the amount of information i was able to absorb from Aerendraca posts. Most is still a bit confusing but stuff is making some sense.  
I am looking something like the Retique in case i can get a Medium, but in case and if luckily i am able to get a large, i want to go for something like  a 15.6 inch one.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 10:40:03 AM by utkidestiny » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 01:36:35 PM »

Hi utkidestiny,

I have not owned the Intuos 3 but I do own the Intuos 2 and 4, and I can tell you that in terms of how the 2 and 4 function they appear to 'feel' more or less the same however, the real differences for me come from the characteristics of the pen; I have the original grip pen with the I2 which seems quite big, pressure light and spongy when I compare it to the slim firmer feeling classic pen that I use with the I4. Thing is that if you spend time with one more than the other you become accustomed to how it feels, you almost certainly find people who praise a particular Wacom device over any that they have tried because the have spent time with it.

Another way of looking at you decision is to consider that all of the Wacom Intuos range were at one point a flagship professional tool, just because they've been superseded by a newer model doesn't mean that they have become useless. Wacom have done a good job of producing the electronics inside these tablets and a result (bar a couple of stress issues with USB sockets on the more recent ranges) they tend to troop on regardless.

All sounds positive right? Well, there is a caveat to all this. Wacom appear to be dropping software support for older models of graphics tablet which I believe recently put pay to the Intuos 2, so if you plan to use your DI Cintiq for a while and also wish to stay current with your choice of operating system and art software, chances are you should probably go for the newest Intuos version you can. With that said there may be some die hard users out there that are working on 3rd party drivers?

When I have some more time I will look into HDMI screens and see what's out there to recommend.
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utkidestiny
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 06:52:30 PM »

Thanx  Aerendraca.
Hope you had a Merry Christmas.
After reading your last post, i checked out and found an Intuos 3 A4. I wasnt really a fan of the pen as i have a Bamboo, and normally use a 21inch Cintiq at college. it was exactly as you mentioned, it was quite big but eventually we will get used to it. Though luckily i was able to find an Intuos 4 Large PTK-840 at a really good price. Waiting for it to arrive.

also, I noticed that the screen size that will actually fit inside the working area is about 15.4".
I read in one of your posts that you would be trying to use a 15.6 and seeing if you would be able to adjust it to calibrate properly with the tablet. though i think you meant that for your serentiq 2, which was switched to a mac display right?

So would a 13.3" Screen work?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:21:57 PM by utkidestiny » Logged
DaBotz
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 03:16:12 PM »

Intuo 2 vs Intuos 4: feel wise, they are almost the same (I have a slightly jittery build on a I2 XL, 12x18, 22", and one on a Intuos 4 L, 15.4").


The I4 2048 pressure levels are really overkill, not so much so its greater spatial accuracy.

It doesn't make much difference when working with high levels of zoom, but it is pretty visible when you draw "zooming out".
At low zoom, I2 lines are a lot more "scaly", even if Lazy Nezumi - a stroke smoothing program - is is action full force.

The I3 should have the same kind of accuracy of the I4, so it would be a good choice.

Less bucks for nearly the same experience  of the I4.

What Aerendraca notes about drivers is true, so newer is going to last longer. Unless you are a Gimp and Linux fans, where anything from wacom is supported by a third party driver (that may stop to work with Intuos 1 and 2, damn it).

On the I2 up side, a guy in ebay is selling a 12"x18" for 100 $ - with shipping -, right these days (less than half what I paid for mine).

Screen choice, it is a matter of tastes... if you do not feel "experimental", go for a good screen that has been used with success on the tablet you want.

Single circuits are preferred, because they do not require to extend small pitch flexible printed cables, the way most double circuits do. Unless you have access to some ffc extenders supplier, it is a daunting task.

Personally, bigger is better - 22" forever (OK, 21.5 full HD).

Anyway, truly portable bulds are relatively rare (almost every one uses three cables), so one can as well go for a well built "studio" machine. Or buy the YiYnova MSP10U (the U is important).

A screen smaller than the tablet active area simplifies a bit things for calibration and use but, having both my builds screens somewhat biggers than the tablet, I didn't found it to be a big problem.

