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Author Topic: Fujitsu T904 based build - 2K 13" screen - digitizer connector?  (Read 2937 times)
sinusoid
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« on: March 05, 2016, 06:28:26 PM »

Hi guys,

Some time ago Fujitsu released a very nice machine, the T904.
It came with a great screen, the Sharp LQ133T1JW17, which is an 2560 x 1440 IPS panel, and has a Wacom digitizer of course.
The panel uses a  4-lane 40 pin DP for a connector, that makes it pretty straightforward to connect to anything display-wise.

I found one of these screens sold by a local laptop repair shop, and would like to get my hands on one of these to attempt a conversion to a standalone drawing tablet.

However, they are expensive, and I don't know what kind of connector I may expect from the Wacom electronics.
What typical connectors do those digitizers use?
What issues driver-side can I run into when converting it to USB? It's gonna run on Linux mostly, since I use Krita, so a lot of things should be... troubleshootable  Cheesy

The digitizer that goes with it is marked as follows:
SU8C-13H12AS-01X
CP646290-01
01A
I can't find any info on these though. T904 is a rare and expensive machine that has recently been discontinued.

Is there a chance I'll end up with an inoperable digitizer if I decide to grab one of those screens?
Someone push me over the edge, cause I want one of these badly, but wouldn't like to end up with a pretty expensive brick.
I'm not afraid of hardcore de/soldering or etching my own flex cables, as long as I know I can get this thing working in a finite amount of time.
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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 10:14:59 PM »

the wacom connector is the same for all wacom boards and carries either usb or serial data.
The digitizer needs 3.3V so for usb you need a 3.3V regulator and a usb cable you want to sacrifice ^^
If it is serial you need either a teensy with waxbee or a usb to ttl (3.3V) converter (only works with Linux iirc as the windows wacom drivers don't support serial tablets anymore) (and a 3.3V supply of course).
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sinusoid
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2016, 04:31:04 PM »

@XDjackieXD
Ha, that's good news! So i guess I'm on the safe side with this one Smiley

What got me worried now, though, is that I can't see the digitizer electronics anywhere on the screen assembly. I'm used to that nice fat PCB sitting on the back of the screen, that's how it looks like on most cases I've seen, like on the X61t below:

* 001.jpg (17.74 KB. 339x306 - viewed 171 times.)


However, on the T904 it looks a bit different. The digitizer tape disappears inside a PCB assembly, and I can't identify any components that are there.
I've looked through the whole interwebs for more detailed pictures, and these are the only ones I've found (including Japanese sites):

This is the connector area, only one connector is visible. This is most probably the inverter and DP connector:

* 002.jpg (31.83 KB. 800x157 - viewed 167 times.)


That's how the whole screen looks like, no sign of the digitizer electronics. I think it may reside in that PCB on the left-bottom - from the designs I've seen, the engineers are desperate to get the electronics as close to the digitizer as possible, to process the data coming from it before any noise sets in. It is an opinion based on observation, though. What do you think?

* 003.jpg (55.74 KB. 706x519 - viewed 166 times.)


This is the closeup of the motherboard with the screen connected. Standard: wireless antennas, and two connector cables diving right into the motherboard. I've seen this on several laptops. I can't seem to find any traces of the digitizer being a part of the motherboard. The screwdriver obscures a docking port connector.

* 004.jpg (90.35 KB. 447x586 - viewed 154 times.)


This is the whole board without the port obscured. Still can't identify the wacom electronics.

* 005.jpg (297.63 KB. 1477x607 - viewed 174 times.)


Do you think it would be safe to assume that the digitizer electronics reside near the screen, on the bottom-left part?

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sinusoid
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2016, 11:12:09 PM »

This project is too much risk compared to potential benefits, I'm abandoning it.
Besides, 13 inch panoramic screens are not really good for drawing.

@XDjackieXD, thanks for the help!
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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2016, 11:42:39 PM »

This project is too much risk compared to potential benefits, I'm abandoning it.
Besides, 13 inch panoramic screens are not really good for drawing.

