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Author Topic: It pains me that I simply didn't have the funds!  (Read 1705 times)
Aerendraca
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« on: August 21, 2015, 07:54:13 AM »

Just witnessed a Cintiq 24 HD (in need of a simple screen replacement) sell for under £250!!! I simply didn't have enough spare cash at this time of the month to invest; oh how it hurts!

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wacom-Cintiq-24HD-/321830774226?nav=WATCHING_ENDED
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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2015, 07:54:17 PM »

This does hurt  Embarrassed
WANNAHAVE!
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 09:40:20 PM »

I know right. What's worse is I could probably now just about afford it - could, but probably shouldn't what with saving for a house and all. Smiley
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chulian
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 02:14:36 PM »

Hello,

i just found this forum while desperately searching the web for some information regarding my cintiq 24HD. Since you talk about a "simple screen replacement" i wonder how easily this is acomplished. I just bought a cintiq second hand an while it was working fine when i picked it up, it won't work now that I have it at my place. The screen comes on for about one second after I switch it on, but then it goes dark and only accasionaly lights back up again, when I fiddle withe the monitor resolution settings whithin my mac preferences. Even the OSD menu (while clearly working during the one second the screen lights up) won't show. After searching the web for some time, i am most certain it has to do with the power supply whithin the screen itself (backlights, inverter board ...) since the tablet part of the cintiq is responsive and works fine.. But I don't have the knowledge nor the skill to open it up and check if there is something loose or obviously broken.
Wacom wants me to send it in before they can make an educated guess in regards to the problem.
If you have any tips or suggestions or in some way could ease my mind Smiley i would very much appreciate your input.
Looking foreward to your replies
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 03:41:13 PM by chulian » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2016, 12:01:55 AM »

Welcome chulian!

There's two that problem be ok list them by likelihood.

The backlight - which I think in the case of the 24HD is LED - has a fault, possibly an LED in the chain has died. The backlight circuitry monitors the current draw of the LEDs and if it spots something is wrong it shuts the power down to protect itself. The best way to check this is to see if you can spot any dark spots along the top or bottom edge of the screen; this can sometimes be easier by placing a piece of white paper over the screen and filming it flash on, then you can review the footage and see. You can get replacement led strips but even sourcing them is likely to be a task in itself, and installing them wont be a walk in the park either.
In the case that the screen has CCFL backlighting the same thing applies; If one tube has died then the circuit protection will kick in as before.
In either case above, replacing the whole screen would be the best way to go, and because it's a large 24" IPS panel it will probably set you back the best part of around £150 I would think. If you are careful and you take lots of photos of how things fit together you should be able to tear down your cintiq and replace the screen fairly easily.

The other thing it could be is, as you suggested, that the backlight inverter has a fault and cannot stabalize after it's initial strike. In my opinion this is less likely than a fault with the backlight itself as inverters are mostly made of robust passive components, whereas LEDs are semiconductors and semiconductors are inherently less resilient; too much heat can cause semiconductors to allow too much current to pass killing the semiconductor for example. If the inverter is part of the power supply then you will need to source a new power supply, although in the cintiq I would imagine this is a separate board as I believe the 24hd has an external power brick.

CCFL bulbs typically have shorter lifetimes than LEDs and do naturally die, although you would normally notice a bulb as it dies as the screen dims gradually and develops a slightly pink hue. Of course if the the tablet was dropped a ccfl bulb could crack resulting in the same issue. Replacement CCFLs can be purchased but would require serious dexterity, patience, and skill to undertake the repair.

This problem could also be caused by a fault with the power supply itself, and in this case my best would be faulty electrolytic capacitors. These are usually pretty easy to spot as the tops will probably be domed as apposed to flat, and/or the may have liquid oozing from their bases. Do a google image search to see what I mean. If this is the case then these would normally be easy and cheap to fix by someone with some basic soldering skills in a computer monitor, however for the case where the power supply is an external brick you would need to buy a replacement. This type of fault could present itself as you describe.

Generally speaking Wacom are being straight with you, the problem could be any one of these things and without inspection it's tricky to say exactly.
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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 01:26:18 AM »

Like Aerendraca I would guess that the power supply is faulty (bad caps).
This is a problem many screens have and I fixed about 5 PC monitors and 1 TV with this problem.
I never had a dead backlight and swapping the caps of the psu is pretty easy and cheap.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 10:14:56 AM »

Trouble is XD that I believe the psu is an external brick and they tend to be heat sealed, replacement is the best option here if it is the power supply. I'm not so convinced though, I've seen both led and ccfl backlights die, and inverters too.

Although, I've just reread that it stays on for a second and you can mess with the OSD. That does sound like too long for it to be a backlight fault, inverters usually shutdown far quicker than that. You could try replacing the power supply initially and seeing if that fixes the problem.

