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Author Topic: ThinkPad's EMR pen and Wacom's UD tablet  (Read 1022 times)
DD
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« on: January 14, 2018, 08:00:52 PM »


* x41t_pen.jpg (87.07 KB. 640x486 - viewed 90 times.)



Having read that ThinkPad's EMR pens are compatible with Wacom UD tablets. I bought a cheap one (7 USD Shocked) that was advertised as for using with X41T to try. It turns out it somewhat works with my UD-1212-R. It's recognised fine, tilt is also good. But the problem is the pressure is way too sensitive that it's impossible to use even with the help from Tablet Pressure Curve Tool.

I know the difference between having no pressure support at all vs the pressure is there but the dynamic range is so narrow that it is like beyond normal human's ability to control. This pen falls into the latter.

I'm not sure if the one I've got is faulty or it's just not fully compatible with my tablet. Has anyone tried these pens with a UD tablet?

PS. My (very) old Wacom's pens work as usual.


« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:21:07 PM by DD » Logged
Pesho
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 10:18:09 AM »

Quote
tilt is also good.

X41T pens have tilt? Wow i had no idea, the X61T ones dont have it. It also appears the X41T pen has two buttons instead of 1 - do they work?
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DaBotz
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 04:55:56 PM »

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tilt is also good.

X41T pens have tilt? Wow i had no idea, the X61T ones dont have it. It also appears the X41T pen has two buttons instead of 1 - do they work?

Tilt is not detected by the pen, I think, but rather by the tablet so, if the tablet sees the pen at all and it has Tilt detection (the UD have it) it seems reasonable.

Also, I kind of remember having read somewhere of some TabletPC device that suddenly "gained" tilt detection after a firmware upgrade - it is entirely possible that all the various "TabletPcs" are really spawns of the UD hardware, "mutilated" in firmware to preserve the uniqueness of features of the top of the line Intuoses.

Commercially, it makes sense to reuse a older design, updated to exploit modern components in order to cost less but not requiring more than a simple testing of the assembled product, than developing a really different one, and it is used very often - in almost every field...


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DD
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 06:25:07 PM »

X41T pens have tilt? Wow i had no idea, the X61T ones dont have it. It also appears the X41T pen has two buttons instead of 1 - do they work?

I can't say that for all X41T's pens but this one has it (like DaBotz said, it probably depends on the tablet rather than the pen itself). By the way, the seller says, "it's not the original accessories of IBM laptop,this is substitute articles!".

You mentioned X61T pens, do you use the pens with a UD tablet? Would like to know if pressure works properly with a UD.
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Pesho
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2018, 11:35:47 AM »

You mentioned X61T pens, do you use the pens with a UD tablet? Would like to know if pressure works properly with a UD.

No, i don't have any UD tablets, only TabletPC digitizers (SU-xxx) salvaged from laptops. I just found it interesting that the X41T pens have two buttons and tilt while the X61T ones (which are supposed to be newer) don't. There are very few tabletPC pens with two buttons, it's only these and some Fujitsu ones that i'm aware of. The Cintiq 15/17/18X pens (UP-911) work there too, but they're ridiculously expensive.

About the sensitive pressure - i've had a similar issue when trying a Bamboo One pen on a Volito 1 tablet. Both are supposedly FP-series but the bamboo pen is so touchy that it does random clicks while hovering even from just breathing on it. In linux there is a "threshold" parameter in the driver where you can determine the minimum pressure that constitutes a click. It helped for the most part, but it was pretty obvious that the pen just isn't 100% compatible. I've also tested the same FP-series pen on a tabletPC digitizer and while it detects the pen position, it recognizes the tip as an eraser and doesn't register clicks or pressure. I could actually get it to detect clicks and pressure if i placed my finger over the pen's PCB traces to vary the resistance (or is it capacitance, not sure what those pens are designed to look for...).

What i take from all of this is that while the technology is the same between product lines, Wacom likes to vary the logic slightly each time for unknown reasons.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 11:37:40 AM by Pesho » Logged
Ertew
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 01:06:30 AM »

There are tree types of EMR pens on the market. Plus Wacom changes main resonance frequency for EMC issues, radio frequency usage and maybe to cut backward compatibility.

Analog Wacom pens have LC circuit. Coil somehow detects pressure - IMHO compressing cell's core changes inductance and shifts resonance frequency. Capacitor are divided into standard SMD part and trimer part. This allows to fine-tune resonance frequency. I think that tablet detects resonance frequency while hovering pen and that freq. is temporary stored as "zero pressure" freq. Hence pens can be coarse tuned and tablet doesn't care much about that.
I think that resonance frequency also indicates button status and/or eraser. Buttons adds extra capacitors (and trimmers) to the LC circuit hence shifts oscillation freq.

Different analog pens (i purchased few "galaxy note" pens from china just for fun) uses two parts coil. One part have winding and stationary core (as in Wacom pens). Second part is just a extra piece of coil core (no winding) that can be pushed towards main coil. This changes inductance and detects pressure.
My pens can be used as nice point&click devices for ISDv4 TabletPC digitizer. Pressure sensitivity seems work but curve is really strange, making this really useless. The pen is OK only for navigating through GUI, much better than my finger Smiley
Important notice. In that pens, tip moves about 1mm by pressing pen to tablet surface. In Wacom pens, tip doesn't move at all, just react to pressure, like pencil.

Last type I know, but never played with them should be called "digitalized" pens. As far as I read available information, that pens have same LC circuit for pressure sensitivity but also have digital chips that sends own ID number through coil to tablet. This allows tablet to detect different types of pen and assign different settings for each pen. I'm not sure how the buttons works in that type of pens. They can be handled by chip (digital way) or by switched capacitors (analog way).


Quote
tilt is also good.
X41T pens have tilt? Wow i had no idea, the X61T ones dont have it. It also appears the X41T pen has two buttons instead of 1 - do they work?
Tilt is not detected by the pen, I think, but rather by the tablet so, if the tablet sees the pen at all and it has Tilt detection (the UD have it) it seems reasonable.
Yep, tilt must be a digitizer (tablet) thing. Maybe construction of a pen plays role in that but pen is not the key.
BTW, i heard that some tablets detects and reports distance of hovering above the surface. It's true or just a speculation?
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DD
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 07:15:21 PM »

BTW, i heard that some tablets detects and reports distance of hovering above the surface. It's true or just a speculation?

There is a setting called "Reading Height" in TabletMagic's settings. The default seems to be 8mm+. I don't remember what other option(s) is.


* tabletmagic.jpg (82.32 KB. 668x605 - viewed 50 times.)


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