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Author Topic: 4k and 40" another way back Drawing machine ..oh my..  (Read 5109 times)
XDjackieXD
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2015, 08:39:31 AM »

The calcomps... have pressure styluses?Huh I thought those were pure CAD machines...

The 24x36 would cover a 40" with an inch to spare on sides, and 4 inches on height... the build seems to have resonably more "air" around the screen on the vertical... ... ...

That stylus in the photo looks like'wn Intuos2, to me...

there are pressure sensitive wireless pens for the calcomps but the pen in the picture does really look like an intuos2 one...
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DaBotz
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2015, 11:59:46 AM »

"there are pressure sensitive wireless pens for the calcomps but the pen in the picture does really look like an intuos2 one..."

Eh, as always, the battle between Wild Dreams

* Wild Dreams.jpg (160.69 KB. 2628x788 - viewed 280 times.)



and the achievable reality

* Achievable Reality.jpg (57.94 KB. 914x814 - viewed 284 times.)



rages on.

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The most incredible artist of... Barbanza?
XDjackieXD
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2015, 12:58:34 PM »

I don't know how accurate the calcomp digitizers are.
Does anyone here have experience with them?
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thatcomicsguy
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2015, 12:08:43 AM »

The only Calcomp board I used was back in the 90's; a little 10" (I think) "Drawing Slate" which ate watch batteries.  It worked, had pressure and I got a fair bit of Photoshop work done, but there was enough delay between motion input and response to make it feel a bit muddy.  Switching to a Wacom Graphire was a huge step up; like turning the lights on in a dim room.  But that was a long time ago...

In any case, the stylus in the photo doesn't look entirely Calcompy...


Calcomp stylus.

Wireless versions are apparently available.

One thing I HAVE tried, though, is running two Penabled boards side by side.

It works, but there has to be at least an inch of space (dead zone) between the boards or, not infrequently, the cursor freezes when you cross it until you pull the stylus out of range and put it back again.  I don't think a twin-board Wacom system under a single monitor, especially with the dead zone running right down the center of the screen, would be a particularly workable solution.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 12:38:29 AM by thatcomicsguy » Logged
DaBotz
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2015, 03:20:39 AM »

In fact, my "double" scheme leaves  at least 5 inches between the active areas, maybe they would be needed more... if my guesses are right,  5" are needed simply for laying the pcbs side to side (maybe it is possible, maybe it is not without adding some more space...no idea).

It doesn't look too cool but, in a way, it would be like having two Builds side by side, each one the size of a  vertical 22"..

One of the two would be for drawing, the other to place auxiliary windows like toolboxes, layers, brush settings and the like. (more or less, my set-up drawing comics on pqper... an A3 paper sheet vertical, on one side, the rest of the table to hold stuff).

I, too, think that two separate screens would be a better "metaphore", the gap-in-screen not being very intuitive, but that is opinable...

O, well, I hope the mistery will be revealed soon, as for now I feel that the suspence is killing me.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 03:22:51 AM by DaBotz » Logged

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woodguy32
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2015, 04:17:26 AM »

Well...Did I wake up Bongofish?  I figure why go small when you can go super BIG..

I am still in second cancer battle mode..Its been a long hard fight, 30 plus chemo , plus many radiation sessions..But an experimental injected radiation .. (yea injected while every in the room where in special lead suits..) I am still kicking and Build all sorts of Odd builds including a couple of payback drawing machines..

adding more stuff and having fun with details..like laying on some gold leaf..pretty..



and getting it setup to run..  works Awesome with Yosemite and even El Capitan 10.11...even windows 8.1 thru bootcamp..(having some driver conflicts with windows 10.. but everyone having issues with the windows tablet driver conflicts..Dont use windows Art apps anyway, just play games, so not an issue with me ....)



Also makes a monster Muzak machine.. Freakin Awesome and plans to expand it for my Muzak making..



 Ok Ok.. enough with this crap..you want to know how?..LOL

Well you are particle correct..nobody makes a large pressure sensitive device...the whole screen is Penable...yes the pen can work the entire 40" 4K surface.. but its not fully pressure sensitive just where the wacoms are located...  got 2 wacoms in there..and a special pen build that looks like the airbrush with an IR setup.. think of a whiteboard..  I been experimenting in IR stuff with my slot car racing stuff.. for timinig and that kind of stuff...



So what next on this build is Touch screen..yea..really.. with the same IR idea.... it may not be on this one.. but on the BIG 50 " 4K screen...

