Bongofish
November 19, 2017, 01:08:38 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: You can attach photos hosted by the forum rather than using an external image hosting site, this means they will stay forever and not disappear after a year or two.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Screen larger than sensor?  (Read 13822 times)
AndreZX
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 412


Why buy today what you could build tomorrow?


View Profile
« on: October 19, 2007, 08:30:35 PM »

Hey folks,

I know there have been a lot of people discussing using monitors that were larger than the sensor size (e.g. a 17" screen on a 12x12 Wacom), but has anyone actually completed a build this way?

If so, how annoying was it to work with? How do you personally work around it?

I'm looking at using a 22" screen (which would be about 11.66"x18.66") on a 12x18 Wacom, and I'm debating.
Should I go with the 22" and use a workaround to access the last 2/3 inch of screen space, or should I give up hope on the 22" and use a 20.1" instead?

I'm thinking that I want to stick with the 22" screen, and map the display area to the wacom 2 different ways. I'll line up the right edges of the screen and the sensor so that they're aligned on the right side. Then I'll map the right 17" of the sensor to the right 17" of the screen, 1 to 1. Then I'll map the remaining inch at the left side of the sensor to the remaining 1.66 inches on the left side of the screen. The cursor won't line up horizontally in the second section, but it should absolutely be useable for the limited amount of use that that end of the screen should see. Does that make sense?

I really don't want to have to stop to use a mouse for the last section of screen space, and this workaround seems usable to me. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Logged
Drewid
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2285


wielder of electric crayons


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 09:04:17 PM »

The only person to use and oversized screen is Fl0s macbook.
The stretched section thing is an interesting piece of lateral thinking, that might work brilliantly.
Logged

Games work site:  Drewnorthcott.co.uk
Personal site: Bongofish.co.uk
AndreZX
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 412


Why buy today what you could build tomorrow?


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2007, 09:32:39 PM »

Thanks for the tip, Drew.

I would imagine I could test this pretty easily once I get my 15 incher up and running. I'll just play around with the mapping in that and re-create the scenario on a smaller scale and see if it's something I could live with.
Logged
threedprof
New Poster
*
Posts: 31


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 02:45:44 AM »

i realize this thread is old but would like to revisit it since i'm thinking about building a "cintiq" tablet.  instead of using a 22" and falling short on filling out the sensor grid could you use a 23"?
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 04:40:44 AM »

There is another thread about this (will try to look for it).  Essentially if you have an "older" wacom you can do the special mapping to "stretch" the edges so everything is covered -- (you are just "progressively misaligned" near the edges). I say older because older wacom drivers allows to map multiple rectangular areas onto the *same* monitor. Something not possible with recent drivers alas.
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 05:04:50 AM »

ok found the thread:

http://forum.bongofish.co.uk/index.php?topic=1512.msg9876#msg9876

In short: Intuos2 (or older high-end wacom boards, like the UD-* series for example) supports what is called "Advanced Mapping" which allows multiple mapping of the tablet onto the same monitor.  Intuos3 and later do not support it. That "advanced mapping" option simply disappeared. Quite annoying.

Take a look at the picture in the following page of the thread for a visual example of a mapping.
Logged
Drewid
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2285


wielder of electric crayons


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 11:28:45 PM »

I wonder how hard it would be to write a driver.
Logged

Games work site:  Drewnorthcott.co.uk
Personal site: Bongofish.co.uk
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 04:20:27 AM »

This crossed my mind already -- not a small effort unfortunately. 

I am currently investigating (in my rare spare time) if I could actually "hook" (i.e. highjack) a WinTab implementation (Windows tablet drivers) to actually "re-map" screen coordinates (to do the 2:1 stretch on the edges).  If anyone is interested, we could start a thread (or a wiki page?).

Logged
LurkinAroundFerIdeas
New Poster
*
Posts: 2


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 08:56:15 PM »

I'm a noob but have been lurking.  I've tried to learn enough to feel like I can join in.

Board member two7unsuited has apparently gone commercial, but has successful builds with larger screens than sensors.  He said about an earlier build:

"Wacom Intous 3 9x12   USED $246
Acer S211HL bd 21.5-Inch Widescreen Ultra-Slim LED Display     NEW $138
Fellowes Office Suites Premium Flat Panel Monitor Arm (8033801) NEW(DISCONTINUED)$34

I think I may be the only one, but I do DIY Cintiqs differently than everyone else. I use a screen that is much larger than the tablet, so that only the area in the middle of the screen is active. I do this for several reasons and believe strongly that this is the way to go."