Need to reach a mouse every once in a while on the I2, not even that on the I4.

(At least, for me organizing well the desktop space hugely helped things... once you can drag scroll lines, the bother of having a sightly bigger screen is minimal - also, on a 22", most  point and click comes easier with a mouse anyway... that screen is huge).

13.3" should about right, for a 9x12 tablet (intuos 2 & 3 A4). Intuos 4 L are 16:10 format, 15"....

You can use the famous Simtiq Planner, made by Bernard, to decide which screen.

The preference for 16:9 screens is, simply, that most modern screens use that format.

I like 16:10, but almost any led-backlight, IPS screen is going to be 16:9.




« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 03:36:05 PM by DaBotz » Logged

The most incredible artist of... Barbanza?
utkidestiny
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 05:00:49 PM »

Thanx a lot for your reply.

I already my hands on an Intuos 4 Large ptk - 840. which should be arriving here soon.

I skimmed through almost every build in the Succesfull build section to check if there are any screen recoms or something.
Though i have been thinking a lot and i have made a decisions that even if its kind of experimental, i dont mind trying something new as long as people can help me out with it. Mentally i am prepared that i will be breaking a few screens which just trying to Strip the display which brings me to a bunch of stuff which i am about to type out.

Most of the builds i saw are LCD screens with ccFL, the LEd ones are mainly the apple one sor big ones like the 21inchs.

As you have mentioned Dabotz single circut are the best but its hard for me to point out which screen is single circut or not.
from what all i have read, laptop screen replacements are easier to strip and use than opening up a display and its way more cost efficient.
In terms of looks, it dosnt really matter to me how it looks like as long as it solves its purpose as the looks can be worked on later. I do have access to a 3d printer, cnc machine and lazer cutter right next door at my college. my simple aim is to get the screen working on top of the tablet with less jitter, once that part is successfully done, then i will try to cut the cover to fit the screen inside(this will depend on the jitters or the screen though as i dont want to cut it incase i will be changing the screen right off the bat).

Screens i have been looking at are 13.3 FHD screens and 14inch Screens (mainly the full HD ones used by alienware 14 or Dell Inspiron) though i have found it really hard to find a controller for that. A lot of questions have been bugging me, for example how do i strip the LED screen. There arnt really many helpful links here or online regarding for the purpose i want to use. The screens looks like this.

The 15.6 ones or the ones most people have used look like this.


while the ones i am looking at look like this.


I have no idea of to strip these to such a level that there will not be any interference or what all will even cause the interferance except the metal boarders. And i am really hoping someone here can help me.

the 13.3 inch screen i saw was this,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-ASPIRE-S7-391-SERIES-13-3-Panel-IPS-WUXGA-Full-HD-SLIM-LCD-Display-Screen-/121399458416?pt=US_Laptop_Screens_LCD_Panels&hash=item1c43f8ba70

though hoping someone can suggest a better one maybe at a better price and a controller as i do know i may need more than one monitor as i may break it.
This is going to be my first DIY project so i am not really sure what all i will need for it (i do have access to a lot of tools though if needed from my college)  but i do want to attempt to make it. It really surprises me every time i read that how many people know so much about led stripping or discuss stuff,shielding etc as if its general knowledge and i feel like an idiot attempting something i can make no sense of to a good extend, but i still want to attempt it. Though i have learned a lot while going through peoples posts.
 
One more thing on a side note, I am unable to get a password sent to my email for forgotten password as i use 3 computers, luckily i have the password stored on 1 computer but sadly this is the one i least use. So would be awesome if i can access this account on the other ones too.

 Also most successful builds with the Ptk-840 have been 15.4 inchs half hds, i considered following one of those at first, but Zbrush needs a higher resolution to display the entire interface, and i am really ok with having parts i wont use on the tablet, as long as i can use the whole screen.  So it will be a 13.3 or a 14 Full Hd screen if possible.
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DaBotz
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 01:51:03 PM »

I4 PT840? How nostalgic. It was my first build (but the AUO BW154 etc... is a lousy scvreen).