This does appear to be quite a problem with the 24hd, with some people suggesting it was pulled from market because of hardware issues. Ultimately its just a screen placed on a digitizer that requires a power supply, a dvi/DP converter board, a backlight driver inverter, and a TFT panel. The digitizer should function normally without power applied as it runs off usb power, so the fault is somewhere in the TFT chain.
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chulian
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 10:50:51 AM »

Hey guys,
thank you for this very comprehensive and quick answer!
I am not a tech guy and what I would like to find out, is whether someone with a skillset like yourselves would be able to sort out the problem by taking the cintiq apart. And as I understand, you wouldn't have a problem with exchanging the whole screen, right? I would then go and try to find someone in my area (i live in germany by the way) who fixes monitors and TVs and such for a living. As I fear Wacom would not solder anything inside it. I don't have an estimate yet, but this (as I gather from different forums) could easily set me back more then I initially paid for the thing. I have the feeling that Wacom is making a huge fuss about its hardware being delicate and highly sophisticated and I am starting to suspect that this is a big part of their marketing. In the end, its all just components arranged in a certain order, right?
Another thing: I already took out all the screws on the backcover and it seems that the case is glued together along the edges in some way. It doesn't pop off like one would assume. Also Wacom, at some point in its forum, talks about the 24 being sealed to prevent dust getting in. I am afraid of breaking some crucial part, if I use force to break it open. As I would suspect a technician, who is not used to working with cintiqs might be.
I am not sure I get the whole power supply thing. Could it be, that an inverter inside the power brick is broken or inside the tablet on a seperate board or both?
As far as i can see, the brick doesn't show any irregularities, the little green LED comes on and it doesn't get hot or anything.
I am very curious as to what I would see, when i opened up the cintiq itself. Will a capacitator jump out at me and scream "replace me" or would I have to dig through thousends of layers of delicate tiny cables and connectors and metal shields ... while the static of my hand is killing the rest of the tablet and dust is happily settling inside the screen.
Well, I don't want to bore you. I am sure you have other things to do but maybe you could point me in a direction of something ore someone where I can find more basic information about the cintiqs inner workings.
Thanks a lot!!!!
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chulian
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 10:54:29 AM »

Trouble is XD that I believe the psu is an external brick and they tend to be heat sealed, replacement is the best option here if it is the power supply. I'm not so convinced though, I've seen both led and ccfl backlights die, and inverters too.

Although, I've just reread that it stays on for a second and you can mess with the OSD. That does sound like too long for it to be a backlight fault, inverters usually shutdown far quicker than that. You could try replacing the power supply initially and seeing if that fixes the problem.

This does appear to be quite a problem with the 24hd, with some people suggesting it was pulled from market because of hardware issues. Ultimately its just a screen placed on a digitizer that requires a power supply, a dvi/DP converter board, a backlight driver inverter, and a TFT panel. The digitizer should function normally without power applied as it runs off usb power, so the fault is somewhere in the TFT chain.
Yes, the digitizer does work fine. I have read in different posts, that people switched the power brick to no avail. I could try to find a fellow artist who would lend me another brick to test it out

And the screen does come on again, when I change resolutions for it in the system preferences on the mac. But no longer than a split second
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 11:02:21 AM by chulian » Logged
Aerendraca
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2016, 01:22:20 PM »

Are you using a DVI cable to connect to the computer? I read that some people have changed these for new ones which seemed to have solved the problem - although in all honesty im not sure how. Worth a go though.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2016, 01:27:37 PM »

By the way the inverter will be close to the tft panel and not in the power brick. If people have tried new power supplies then it is probably the inverter or backlight that is faulty - my guess now is the inverter has a fault.

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chulian
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2016, 01:35:09 PM »

I have tried all sorts of cables and adapters. I also changed the DVi Cable for a brand new one. Nothing worked.
I noticed, that the screen stays lit a little bit longer (maybe 2 seconds) when I left it switched off for a day or two. I could at least bring up the OSD menu which is nearly impossible after i switched it off and on again.
Do you have any hints regarding taking apart the cintiq? Have i missed something? Does the display come off from the front?
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 PM »

Having never taken a Cintiq apart my only advice would be to take your time, be careful - especially around the thin flexible flat cables, take lots of photos as you go so you have some reference, and catalogue where you removed any screws from so that you don't lose any and you can easily remember where they went.

You could take a look online for any videos where someone may have stripped back any of the Cintiq range, as there is likely to be similarities in the way that they have been constructed.

Feel free to take photos of your progress, post them here, and ask for advice on what to do next if you find yourself in sticky situation. One thing that I for one would like to know, is what panel the 24HD actually uses given that it claims a 92%gamut.

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chulian
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2016, 10:45:49 PM »

Thanks again for all your advice and the time you have taken with my problem. I will call the tech department of the university here in town. They seem to have a workshop and maybe we can work something out, because I dont feel comfortable opening the cintiq up by myself after all the sorcery I have seen looking through the builds on this forum. I probably don't have the proper tools anyway Wink
If I get a chance I will take pictures during the process and post them here. I will also let you know if I find out what model the screen is.
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