Does anyone know how he uses smaller sensors than screens?  Bernard said that you can't advance map on newer (Intuos3) tablets.
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 10:06:59 PM »

You can have a smaller tablet if you wish. It just means that you cannot access all of the screen, only the center (or whichever area you placed the tablet underneath).

The Advanced Mapping thingy using older drivers is a "trick" to reach the sides when the tablet is slightly smaller than the screen. Not practical when the tablet is way too small.

Note: this special mapping trick can also be done within WaxBee with the "anchors" feature (if you converted an old Serial or ADB tablet).

Logged
Keifer
New Poster
*
Posts: 14



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 05:48:26 PM »

Hello everyone!!! Nice to see that the DIY is still popular around here!

Just wanted to post a bit of info and hopefully get a solution here.

I have a Cintiq 15x which has backlights that have dimmed over time. So my solution was take out the sensor and toss it in to a 19 inch monitor and map the sensor location. The install worked like a charm! Samtiq (samsung cintiq) in the house! but.... I cant get the mapping thing in the new drivers and the old ones dont trick it to thinking its a compatible one with that driver. I am going nuts here! I tried the waxbee thing but seems like it doesn't detect it.

So just a run down. Cintiq 15x is 15 inches across, Samsung syncmaster 193p is 19 inches across. Both are 4:3. Cant calibrate because the cosshair is off the cintiq sensor. Cant resize the screen because the samsung has a auto resize feature.

Any ideas?? Any help would be appreciated! really want this to work and dont want to have to rip back apart!

Thanks everyone!

Keifer
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 02:09:52 AM »

Cintiq 15x -- Is the connection Serial or USB (the manual seem to talk about both)?  

You have a sensor that is much smaller than the LCD screen -- is this intended? (you won't be able to reach the edges with your pen).

You said you "tried" the WaxBee thing?  I assume you tried connecting the serial port. How did you do that physically?

If you know the serial protocol for this model (which is PL-550 if I recall correctly), we might see if it resemble one that is already in WaxBee and pick that one (maybe with minor modifications).   With WaxBee, you can do a special "Anchor" mapping which can allow you to have a perfect alignment in the center while being able to reach all the way to the edges for clicking buttons or menus (with the pen being unaligned in that region since you have to stay within the sensor area).

EDIT: I am not 100% sure, but it looks like PL-550's serial port uses "Wacom Protocol 4". Something WaxBee supports. It would be a matter of trying it a bit more to see what is required to make it work. If you really you were able to physically hook it up to a Teensy, then we are almost there!

EDIT2: I saw some driver that tries to auto-detect the tablet and looks for the letters "PL". In WaxBee, it will yield a "Tablet Unsupported" in "Debug mode".

Here the code that does this:

Code:
               // For now, only supports this "rigid" format:
                //
                // "~#UD-1212-R00 V1.5-4" (ends with /r)


                if(buffer[2] == 'U')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_ULTRAPAD;
                }
                else if(buffer[2] == 'K')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED; // ARTPADII is with ROM 1.3
                }
                else if(buffer[2] == 'C')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_PENPARTNER;
                }
                else
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;
                }

                if(buffer[15] != '1')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;
                }

                if(buffer[17] == '2')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_2;
                else if(buffer[17] == '3')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_3;
                else if(buffer[17] == '4')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_4;
                else if(buffer[17] == '5')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_5;
                else
                        romVersion = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;

                if(romVersion == ROM_VERSION_1_3 && buffer[2] == 'K')
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_ARTPADII;

...I can modify it to look for "P" (as in PL-550) and then we can add a new template for your tablet. Hopefully the rest will work, else I would need to hunt for some linux driver source code that supports PL-550 and see what they do special there.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:25:59 AM by bernard » Logged
Keifer
New Poster
*
Posts: 14



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 04:56:31 AM »

Cintiq 15x -- Is the connection Serial or USB (the manual seem to talk about both)?  

You have a sensor that is much smaller than the LCD screen -- is this intended? (you won't be able to reach the edges with your pen).

You said you "tried" the WaxBee thing?  I assume you tried connecting the serial port. How did you do that physically?