The main problem I see in the 15.5" is that you'll have to extend the ffc driving the led assembly at the bottom.

Removing the excess of metal in the led strip heat-sinker is not going to be much difficult, probably, however you may think about getting it out, temporarily remove the led strip (tricky) and bend the metal back, so that it does not stand in the way but still does sink the heat.  

The EDP screen looks a lot, but a lot like the LP116WH2 that I used in my failed Huion H610 attempt.

Pro: the control board is out of the way, no need to extend the led strip diving ffc.

Tricky part: if it is a bigger relative of my LP,  the Led strip is in the bottom of the screen (connected on the left), and the metal frame down there is is also used as the light box unit and to support the TCON board.

To get rid of the metal in the screen area you must likely disassemble the screen, remove the led strip, cut as much metal as you can away, leaving enough just enough to drive the light and support the board.

Trickiest part: unless I get it wrong, the LP116WH2 data lines acted as a very odd set of toric lenses for my pen signal (as well as a lot of false clicks).

On the x axis, in some parts the movement of the pen accelerated as much as 2x its effective movement. If this is a strict relative of that, and the same happens at the PTK frquency, it's not going to  be usable (in my opinion).

Most trickiest part of them all: I suspect that the driver board that shipped with that same screen, supplied by one chinatobby2012 in ebay, is what kill my laptop graphic board (i.e. killed my laptop) - but I live in an electric storms challenged area, so I may be wrong.

As always, If you go with that screen, before doing any strip, get a video controller for it and do a "dry run" test: place the screen on top of the PTK, and try do some lines in any directions (if you can, using a desktop... a basic graphic board for a desktop is just 50 $, a burnt one in a laptop is a dead laptop).

Look carefully at what happens.    

As that screen do not have a metal plate in its bsck, it should be very indicative of what you should expect in your build - note, false clicks are usually cured by grounding together the ground of the screen and the tablet, so are not so worrysome.

If you suspect something like the aforementioned lens effect and deem it's going to persist, you may always resell it with just a minor loss (or a gain).


« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 04:04:31 PM by DaBotz » Logged

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utkidestiny
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 06:04:17 PM »

So after waiting so long, the tablet finally arrived.
So the control board being out of the way is a good thing, so i am guessing all i need to try to do is open up the display from the back, remove the led without breaking it and trying to bend the metal. I assume its way more complicated than that though.
Are there any links to cuting an LED or metal part of an LED?
Now the data lines part, anyway of knowing how or why it is like that? Like looking at panel look or something to understand what will be the best type of screen?
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DaBotz
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 03:19:26 PM »

Let te led trip untouched, it should be possible to simply get it off from the frame without damaging it.

Anyway, that screeen doesn't have frame in most of its back, so you can do some preliminary tests without modifying it.

Before try and modding it, get a controller for it and make some "dry" test, by placing it on the tablet and simply watch how it goes.

It is a good idea to try first and mod later, on one side because you can't return - or resell - a modded panel, on a second side because, should the controller be badly programmed or non functioning, you'd have less possible sources of error to sort out...

(the first controller I bought was badly programmed but, as I already had stripped my panel, I had the doubt I had damaged it... the panel was and still is fine, the first controller was  - simply - programmed for a completely different screen).

Also, you can appreciate how much heat does your panel really create...

After using it a while, you may well realize that heat dispersion is not going to be an issue, and simply go and cut out the part of the frame that stands in the way of the pen signal, instead of bending the thing.

Don't rush things, and assume that - if you need to exert some force - you are probably doing something wrong.

As for the data lines... it is one possibility to watch for.   Anyway, it was on a completely different tablet and a different size, LG_Philips screen.

Nothing is certain, so... get the screen, a controller, test the screen and the controller works, test the sceen on top the tablet, the pen should be usable in its middle, try to see how it goes. False clicks usually can be ameliorated through grounding together tablet and screen, and using ferrites to choke common mode currents, so they should not be too worrysome.

Try to daw some lines, with w ruler, and see how they come out.


If diagonal lines comes out very distorced, then it does make the trockI mentioned...




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