@XDjackieXD, thanks for the help!
OK.
The digitizer electronics most likely were the green PCB where the white digitizer leads to (left to the eDP connector).
A wild guess would be that the connector is on the bottom of the green PCB and that it is a USB digitizer.
I imagine getting a adapter board and the required connector/cables and backlight controller way harder than getting the pinout of the wacom board if it really is eDP (very few produce such adapters and have a look at this http://www.latentlaboratories.com/megapixy/ story to understand why it is hard. This are very high speed signals...)
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sinusoid
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 02:09:24 AM »

It is eDP, I found a datasheet for one of those panels. I planned to desolder the connector, and etch a custom part to wire directly into the pins.
Thanks for that link! I haven't seen that one, though I've seen these other projects listed in his log here: http://www.latentlaboratories.com/blog/2015/3/22/megapixy-part-2-hello-ipad

What kills it for me is the size. 13 inch panoramic has less space to draw on than my current x61t, which is 4:5 I believe. It also has quite a lot of a bezel.

I'll be trying to go with something custom later, I'll write how that went Smiley
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thatcomicsguy
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 10:42:29 AM »

My guess is that the digitizer layer and its associated board would be found under that silver foil in image #3.  You'd need to peel that up.

But yeah, it's a shame these screens are so small.  13" at 16:9 or whatever wide-screen format it is, is certainly not an ideal canvas size.  Though, that's what Wacom chose to put on it's portable "Companion" devices.  -I think they just don't want people to settle down with a nice 15" 3:2 tablet PC and realize that's good enough and forego purchasing a studio 22" or 27" monster Cintiq.

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XDjackieXD
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2016, 04:51:38 PM »

My guess is that the digitizer layer and its associated board would be found under that silver foil in image #3.  You'd need to peel that up.
No the silver foil is part of the digitizer. the corresponding PCB is the green PCB below it (see the white flex cable to it? it looks exactly like a digitizer I have laying around).
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Ertew
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 10:18:22 PM »

As far as I know, laptop motherboards have only one or two connectors (plus many coaxial for antennas).
First is for LCD, digitizer and sometimes inverter, second for accessories like webcam, buttons, light sensor and sometimes inverter.
You have 3 connectors at MoBo and 3 cables (004.jpg), perhaps the smallest connector on the right may be for digitizer, but it's strange for me.

Please look at my attachment.
1. is simple to guess, 2. is obviously the digitizer sensor covered with shielding. 4 should be PCB with all Wacom chips and 3. connecting them together.
5. goes directly from LCD PCB to LCD glass. It can be signal for Wacom, touch or just LED backlight. I guess last option.
Please look closer on white part number 4. It may be cable for camera, fingerprint sensor, buttons or anything. I guess that it comes directly into Wacom digitizer, but your photos don't have enougth resolution to approve that.


* 005.jpg (94.6 KB, 706x519 - viewed 174 times.)
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Ertew
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 10:23:09 PM »

Btw, try to register account here:
http://www.panelook.com/LQ133T1JW17_SHARP_13.3_LCM_parameter_24640.html
and download right datshit or gogle for 'LQ133T1JW02 PDF' - this may be similar screen.
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Pesho
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 11:06:04 PM »

My guess is that the digitizer layer and its associated board would be found under that silver foil in image #3.  You'd need to peel that up.

But yeah, it's a shame these screens are so small.  13" at 16:9 or whatever wide-screen format it is, is certainly not an ideal canvas size.  Though, that's what Wacom chose to put on it's portable "Companion" devices.  -I think they just don't want people to settle down with a nice 15" 3:2 tablet PC and realize that's good enough and forego purchasing a studio 22" or 27" monster Cintiq.



From what i've seen, Wacom just design their products according to whatever the more common format is at the time. Companies like Apple can afford to have custom screens with wacky resolutions and aspect ratios, but Wacom only make digitizers. Not sure if you've noticed, but 4:3 are somewhat rare nowadays - if you do an advanced search on panelook.com, you will find only one panel that's 12-14'' large, 4:3 and with a resolution higher than 1024x768. In fact, seems like there is only one such panel that was ever used in a tablet - the BOE HV121P01 featured in only the most expensive IBM X61T's. With a resolution of 1400x1050, which is pretty impressive for 2006... Besides, artists will buy whatever they make, it's not like they have much of a choice when it comes to screen tablets Undecided Yeah there  are a few "clone-ish" products like the Hanvon SenTIP (copying the 12WX) and now UC-Logic's Artisul (similar to the 13HD), but they don't seem to compete well at all and support for their drivers is questionable.