If you know the serial protocol for this model (which is PL-550 if I recall correctly), we might see if it resemble one that is already in WaxBee and pick that one (maybe with minor modifications).   With WaxBee, you can do a special "Anchor" mapping which can allow you to have a perfect alignment in the center while being able to reach all the way to the edges for clicking buttons or menus (with the pen being unaligned in that region since you have to stay within the sensor area).

EDIT: I am not 100% sure, but it looks like PL-550's serial port uses "Wacom Protocol 4". Something WaxBee supports. It would be a matter of trying it a bit more to see what is required to make it work. If you really you were able to physically hook it up to a Teensy, then we are almost there!

EDIT2: I saw some driver that tries to auto-detect the tablet and looks for the letters "PL". In WaxBee, it will yield a "Tablet Unsupported" in "Debug mode".

Here the code that does this:

Code:
               // For now, only supports this "rigid" format:
                //
                // "~#UD-1212-R00 V1.5-4" (ends with /r)


                if(buffer[2] == 'U')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_ULTRAPAD;
                }
                else if(buffer[2] == 'K')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED; // ARTPADII is with ROM 1.3
                }
                else if(buffer[2] == 'C')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_PENPARTNER;
                }
                else
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;
                }

                if(buffer[15] != '1')
                {
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;
                }

                if(buffer[17] == '2')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_2;
                else if(buffer[17] == '3')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_3;
                else if(buffer[17] == '4')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_4;
                else if(buffer[17] == '5')
                        romVersion = ROM_VERSION_1_5;
                else
                        romVersion = TABLET_TYPE_UNSUPPORTED;

                if(romVersion == ROM_VERSION_1_3 && buffer[2] == 'K')
                        tabletType = TABLET_TYPE_ARTPADII;

...I can modify it to look for "P" (as in PL-550) and then we can add a new template for your tablet. Hopefully the rest will work, else I would need to hunt for some linux driver source code that supports PL-550 and see what they do special there.

Thanks for the reply!

So it USB. So maybe I have to install a virtual port? Then do the beeswax trick "p" letter to get the software driver to work.
That would be great! So what should I do on my side? Install the virtual ports.

The reason for the larger screen, is that is the size I had. Plus used 15 inch monitors are old and my luck the backlight will be dim. I could have bought a backlite online, but I just don't want to deal with ordering online. It was just a "try" this setup and I will use the extra space with my mouse or a midi controller for brush size and other setting.

Thanks!
Logged
bernard
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2584


pato mania


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 05:19:58 AM »

"Virtual port"?  I think you are misunderstanding some of the concepts.  Or I am completely not understanding what your are asking.

Quote
So it USB.

Not entirely sure what that sentence means.

-----------

Hum, so maybe let me try to explain with more clarity:

If your tablet is strictly USB (i.e. has no option to use a real serial connection) then WaxBee is not for you. Period.

WaxBee emulates a USB Wacom tablet but connects to the real tablet's serial port.  It essentially is a "Serial to USB converter" (exclusively for tablets). It cannot connect to a real USB tablet.  The Teensy/WaxBee sits between the tablet and the PC/Mac.

In case you missed this: WaxBee runs inside a small piece of hardware called the "Teensy". There is absolutely nothing running on the host machine (PC or Mac) other than a one-time configuration tool to setup the Teensy device. I mean, there are no drivers. The only thing running on the host machine (PC/Mac) are the standard Wacom drivers.

So... to be sure I understand your situation to help you out, can you answer these specific question?

#1- Is your tablet model number "PL-550" ?  Please state the exact model number if not exactly "PL-550".

#2- Does your tablet have a serial port connection (in addition to the USB connection)?  Maybe you could take a picture of the connectors and cables to help out.
Logged
Keifer
New Poster
*
Posts: 14



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 09:02:50 AM »

Tablet: Wacom Cintiq 15x - PL-550
USB connection from Cintiq to PC
Power outlet connected to Cintiq.
Other connections available but n/a in this case (DVI video connection n/a on tablet sensor)

Samsung 22" monitor with sensor under. Monitor has DVI and RGB (used in the application) and a power outlet

I am running windows 7 on my Acer aspire 5536 laptop dual core, 3gb ram, 1tb hardrive.

For some reason its not letting me attach images. tried a few times... :/
"Cannot access attachments upload path!"
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 09:09:59 AM by Keifer » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!