Funny thing, since I been using this thing it is looking smaller.. you get used to the size..and then you look at a 27" screen and realize how the heck you work on that thing...but still having all the workspace in 4k with a ton of windows open is AWESOME..

Will post more and a vid soon..just good days and bad days..

 Thanks wood
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2015, 09:49:00 AM »

Ahh ok, so the aluminium bezel around the to edge, I presume, is the IR surface. Actually we should have spotted that as your other builds had no such bezel. Clever idea though using both technologies together. Do they play nicely together?
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DaBotz
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2015, 02:15:38 PM »

"Well you are particle correct..nobody makes a large pressure sensitive device...."

I checked the brochure for the Calcomp DrawingBoard VI... they have a Pressure Pen, and Tilt and Pressure Data can be enabled, so I suppose it does have pressure (and tilt), min height the pen is recognized seems to be some 12 mm over the board... however, all of this for a modicum cost of 1600 pounds sterling - for a 20X24 - and 2600 for a 36x48...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 12:00:51 AM by DaBotz » Logged

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thatcomicsguy
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2015, 07:23:37 AM »

I suppose having two drawing hot-spots side by side is something you could get used to.  -Actual drawing is pretty tight anyway with a lot of artists, so if you arranged things with that in mind, it probably wouldn't hurt.

I wonder...

How tough would it be to make your own digitizer board at the scale you wanted?  An Intuos board is just a big Celtic Knot of flat traces, and that shouldn't be outside the realm of DIYing.  So if you made your own board and connected it to the electronics pulled from an existing Intuos...

Or.., I wonder how tough it would be to reverse engineer the control chipset from one of those new Wacom 27" screens?  It's just a collection of control chips and nickel and dime parts.  I wonder if an Arduino or Raspberry Pi could be programmed to replicate some of those custom chips..?

Sounds like it could be a deep time hole kind of project, but within the realm of DIYers.
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Aerendraca
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2015, 10:23:24 AM »

I should think you probably could do it with some kind of mcu like a Pic or Atmel chip, but I would definately imagine it consuming alot of time. I've looked at tons of the digitizer controllers and it seems to me each one breaks down to have three main parts:

The controller mcu which is the brains, the communication chip which deals with serial/USB, and a whole bunch of multiplexer chips that increase the i/o of the mcu.

Something like an Arduino mega might be enough to act as mcu and communication, so you'd then have to get a bunch of multiplexers and resistors etc (see datasheet). So we have a theoretical digitizer, what about the pen?

Do you make your own or do you try and talk to the Wacom pen? Perhaps the pen is stupid and it is the digitizer that requires the pen is to 'activate'? If so you could write in some code to the DIY digitizer mcu to ignore the fist 16bits of data from the pen - or however many bits it should be.

Could be an interesting little project to build a small scale one first and see what happens. Hmm.
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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2015, 08:39:16 PM »

You can't do something with wacom accuracy using IR... but something like a rough touchscreen should be possible (cameras from wiimotes!)
Keep in mind though that such touchscreens are very sensitive against things like sunlight or other ir sources...

Scaling up an intuos board is not really possible (would change the resonance frequency) and adding lines would require more inputs on wacom's custom chips...
building something that works like wacom's chip is possible but requires a lot of ADCs and DACs (basically about every 8 lines need one pair of them if you switch around or for easier software each line on the board which costs A LOT if you don't use FPAAs (FPGA + programmable analog circuits) or custom made chips (wacom)...
Wacom's patents are a good starting point for research though.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 08:43:09 PM by XDjackieXD » Logged
DaBotz
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2016, 06:59:53 PM »

There are not only the Wacom's patents, to look for... for example, Huion has a patent for using "scaled coils" of wire as antennas, each coil activating a certain number of antenna lines  in one direction.

Each coil should be laid so that its "antennas" are interspersed with the other, forming a coding scheme, so that it could be recognized in which subset of the sensor the pen is simply by comparing the signal relative strengths one against each other.

It seems an approachable idea, as it doesn't require to print hyper-sized PCBs (it requires just to drill a lot of holes into a suitable base and to be very diligent in laying the wires, as they must all be the same length - to reduce variations in impedance - and to be as straight as possible) and to require less input-outputs on enlargement ( if, indeed, the coils relative strengths can "natively" encode the area block where the pen is, and you just need to compute the reordered power values to fine tuning the position, doubling a size only requires one additional coil with its analysis circuitry, and doubling the coils' length).
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