I'm very curious about this T904 screen, looks like it features a newer generation of digitizer and the LCD panel is very fancy. I looked at Fujitsu's T902 and it features a similar screen, but the digitizer (SU6C-13H04AS-01X) has a more familiar PCB and connector at the back.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 11:20:47 PM by Pesho » Logged
sinusoid
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 04:04:28 PM »

@Pesho,
Yeah, these were famous for the digitizer quality. I think the pen was metal, too, or at least pretty sturdy.
T902 has a nice thread over at notebookcheck... or was it notebookreview? Has industry animators standing by it as a work tool, refusing to update with newer, nerfed generation. Twice. (T906, T935).
That ought to change with the Companion, and, what, Vaio Z tablet. And iPad Pro. Which accidentally uses a 4:5 screen afaik.

Anyway, I'll be using a ThinkPad X61T screen instead. The nicer variant Wink. Those things are rad, if somewhat old, and the digitizer is workable. Passed the initial tests, now waiting for lvds connector.
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Pesho
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2016, 12:22:18 PM »

@sinusoid

Beware of the "bubble" issue with these X61T SXGA+ screens, there was a manufacturing defect where the adhesive they used to secure the glass ontop of the LCD would give out and form bubbles with time. If that happens, it can be repaired if you remove the glass with a heatgun and thin cord like it's done for smartphones, but the procedure is still a big hassle. X60T screens use a sheet of polycarbonate instead of glass as a drawing surface and dont have that issue.

I'm curious how this new generation of digitizer performs. Like is the pen more responsive than the serial ones perhaps?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 12:33:17 PM by Pesho » Logged
sinusoid
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 10:24:17 AM »

@Pesho,
I love that bug! It makes the IPS panels easy to identify, and a lot of people sell these puppies for next to nothing, because they think the screens are damaged.

The issue here is that the ccfl inverter melts the glue. Glue itself is awesome, you can almost butthead those screens and it absorbs the impact.

The responsiveness if fine by me. Not as good as Intuos3 up, but with my style of drawing it's not much of an issue.

I will have to wire it out to USB somehow, that might prove to be difficult.
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beanhead
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 09:59:50 PM »

Hi guys,

Some time ago Fujitsu released a very nice machine, the T904.
It came with a great screen, the Sharp LQ133T1JW17, which is an 2560 x 1440 IPS panel, and has a Wacom digitizer of course.
The panel uses a  4-lane 40 pin DP for a connector, that makes it pretty straightforward to connect to anything display-wise.

I found one of these screens sold by a local laptop repair shop, and would like to get my hands on one of these to attempt a conversion to a standalone drawing tablet.

However, they are expensive, and I don't know what kind of connector I may expect from the Wacom electronics.
What typical connectors do those digitizers use?
What issues driver-side can I run into when converting it to USB? It's gonna run on Linux mostly, since I use Krita, so a lot of things should be... troubleshootable  Cheesy

The digitizer that goes with it is marked as follows:
SU8C-13H12AS-01X
CP646290-01
01A
I can't find any info on these though. T904 is a rare and expensive machine that has recently been discontinued.

Is there a chance I'll end up with an inoperable digitizer if I decide to grab one of those screens?
Someone push me over the edge, cause I want one of these badly, but wouldn't like to end up with a pretty expensive brick.
I'm not afraid of hardcore de/soldering or etching my own flex cables, as long as I know I can get this thing working in a finite amount of time.


Hey, sorry to butt in like this, but may I ask where you found this screen for sale, and if it's still in stock? I have a T904 with a faulty screen (seems like a light problem) and have been trying desperately to find a replacement with almost no luck. I'd really appreciate it, thank you.
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